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Update from the Developers

Greetings all,

At the risk of stating the obvious, the release of Graveyard of Empires has not gone the way we wanted. Today, I want to post a mini-retrospective that explains some of what happened leading up to the release, and how we plan on acting on the results of that and on subsequent feedback and reception moving forwards.

One of the most important parts of the pre-release process we perform in Studio Gold is the Go/No-Go meeting. This is where each discipline; QA, Tech, Design, Marketing, Business et al, present their perspective on the state of the game and expectations on the likely reception thereof. We do this so we’re all on the same page, and so we can jointly arrive at a consensus on whether to launch or not. In GoE’s case, while we identified some areas of uncertainty mostly relating to dev diary feedback, we agreed that there was nothing out of the ordinary here, and that a release at this stage was acceptable. I don’t want to diminish my role here or throw anyone under the bus: as Game Director I can overrule in either direction, and I did not - I did not see what I should have seen.

Collectively, and personally, we were quite clearly wrong. As an organization we were unaware of the issues present in this release, and this represents a serious need for some inward thinking on how we arrived at this decision, and how we reorganize ourselves to prevent it occurring again. I have few answers for you right now as we’re focusing on the short-term goals for putting Graveyard of Empires right, but we have no intention of sweeping this under the rug.

From a long term perspective, this is now the second release of a Country pack which has performed worse than expected. Review score is actually a surprisingly difficult metric to evaluate. It is better to think of it as a snapshot that, on balance, gives us an idea of how much of the community considers everything surrounding a release to be a net positive or negative. This can include price, quality, scope, overall opinion of a company, and many other things. What we tend to do is aggregate the key sentiments of negative and positive reviews and work out, on balance, where the main points for and against are. The two main negatives on Trial of Allegiance were, in first place the regional price adjustments in two specific markets, followed by scope. It’s a bit early to say for Graveyard of Empires, but first impressions are content direction & quality (as we’ve acknowledged), followed by scope.

Both regional pricing and content quality are things that I would hope are relevant only to the individual releases here. They’re localized. Scope, on the other hand, represents a clearer area where we need to offer more on a fundamental level. Scope in this context, is the nature of what we’re offering: focus trees, mechanics, 3d models; the whole package. Content-only releases are popular with some HoI fans, but on balance are not enough to resonate with the majority of the community. Once again, I don’t have an answer yet here, but we’re aware of it, and will be evaluating how to make these releases more exciting to more people.

And finally, in the short term, I want to address our plans for Graveyard of Empires. Beginning this week, we have a series of patches and updates planned for GoE as well as for the base game in order to both fix and improve content that you found lacking. I sincerely appreciate all those who have reached out with constructive suggestions. We have all hands on this endeavour right now.

Timeline:
  • 12th March - Patch (Operation HEAD)
  • 20th March - Patch (Operation KNEE)
  • Late March - War Effort (Operation SHOULDER)
  • April - Updates & Changes to GoE content

/Arheo

HOI-War-Effort-Roadmap-2025-2025.03.10.png
 
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Timeline:

  • 12th March - Patch (Operation HEAD)
  • 20th March - Patch (Operation KNEE)
  • Late March - War Effort (Operation SHOULDER)
  • April - Updates & Changes to GoE content
Where the fornication is the TOE?!
 
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Cavate: I do not own the DLC

I was 13 when I first started enjoying Paradox Games.

PDX History:
EU3: 486.4 Hours
EU4: 4,574 Hours
CK3: 737 Hours
CK2: 1,594 Hours
HOI4: 733 Hours
HOI 3: 36.1 Hours (Hard game to get into)
Vic 2: 588.5 Hours
Vic 3: 1,123.2 Hours

I have had a problem with PDX DLC for about half a year if not longer. I enjoyed the last HOI4 DLC, but I have been disappointed in this and other content DLC. I have moved on to other strategy games. Both PDX and Total War (Creative Assembly) have disappointed me; to the point that I am struggling to be interested anymore. I don't know if there had been a culture shift in the PDX that I knew 10 years ago, or if there is onset complacency. But it is a huge disappointment that community engagement has been left at the wayside.

Did anyone want this DLC?

Where was Public Relations in scoping what people actually wanted for HOI4?

How did/can it be done better going forward?

Mistakes will be picked up and corrected a year along the pipeline as usual. Apologies will be made. It stinks of other Public Companies that we all know and hate. I sit here dreading writing this post.; knowing the backlash I may bring myself. But, I know I need to write this. To know that at least someone has read what I currently feel about this DLC and other PDX titles DLC at the moment is enough for me.

