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Tinto Talks #67 - 11th of June 2025 - Shinto and Shogunate

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Flower_Marlin said:
View attachment 1316992

Wait so, the two Tenno flags are confusing me. Are those the northern and southern courts? If so, then in the Shinto IO which one represents the Imperial court? This is a tad bit confusing to me but interesting nonetheless.
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Yes, they are the two courts, and the one present in the Shinto panel is the general court no matter which one your clan supports.
 
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blue0china said:
Most of these mechanisms are quite good. However, categorising Shinto under Buddhism feels as awkward to me as grouping Haitian Vodou under Christianity. Couldn’t we establish a separate category for Shinto alone, assuming all other factors—such as its relationship with various Buddhist sects—remain unchanged? Perhaps it’s just my obsessive tendencies…
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No, the religious identity of Japan was clearly Buddhist, that's why it's in the Buddhist group.
 
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matfer13 said:
I hope that the Daimyos flags are still WIP, the mons look fine but there are too many flags with black mon on white background and vice versa I hope you keep adding colours(preferibly based on their map colour like in EU4), it shouldn't be a problem since most clans didn't have specific ones
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Black and white is quite a common combination for flags in Japan, that's why there's so many of them.
 
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ArchangelGabriel said:
I think it's be more natural English for the Shinto description should say "tied to and blended with" rather than "tied and blended with".
In the Imperial Court actions, "Get Marriage" sounds blunt and informal, something like "Obtain Marriage" would be better, and in the Religious Sects actions "Keep Kami and Buddha Balanced" is a bit verbose, I think "Balance Kami and Buddha" is cleaner.

Since you've got Shinbutsu Shugo as an advance, why not use that as the name for the religion?

Hachiman Worship should say "Hachiman is one of the most venerated divinities".

The Shogunate system looks very cool, do the Shugo provinces correspond to the province map mode? Can there only be one shugo daimyo in each province?
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Implemented the suggestions (although we prefer to keep Shinto as the name of the religion).
The Shugo system takes into account all the historical provinces, not only the ones corresponding to game provinces.
 
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Mangi Qahan said:
The shogunate had too few political layers. There should have been at least 3 Kanrei (管領) as the shogun's assistants, who were equivalent to the shogun's highest agents in areas that he could not directly govern.. In the 14th century, the shogunate usually appointed three clans as Kanrei.
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There is also something for the Kanrei.
 
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Enku7071 said:
View attachment 1317008

One question: does these actuins have cooldown period, and if so, how long would that be?
Also, does the amount of stuffs player can click and get scales up, and if so, with the player or with the target nations?
Thanks in advance.
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Yes, they have various cooldowns depending on the action, and they scale according to your own country.
 
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ArchangelGabriel said:
If the interaction to become Shogun is in the Shinto religion view, doesn't that mean that non-Shinto daimyo can't become Shogun? What if a daimyo converts to Christianity, like Omura Sumitada?
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The position of shogun is something tied directly to the authority of the court. A Christian Daimyo would need to find alternative ways of getting control of the shogunate.
 
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itoma_aikon said:
Hello,

I've been following the recent Q&A on the forum with great interest, and your answers have sparked a couple of follow-up questions regarding how some of Japan's more complex historical situations might be handled in-game.

1. On the aftermath of an Imperial Restoration:

Your response clarified that if the Emperor were to take direct control, the Shogunate IO would be dismantled, not taken over. That makes perfect sense.

This got me thinking about the historical precedent of the Kenmu Restoration. After overthrowing the Kamakura Shogunate, Emperor Go-Daigo didn't rule without a military apparatus. Instead, he established his own regional military governments to manage the samurai class. The most notable of these were the Ōshū Shōgunfu (Mutsu Shogunate) in the north, where Kitabatake Akiie assisted the young Prince Yoshinaga, and the Kamakura Shōgunfu in the east, where Ashikaga Tadayoshi supported Prince Narinaga.

So, my question is: Could the game mechanics support a scenario where, after a successful Imperial Restoration and the dismantling of the Ashikaga Shogunate, the Emperor could establish new, loyal military commands?

This could be a fascinating gameplay path. Instead of just removing the Shogunate system, the player achieving restoration would face a new challenge: building a new, Emperor-controlled military structure from scratch and trying to prevent these new "Imperial Shogunates" from becoming as powerful and independent as the one they just replaced. It would represent the historical difficulty of a civilian court trying to control a warrior class.

2. On the mechanics of a "split" Shogunate:

I found your solution for the two Emperors of the Nanboku-chō period (representing it as a general interaction with "the Court") to be very elegant.

That leads me to a related question about a split Shogunate. In several instances, Japan effectively had two rival shogunates vying for legitimacy. This happened during the Kannō Disturbance, the Ōnin War, and for decades after the Meiō Coup. During the Ōnin War, for example, both the Western and Eastern camps had their own "Shogun," appointed their own officials, and claimed to be the legitimate government.

My question is: How might the game mechanics represent a situation with two competing Shogunates?

Would this result in two parallel Shogunate IOs? For example:

  • Could both the Eastern and Western Shoguns appoint different daimyō as the Shugo (Military Governor) for the very same province, creating a "contested title" situation?
  • Would a player be forced to align with one Shogunate, with each having its own set of vassals and authority mechanics to manage?
  • How would such a "dual authority" conflict be resolved in-game? Would it purely be through military conquest, or could one Shogunate's legitimacy diplomatically collapse if it loses the support of key daimyō or the Imperial Court?
Understanding how the game might model this ultimate political chaos, where the very definition of "legitimate government" was fractured, would be fascinating.

Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions and engage with the community!
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Both ideas are interesting, but not sure if they could be easily tied with the current system. However, I'll save this for future reference.
 
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