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Tinto Talks # 7 -10th of April

Welcome to the seventh edition of Tinto Talks, where we talk about really super secret stuff, that is hidden behind the code name of ‘Project Caesar’.

Today we’ll look into what makes up the economy in Project Caesar. Obviously, we’ll go into much more detail on some of these aspects in later Tinto Talks. Right now though, we’ll go through the incomes and expenses of a country in the game.

Every month you have running incomes and expenses that need to be balanced, and if your balance is positive, your gold is increased and you can use that gold to invest in other things.

And with balancing incomes and expenses, of course there are sliders. Having some buttons for just a few possible options for taxes or expenses, like in Imperator, is not really fitting for a GSG with deep economical gameplay.

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Incomes

If we start with income, you have trade-related incomes, which is a system we will delve deep into in early May, as well as diplomatically related income. You also gain gold from provinces (not locations) that sell surplus food they can not store in their local market. Neither of these you directly control with any slider though.

The bulk of most countries' income will come from taxes though, and taxes in Project Caesar are really different than before. First of all, every estate has a possible tax base, a concept we will delve into much more detail next week. This you can attempt tax from them, but every estate has a maximum tax you can take from them, which depends on your laws and their privileges, and how much power they have in your country. The higher the tax you take from them, the lower their satisfaction equilibrium becomes. Some examples of tax affecting things include the Catholic religion which limits the taxes on Clergy, and also the ‘Auxilium et Consilium’ estate privilege for the nobles, which reduces the tax they pay.

Finally, for something that has existed in some older of our games, we have minting. Now what is that you may ask? Minting is the possibility to get more money by printing more coins. It just has the slight drawback of increasing your inflation the more you do it.

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Here we have the possibility to tax the commoners a fair bit more…


Expenses
We all do love gaining gold, but sadly we also have to spend it, and while we can reduce some of the spending, we can not completely avoid all of it.

First of all, we have the Cost of the Court. This is something that is directly correlated to the economic base of your country, and if you spend less gold than expected, your legitimacy, or equivalent applicable government power, will decrease over time, and the more you spend, the more legitimacy can increase. There are advances, laws, and other things that impact how much you need to spend here.

Then we have the cost for your standing army and navy, where spending less reduces their fighting capability. This is nothing new to our GSG games, so I am not sure why I need to mention this here.

Fort Maintenance is another common economic expense from our games, which is here as well. If you don’t pay, garrisons don’t tend to stick around.

Culture, this is an entirely new concept, which will become available in the Age of Renaissance, where you can invest money to get [TO BE TALKED ABOUT LATER], while also impacting your prestige.

You can also decide how much you wish to spend on your colonial charters, which is a new system we will talk about later this year.

Finally, the last thing you can impact with a slider is your investment in stability. The cost for how much your investments are needed depends on the size of your country, with different laws and societal values impacting it as well. Stability in itself ranges from +100 to -100, and will decay towards 0 on its own. There are two other ways to impact your stability gain, besides investing gold as mentioned here. One of them relates to the cabinet system, but another is a more long-term impact from how your country is built up, as it is based upon how many clergy pops you have of your state religion compared to the total population.

There are other expenses as you can see below, but one important thing to mention is that provinces that lack food will try to buy it from the local market.
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Maybe maybe we should cut down on our fleet, and maybe we don’t need ALL those forts. Our standing army of 200 brave footmen is enough!

Next week we’ll talk more in depth about how the tax base functions, how the food system works, and some other related issues.
 
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I hope that there are some regulators that can help sliders always stay on the "recomended" level, considering that I do not want to spend all my time on adjust them.

In EUIV, the corruption slider is the only slider that is not "0 or 100" but "0 to 100" in my game. It has two reasons:
For one, it is the only slider that I do adjust, so it's the only parameter I account for when considering how much income I'd like to have and balance it with the situation of corruption -- the amount of my thought rise in exponential order as the parameters/factors I need to concern rise
For another, in most case, I adjust it to meet zero level (corruption gain = 0). So there does be a level that I can refer to while adjusting.

BTW is there any way to apply for a beta test qualitification? (though it's too early to speak of this before alpha) Tinto seems to be making this game more and more interesting.
 
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I know this is not related to this tech talks but I am wondering if "project caesar" game will be in polish? I'm really hope so
From the other hands I can't wait for any information how colonization will works, because this is my favorite part of EU4
 
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Since infrastructure and building maintenance (apart from fort & court) have not become a macro expense this time either. Especially in today's times of crumbling infrastructure, the maintenance and reproduction costs of highly developed countries become particularly clear.

Are such maintenance expenses and thus late-game money sinks/blobbing obstacles represented elsewhere?
 