Just because an area lacks content does not mean content that breaks/ruins the game which most people play is acceptable.

Focus where players play. Focus on what matters to us. Don't break the gameplay loop we all enjoy. That is what we come to PDX for (or at least what I did).

This is just poor design and execution.

I am done.

I wont buy another HOI4 DLC from now on until a review for what we want as players has been started (similar form Victoria 3 has started to do). For me a line in the sand has been drawn.

I will be editing this as a reread what I have written (I will indicate where I change anything as to not change the original text). This was my pure thoughts at the time of writing, and I understand that it lacks specific detail and will be keeping this as my live thoughts.

Edit: I would love to come back to this game and buy more content in the future. I just can't justify it to myself anymore.

I will be awake in 8 hours (please be gentle until I am alive to respond ;))
 
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The reworked Raj tree is for free in the base game. It's all the new alt-history content that's locked behind the dlc.
Nope, just opened the game again.

It's the old tree, with the fascist and communist paths are still the same ol' sucky one, no coherent foreign policy branch at all instead of some in the Netaji branch on the new tree.
 
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This is a sentiment I've seen in a few places. I think it boils down to what we release, and the nature of the game itself. Content for HoI is almost exclusively focus tree driven, and those narrative structures take a long time to develop compared to most of our other games. So rather than several smaller releases, we work around a yearly cycle of larger releases.
This implies to me that the focus tree model has poor cost-effectiveness, in that the ratio of development effort required to player interest in the output (and, thus, willingness to pay for a new DLC) is worse than for other content or mechanics.
(There's some obvious reasons why this might be the case: a good mechanic is generalizable to the whole game, while any given focus tree are specific to a particular country, often one that most players would likely only play once or a few times and many not at all)

In the short term, I'd just put this down as another argument for HoI5 redoing the concept currently fulfilled by focuses, but looking further ahead I'll speculate a bit on whether the whole concept of country pack DLCs should be abandoned, with new focus trees only bundled with larger expansions. Certainly each country pack seems less popular than the last one.
 
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i don't know what is wrong with the dlc, but if even more stuff is going to be added and things are going to get better, then this is really good, <3
 
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It is funny, the moment the dlc was released it had 75% good reviews. When I checked the next day it was 20%.

About the diary itself, I am not a "game director" but a simple consoomer and I realized very soon the dlc was going to be slop. I would give extensive feedback, but it basically goes down to being tired of all the content revolving around focuses trees that are always the same, lack of historicity and unsufferable memes in everything. You are developing the base game, you are not modders, you have access to the source code, do something with it.
 
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Also, I don't know if this is a bug or not but, if you set Greece to go Monarchist they almost always lose the Civil War and then are stuck with the base tree. If you could balance it so Monarchist Greece wins at least most of the time?

Same with communist Japan as AI. 99% they lose the war. Even if you send weapons as facist germany, to help them..
 
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One of the biggest problems has apparently still not been recognized. And that is all the bugs that came into the game from the other DLCs. It should be clear to everyone that GoE is a disaster. But the problems started much earlier.
Exactly this.

The BBA release was so bugged that even dozens of old bugs reappeared in the game, and even issues like the Field Marshal disappear bug still haven't been fixed, three years later.

And BBA is just one example; things did get a little better afterward, but only for a short time, we still have a large number of confirmed bugs from old DLCs. And at some point, you reach a point where playing just becomes less enjoyable because there are simply too many bugs.
 
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Exactly this.

The BBA release was so bugged that even dozens of old bugs reappeared in the game, and even issues like the Field Marshal disappear bug still haven't been fixed, three years later.

I didn't even realize that was a bug from BBA, thought it was a mod conflict and was just ignoring it. Still really annoying though having a bunch of faceless blobs as my FMs half the time though...
 
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On the topic of scope, have you all considered releasing countries individually? I think an “Iran Pack” or an “Argentina Pack” for $3-$4 each wouldn’t leave as much room for people to be confused or disappointed, compared to a more abstract dlc that happens to be limited in scope to focus trees, leaders, and art.
It won't work. Firstly, devs have issues with adapting old content, as we can see now with things like Turkey stealing states from Raj and Iraq, or newly added states being missed in old formable nations decisions. If things won't change, adding new focus trees with big time gaps would be ever bigger mess. Secondly, a significant portion of criticism about country packs has been along like "why no focuses for other South America countries", so devs should either deal with this rants on reviews or schedule other countries' trees to not disappoint anyone, making these single tree DLCs senseless.
 
