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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #121 - Maps Maps Maps

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Greetings fellow map-starers! I am Lufthansi, one of the narrative designers on Victoria 3, and I’m here to talk about the upcoming map and pop setup changes for Sphere of Influence. Since there’s quite a few of them, let’s just jump straight into it.

Persia and Central Asia
The lands of Iran and Turan have gotten a much needed facelift for the upcoming expansion.
Say goodbye to the conspicuously modern-looking looking Afghanistan (bar Wakhan dongle) of 1.6, and say hello to your new best friends in the region: the emirates of Kabul, Kandahar, and Herat. These three Pashtun realms will be the main contenders for the struggle to unify Afghanistan under one banner, though the Uzbek khanates of Maimana and Kunduz might give them a run for their money.

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To their immediate south, the Khanate of Kalat’s influence in the region has grown considerably, with an enlarged Makran now starting as a Kalati vassal, standing in for the plethora of local Baluchi tribes that owed the Kalati Khans their allegiance.
Further east, the Sikh Empire’s borders have been redrawn to better reflect the situation in 1836 and the Nawabate of Bahawalpur has been established on the left bank of the Sutlej river. In the Eastern Hindu Kush, Chitral emerges as a new power, representing both itself and dozens of smaller statelets and tribes such as Hunza and the yet-Islamised ‘Kafiristan’.

In Central Asia proper, borders have been polished and shifted around slightly, with the most notable addition being the establishment of a decentralised Turkmen area, representing various Turkmen tribes outside Khivan control, chief among them the Tekke.

Persia has seen its starting territories further reduced, losing control of more of its coastline to Arab and Baluchi rulers and having to contend with a new vassal: the influential Sheikhdom of Muhammara, conveniently parked right on top of the country’s major oil reserves. (Surely nothing bad will ever come of this). Oh, and Persia is now blue (dabadee dabadi).

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In terms of state regions, there’s quite a few new ones, and we have tried our very best to toe the line between what is historically appropriate and what is recognizable to the modern eye. The state regions represent a mixture of historical provinces, borders, and cultural areas, so while the initial setup might look alien to some, to all you Durand line fans out there, I say: ‘fear not, there is still a way’.

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The old pop setup of Persia and Central Asia included many oddities, like the vast majority of Persian Jews and Armenians being slaves for some reason. This has now been rectified, and pop numbers and cultures for the entire region has been reworked, working off a motley collection of primary and secondary sources of varying trustworthiness as well as a good pinch of creative licence. You will also find three new cultures added to the region: Luri, Mazanderani, and Chitrali, each with their own accompanying country/releasable.

The Russian Empire
Another big change this patch will come in the form of a map rework to the Russian Empire and its surroundings. A whole lot of new states have been added to the game, and even more remoulded to better reflect the international, cultural, and administrative divisions of the time.

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Accompanying this state rework is another pop setup change. Primarily based on downscaled and modified data from the 1897 census, it adds a number of new cultures to the game, such as the Mordvins, Bashkirs, Chuvash, Udmurts, and the Buryat.

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The Baltic Governorates under General-Governor Carl Magnus von der Pahlen will also make their debut in this patch. Starting as a German-cultured puppet under the Russian Empire, it is there to reflect the unique cultural and political situation of the three governorates of Estonia, Livonia, and Courland.

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Of course, no map rework is complete without a slew of new releasables to populate it. I’m not going to list them all here, so feel free to look around and identify your own favourites!

East Asia
Sphere of Influence will also see the arrival of a much requested religion, namely Confucianism. Confucianism will start out as the state religion of China, Korea, and Vietnam, though they all retain large Buddhist minorities. (In Vietnam’s case with the Buddhists making up the majority of the population.) Due to a change in the countries’ law setup, China and Vietnam will both start out by tolerating their Buddhist subjects, whereas the Buddhist practitioners in Korea will be persecuted by the state, representing Korea’s historical anti-Buddhist movement.

