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Tinto Talks #66 - 4th of June 2025

Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will discuss the mechanics of Islam. In EUV, it is considered a Religious Group, as Christianity or Buddhism:
Islam.png

As usual, please consider all UI, 2D, and 3D art WIP.

As you see, three Religions compose the group: Sunnism, Shiism, and Ibadism:
Sunnism.png

Shiism.png

Ibadism.png

They share similar features, and then inside them is where we make the religious differentiation:
Islam panel.png

The first mechanic is Schools, an old companion from EU4, but that has been reworked in EU5:
Religious School.png

Muslim countries start with a School, which gives some modifiers:
Hanafi.jpg

As you can see, each School has a different view of the other. This is important because you can invite Scholars of Schools that are available for your branch of Islam, and also don’t have a negative opinion of your chosen School.

Because, yes, the old EU4 Scholars are also present in EU5, but they’re now inside a new category, the ‘Religious Figures’, which gives some more flexibility on how to use them:
Religious Figure.jpg

Scholar.png

Scholars are now characters that can travel through the Islamic world and be invited to work for you:
Invite Scholar.png

This unlocks the possibility to change the Main School of your country to that of the Scholar:
Change Main School1.png

Change Main School2.png

Change Main School3.png

In total, we have this number of schools, with some schools being available to more than one religion:
  • 10 Sunni:
    • Ḥanafī
    • Ḥanbalī
    • Mālikī
    • Shāfi'ī
    • Ẓāhirī
    • Ash'arī
    • Māturīdī
    • Aṯarī
    • Mu'tazilī
    • Wahhābī
  • 11 Sufi - Both for Sunni and Shia, except 3:
    • Bektashi
    • Chishtī (only for Sunnism)
    • Ḵalwātī
    • Mevlevi
    • Naqshbandī (only for Sunnism)
    • Qādirī (only for Sunnism)
    • Ṣafavī
    • Shāḏilī
    • Suhrawardī
    • Īsāwī
    • Dīn-i Ilāhī
  • 8 Shia:
    • Ismā'īlī
    • Ja'farī
    • Zaydī
    • Imāmīya
    • Nizārī
    • Musta'lī
    • Alevism
    • 'Alawī
  • 1 Ibadi:
    • Ibadi - only for Ibadi
    • It also has access to all the Sunni and Shia schools, but not the Sufi ones

The main currency for the religion is Piety, again a returning concept from EU4. Piety can go from a value of -100 to +100 (representing Mysticism or Legalism respectively), giving scaling benefits to the country depending on the direction.
Piety.png

Piety will be modified towards one extreme or the other mainly through events, although there are also some ways of adding a passive monthly tendency towards one direction, including privileges and cabinet actions. Another important aspect to mention regarding piety is the fact that to be able to invite a Scholar belonging to any of the Sufi schools, the country must already be leaning towards Mysticism.

There are a couple of actions in which the country can spend its piety to gain some benefits. A country can exchange piety for either stability or manpower, and both actions require being at 50 piety towards either direction, and move the value 40 towards the center.
Manpower Action.png

Stability Action.png

There is also the option to perform a pilgrimage to one of the Holy Sites, as long as they are owned by the country, an ally, or someone with good relations. Performing a pilgrimage will give a small increase in piety, as well as sending the ruler on a holy journey.
Pilgrimage.png

Another important aspect to mention is the fact that Muslim countries have access to some unique laws and policies:
Iqta Law.png

Nikah Policy.png

Shariah Law Policy.png

Implementing the Sharī'ah Law will unlock an extra law, the Sharī'ah Jurisprudence, with policies dependent on the country’s main school.
Shariah Jurisprudence.png

Finally, there are a couple of unique buildings available for Islamic countries:
Madrassa.png

Sufi Loge.png

And that’s all for today! Tomorrow is Thursday, which means that we will publish a new ‘Behind the Scenes’ video, and on Friday, we will take a look at the Ottomans and the Rise of the Turks situation!

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 
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All characters are considered adults at 16 years old, and they can marry at 21 years old. Take into account that this is because of compliance with PEGI and other equivalent rules.
Why dont you just make the game PEGI 18, but therefore historical accurate, many people married and got childeren before, I would accept a minium af 16 but 14 would be more accurate

Idea: Make a FSK/PEGI 18 free DLC with you deleting all unnessesary restrictions
 
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Making legal schools in Sunninsm equal to the branches of Shiism is plain wrong, Shia sects are much more meaningful and differentiating, ask any expert in Islam. We have tens of christian denominatons but we're stuck with 3 in Islam for some reason. They should be separate religions.
 