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Ah, another "oopsie" thread. I am sure some people will take this as a good sign and you being honest with the community. To me, this thread is the bare minimum, especially since it is not the first of its kind. I really trusted you when you said you were increasing the speed with releases of content while keeping quality. Well, the speed of content releases has not increased and is much slower than this of other PDS titles. Stellaris has great reworks of core mechanics so does Vicky. HoI's air system is still awful, navy is also a pain in the ass most of the times. But we have memy elephants and weird alt-history paths.

PDS as a company has grown too fast and went out of control. Empire of Sin is still a disaster to this day, Vicky3 was awful, HoI definitely has had its ups and downs. The only thing that has improved greatly over time was the price of those DLC and new concepts to melk players. I really thought that with the implementation of the expansions pass you would ensure quality of the releases to establish that system among the playerbase. Well, I don't think anyone will ever buy an expansion pass again. Well, maybe the 3D-prototype vehicles will make a difference, they are about to be released in...3rd quarter 2025?? Almost a year after Götterdämmerung came out.
 
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I think it's practical and interesting to make a decision for Syria to rebuild the Greater Syria by annex Alexandretta, Lebanon, Palestine, Sina peninsula, Iraq, and the two province of Turky beside Syria (Diabaker, and Gaziantype).

BTW, Please make Caspian Sea able to sail. It's also advisable. ;)
 
After the South America DLC, paradox also apologized and announced four War Effort operations. I am wondering, Operation Hamster is already nine months late. I guess it's not coming anymore, is it?


Planned were: Each month 1 Operation.
Operation Grouse – Released in April
Operation Badger – May (Took place in June)
Operation Davidson – June (Maybe took place on August 29th, but was never officially named)
Operation Hamster – July (Did not happen)


Will there still be an Operation Hamster? I mean..
It's a Hamster. It must be one of the best Operations.
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Any plan to boost Italian AI capabilities to win the war with Ethiopia, so Italy can prevent Ethiopia's joining of alliais.??
Ethiopia already has way too many nerfs. It doesn't need Italy getting EVEN MORE buffs. I have more fun playing Aussa than Ethiopia, as Aussa has no nerfs and a good National Spirit.

In fact, this brings me to another problem with the last few DLCs: lots of countries have National Spirits that heavily nerf the country and make it less fun to play.
 
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This implies to me that the focus tree model has poor cost-effectiveness, in that the ratio of development effort required to player interest in the output (and, thus, willingness to pay for a new DLC) is lower than for other content or mechanics.
(There's some obvious reasons why this might be the case: a good mechanic is generalizable to the whole game, while any given focus tree are specific to a particular country, often one that most players would likely only play once or a few times and many not at all)
This just makes it even more frustrating when PDX doesn't add new mechanics that players have been asking for, like a universal white peace mechanic, the ability to trade for land, having more control over AI-controlled puppets (like automatically raising autonomy, creating formable nations, taking Decisions for them, or choosing what Focus they take), the ability to refit peace-deal-acquired ships, custom lists of unit names, etc.

If PDX would rather put less effort into new Focus Trees, then why not add more universal game mechanics that people have asked for, or better yet, fix bugs that people have been telling them to fix?

Sorry if I sound irate or disrespectful, I just don't understand the logic here.
 
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Have you considered creating a tool for making focus trees? It seems like there could be tons of saved work if that's where most of your effort is put for new content.

It'd be a fantastic modding tool as well.
 
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Exactly this.

The BBA release was so bugged that even dozens of old bugs reappeared in the game, and even issues like the Field Marshal disappear bug still haven't been fixed, three years later.

And BBA is just one example; things did get a little better afterward, but only for a short time, we still have a large number of confirmed bugs from old DLCs. And at some point, you reach a point where playing just becomes less enjoyable because there are simply too many bugs.
This....

I'd say that many negative reviews are from this,. Then we historically get an acknowledgement of issues and a few "non base bugs" fixed (that modder can fix)....And the technical debt increases.

Or to quote the matrix " you've been down this road Neo. You know where it leads"
I do hope we get a good bugfix going forward, but I am very cautiously optimistic.
 

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I think it would be useful to consider releasing each DLC in Open Beta to pre-order customers. Every DLC launch has had Day One bugs. Why not just formalise the existence of these bugs by being clear that Day One is open beta?

That is effectively how it works now except the messaging from Paradox pretends otherwise. It grates on the community because we keep getting told that the DLC complete and polished at launch when it never has been.
 
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