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America and Australia
To all those still grieving the loss of Noongar some patches back, I bring good tidings: Noongar is back, and it brought some friends! Wati and Miring together help reduce Anglo control over the Outback, better reflecting the limited control settlers then enjoyed over the country’s interior.

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North America is also getting a bit busier, with the addition of the Seminoles of Florida (at long last), the Salish and Bannocks of the Western Plains, and the Athabaska of Alaska.

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The addition of the Seminole is also accompanied by a new starting Journal Entry for the United States, ‘The Seminole Wars’, detailing the grim conquest and eventual displacement of the Seminole peoples of Florida by the United States.

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Miscellaneous Changes
Some other changes include the beautification of the Southern Bessarabian strip ceded as part of Romania’s ‘All for One’ Journal Entry, and the addition of more straits around the Tierra del Fuego to sort out some colonisation wonkiness, which would cause some individual island provinces to not be colonised by either Argentina or Chile.

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Well, that’s all for now! I hope you are all as excited for Sphere of Influence as we are! See you all in the next developer diary where WHO WILL DO WHAT?

Editor's Note: We left this because it's funny. But next week the ‘WHAT’ our diary will be is the Changelog for 1.7 and Sphere of Influence, and the ‘WHO’ is writing it is Mikael! With that, have a Happy Thursday all!
 
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There should be some Manchu minors in Amur and Primorye, representing the Chinese-speaking people in Russian occupied territory.

They were all murdered if my memory does not cheat me.
 
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New pops being added will always technically worsen performance, but the number of pops added this patch should not result in a noticeably slower game. At least we have been unable to detect this on our tests.
Let me translate this to English:

New pops being added will always technically worsen performance, We know that adding new pops will worsen performance but we did it anyways to torture your CPU, but the number of pops added this patch should not result in a noticeably slower game. although we did pray that players don't notice. At least we have been unable to detect this on our tests. We didn't play patch 1.7 a lot because we are busy fixing bugs that should have been fixed last month.
 
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Always glad to see more unique stuff for the USA. I always felt like in Victoria II they didn't have much unique stuff aside from the Civil War, so this is a definite improvement.
 
Im Not super Fan of adding ever more states... V3 is currently not really build around having many big states...

Employment
Arable land
Decrees
Military
Migration
Mali
Infamy of conquest

Like... The Baltic's are now 6 states ? Really?
I understand it can be fun if one one's to play as Lithuania to have twi instead of one...
But in all my games as Germany or Russia, I Found them already small enough to be almost a burden.

And now we have twice that much ?
 
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Since there is a Siberia releasable country in the historical position of Siberian Khanate, the far east culture should not be called as Siberian.
 
Im Not super Fan of adding ever more states... V3 is currently not really build around having many big states...

Employment
Arable land
Decrees
Military
Migration
Mali
Infamy of conquest

Like... The Baltic's are now 6 states ? Really?
I understand it can be fun if one one's to play as Lithuania to have twi instead of one...
But in all my games as Germany or Russia, I Found them already small enough to be almost a burden.

And now we have twice that much ?
Fairly speaking, the cost of decrees should drop after 2 or 3 dlcs since there’d be more states.

Vicky3 does not make the best use of their state mechanic.
 
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I have quite a bit of feedback on this developer diary so let me just get out my notes... ahem.

1. While I love the Central Asia setup, would it be possible to consider the splitting of Turkmenia into multiple decentralized nations reflective of their historical clans? These were the Teke, Yomut, Saryk, Chowdur, and Ersari. It would feel much more naturally better if these were represented.

2. Please consider adding the Georgian principalities! In one of the previous developer diaries, Abkhazia was added as a tag, and I'd love to see that tag utilized since it had quite a lot of autonomy from Russia! Same with Mingrelia and Svaneti!

3. Similarily, please consider adding some of the Kurdish principalities, especially since neither Persian nor the Ottomans had fully direct control over the Kurdish areas, where many states like Baban, Bokhti, Ardalan, Soran, Bitlis and Hakkari had considerable autonomy from the Ottomans and Persia.