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All characters are considered adults at 16 years old, and they can marry at 21 years old. Take into account that this is because of compliance with PEGI and other equivalent rules.

Is it safe to assume that EUV won't dabble in offspring born out of wedlock?
 
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I dont think outright banning of all alcohol consumption is historically accurate as it wasnt too uncommon in both iran and ottomon empire to see people consuming alcoholic drinks for example many sufis and more lenient schools didnt consider drinking itself a problem but rather over consumption was considered a bad thing so i think it should be a school based ban rather then entirly relegious based
 
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definitely a complicated topic but look into the salafi movement, the aftermath of the failure of Arab socialism/pan-Arabism and the growth of a more religiously-oriented political scene/civil society, the muslim brotherhood and the outcome of the nahda

I don't know if we can say muslims have become more religious per se as I think most would disagree, but I would venture the scope and reach of religion in muslim societies has expanded through urbanization, modern education, globalization etc

And I don't think this is really unique to muslim societies actually, religiosity might be declining in western Europe and the anglosphere but not so much in Latin America, sub-saharan Africa, India, southeast Asia etc
Untrue about Lat-Am, with the exceptions of Perú, Bolivia and Ecuador (poor and underdeveloped) and Cuba (already high atheist % since the post-revolution that hasn't really increased) religiosity is decreasing in all other IberoAmerican countries. I would argue that religiosity is decreasing faster in LatAm than it is doing so in the US, in fact, where its largely stagnant.

As for the rise of salafism I would see it at as a consecuences of the failure of 'westernization' policies in mena countries due to cold war geopolitics and neocolonialism.
 
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Alevism under Shia is just flat out wrong, it is too heterodox to be considered neither Sunni or Ibadi, let alone Shia. Which is rather apparent from the practices themselves. There's no salah, no mosques, ancestor veneration is widespread, it's the spitting image of a populace trying to hold onto their shamanistic folk beliefs vehemently. I believe Din-i Ilahi, Alevism and Alawism are better off being classified under a 'Heterodox' umbrella.
Why not just make each of them their own branch of islam? They aren't similar to each other...
 
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Then that +1 for male spouses should probably be removed! Thanks for the info
I think of it as the game coding all characters having "Available spouses: 0" by default, which makes it make sense.
Imagine if non-ruler characters got into marriages all over the place...
 
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Bringing back the instant manpower buttons was a bad call. Overall a really disappointing dev diary when compared the the 4 Christian dev diaries.

Also is druze not considered part of the Islamic group? I can see why it wouldn't but am curious to how it's defined.
Agreed, the whole mystic vs legalist slider doesnt make any sense anyways but im wondering how the hell the insant manpower button works now that theres pops in the game.

Also its really funny, if druze is not under any of those groups then i dont think alawites and alevis should be either
 
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I think EU5 would be much better if we are not in a loop of "event -> -5k manpower" then "click religious button -> +5k manpower" or "event -> -50 stability hit" then "click religious button -> +50 stability". These types of instant benefit actions remove a bit the value of the actual currency they provide instantly and feel gamey imo.

We've belabored the point of instant gratification - hopefully we get the reward over time when they change the system; but I would like to add that also the spending should take place over the same amount of time, instead of magically just going from one value to another!
 
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Why not just make each of them their own branch of islam? They aren't similar to each other...
I agree, but if a classification/denomination is required then it is better to diverge clearly heterodox sects from the mainline counterparts. The whole Jurisprudence part is incredibly disappointing, too, so I just hope Paradox does their homework on non-Western parts better.
 
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The weirdest thing about the marriage part is that in CK3 characters can marry at 16 (and get engaged basically at birth) and personal development is way more important in that game.
 
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Honestly if Sharia has a selection of Jurisprudence under it, why would there even be Schools of Jurisprudence available under Schools? That selection should only be Schools of Theology, and Orders need to be separated from Schools of Theology.

Again I repeat, this is completely absurd. It's like having Jesuits and Order of Santiago as an exclusive selection with Roman Rite and each other. They don't have anything to do with each other! Even the current existing system in EU4 which is simplistic is better than this complete misinformation.

I had this same impression. This DD feels pretty messy, like they just threw together a bunch of ideas and forgot to streamline them.

Thankfully this one issue seems extremely easy to solve (as it's certainly going to be script-based) so worst case, I can change it myself.


Blame the US, I guess. In Sweden and Spain you can get married at 18.

Nah, the US has underages getting married too. Wikipedia says there have been a couple cases of 12yos being married, even.

Still, a very weird decision. CK3 has 16yos marrying already, and I can't believe Paradox ever got into trouble for it.
 
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