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Interesting. I love how you can influence taxes per estate, that's pretty cool!

Would maybe also be interesting if changing tax laws requires approval from a parliament-like body like it did in many kingdoms in this period.

Would also like it if fort garrisons are not separate from the army. In this period fort garrisons were armies led by generals just like any other field army. Would be cool if you had to move some of your regular troops into forts in order to occupy them. Would also be interesting during offensives cause you'd need to delegate soldiers to occupy forts, making your army smaller and making it progressively more difficult to continue the advance. Would also be interesting on the defensive since the further your enemy comes into and occupies your lands the smaller their armies become, making it easier to defeat them.
 
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One thing which has become less clear for me based on the distribution of the estates (and land) is whether this means that let's say we have 70% peasants, but 50% of these peasants are on their nobles' lands, so the "crown"/country doesn't benefit them (i.e., the crown can't tax someone directly if it's not on the crown's lands, at least at the start of this period).

In fact, having an option for the nobles to interact with their peasants directly while the crown has the crown's peasants adds another intra-country dynamic (escaped peasants not being restored to their former owners, for example).
 
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One thing which has become less clear for me based on the distribution of the estates (and land) is whether this means that let's say we have 70% peasants, but 50% of these peasants are on their nobles' lands, so the "crown"/country doesn't benefit them (i.e., the crown can't tax someone directly if it's not on the crown's lands, at least at the start of this period).

In fact, having an option for the nobles to interact with their peasants directly while the crown has the crown's peasants adds another intra-country dynamic (escaped peasants not being restored to their former owners, for example).
That could also be an interesting dynamic yeah!
 
I'd love to have something like this & feel like it's missing from EU4.

If I'm fighting a war in India, I'd want all these troops to be fully maintained. However, my troops in the Americas / Europe where there is peace and are only there in reserve, I wouldn't want at full maintenance.

Not sure how difficult it would be to do, but it could be similar to mothballing ships? I'd say it's more historically accurate as well, an army in conflict areas would always be prioritised?
 
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The only thing I don't like about Victoria 2 is that I never know the exact adverse effects of tax sliders on pops. Can this be made more transparent/obvious in Caesar?

tax impact on their satisfaction is
 
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LETS GO SLIDERS ARE BACK.

God this DD is SO UNINFORMATIVE but at the same time it introduces SO MANY new exciting stuff that you just teaased and won't be shown for weeks.... i hate the way you tease us johan. Its torture...

Colony charters, food buying and selling in markets, trade...


Johan when will you talk about how the economy itself works? As in, trade goods, production etc.

It seems that now you don't get income from any of that but instead your estates will get all the income from that and then your income will be based entirely on the estates taxation which is SUPER cool and realistic


EU5 shaping up to be the best PDX game by many many leagues. It has all i have ever wanted in a GSG.
Johan strategically edges us to hype up the game and its excellence. This truely, will be the greatest paradox game to-date. At least for custom scenarios. Each new diary i get happier and happier. We all do. There is no comet in sight, all of the wayobs are scared away, And the subject of paradoxian tinto is racking up age goals for a golden age.
 
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Johan, will provinces have set producing goods or will the player have some control over that? (Like, if I have farmland, could I produce some sort of grain for food or some other thing like cotton?)

And will there be a % chance to find which random good will be produced during the colonization of a province, like it was in Eu4?
 
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From a mechanical standpoint, I understand why we need Stability, but what exactly is this meant to represent? Compared to other sliders, I find this one very immersion breaking...
 
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I hope minting will have some depth to it. For example, minting higher quality gold( or silver) coins should have a reduced inflationary effect compared to lower quality mints. On that note, perhaps inflation and devaluation should be handled as two separate things.

Also, minting should also be directly connected to mining. Countries which have their own gold mines should have an easier time minting high quality gold coins, giving them an advantage there. Meanwhile, should a nation without its own gold/silver mines attempt to mint high quality coins, it should either see a shrinkage of circulating money supply or it could have its trade balance worsen due to the necessary import of precious metals from abroad. From the perspective of game design, perhaps the latter option is more doable.

Also, I recommend the currency to be named florin. After all, through the 14th and 15th centuries, a third of the worlds gold production and a fourth of its silver production took place in Hungary, and the gold coin minted in Hungary was the florin/forint. Not to mention the original florin, the "florentine gold" was already popular in Italy (and in all of Europe) even prior to that.

On a somewhat related note, will the "lucrum camarae" be in the game as a source of revenue for the crown? Perhaps it could be a choosable crown monopoly giving extra income with a drawback of a gradual longterm devaluation/inflationary effect.
 
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