4. Since Kashmir was recently touched, I'd love if Ladakh, or Maryul as it was known then, to be split off as an independent Tibetan nation from the Sikh Empire, since it wouldn't be owned by them until the mid-1840s following a war between the Dogras of Jammu (a Sikh subject), and the Qing dynasty and their subject of Tibet.

5. I'd love if Las Bela or Kharan could be represented as well, especially considering Las Bela was independent from Kalat altogether.

6. Please rename Persian Kurdistan to Ardalan, as that name is more thematically appropriate.

7. Please rename Chorasmia to Khwarazm or Khorazm to be less antiquated.

8. Southern Turkestan needs a different name, and I'm not sure what it should be, but it should certainly not be that.

9. While I appreciate the new cultures, I'd appreciate if a few more were added, such as the Karakalpak or the Qashqai.

10. Please consider breaking up North Caucasian more. Such an amalgamation really looks odd now if we have a Circassian and a Chechen culture, so please consider breaking that culture further up.

11. Likewise, please consider breaking Ugrian up, either break it up completely, or use it for the Khanty and Mansi, and split of Nenets and Komi. That would be greatly appreciated.

12. Can the Baltic Governorates be properly split up into Estonia, Livonia, and Courland? I know on a state region level they were split up, so it wouldn't be hard for them to be split up. I'd also appreciate for them to get content relating to Estonian and Latvian nationalism arising. It is weird on many historical factors to keep them together since they functioned separately internally.

13. Going into the Russian releasable nations, I'd appreciate if the Mari were represented too, since all of the other groups in the area like the Chuvash, Tatar, Bashkir, Udmurt, and Mordvin have their own states, but Mari El has been left out, and I'd appreciate if they were here too.

14. Tungus should be releasable from Okhotsk, not from Upper Yeniseysk. If you need a releasable there, Siberia should work fine.

15. North Caucasia should be a formable for the North Caucasian states, as it gives them something to do.

16. I'd appreciate if the new Abkhazia tag would be releasable as well.

17. Can Azerbaijan also be a releasable from Persia's northern territories? Since Armenia stretches across borders, I'd appreciate if Azerbaijan can do the same, especially considering that's what they did in Victoria 2.

18. Idel-Urel and Siberia should also be formable by their respective nations.

19. Sapmi should be able to be released from Kola.

20. Can Kuban be represented in the Russian states of Krasnodar and Stavropol instead of the Don Cossacks? That would be appreciated.

21. If the Komi and Nenets are split off, I'd appreciate if they too got their own releasable nations, Komi in Vologda, and Nenetsia in Nenetsia and Ob.

22. Khanty-Mansi has an H in the name that is currently not there for some reason.

23. Could a Volga-German releasable state be considered in Saratov?

24. If willing, I'd love to see the Bukey Horde be represented in the Russian parts of Western Kazakhstan.

25. Can Wati be renamed to Aṉangu? I know the usage of endonyms for native groups is more prevalent in Victoria 3, so I'd love to see the endonym for that area be used as well, since that's what the cultural bloc where the Wati are use.

26. If the other aboriginal tags are decentralized, can we consider decentralizing Kaurna too? They are ahistorically centralized, and I'd love to see them be properly represented.

27. In North America, I'd love to see the Athabaska tag include Yukon and the Northwest Territories, with the Inuit parts of all three state regions and Nunavut being given to a new Nunavut decentralized nation.

28. The Seminole should own more land in Southern Florida.

29. I'd like to see the Bannock reduced in size in Western Idaho so that when the Shoshone are added, they can have their part of Idaho as well.

30. Niimíipuu should be extended into Northwestern Oregon and Western Washington to represent the entire group that the term represents.

31. If possible, I'd love to see a Cherokee unrecognized nation in Georgia be there and given some flavor so that the US can have more to do during the Trail of Tears. Same with a Chickasaw unrecognized nation.

32. Finally, please consider adding a releasble nation for Alaska, as for the Russian-American Company at first, and maybe it switches culture to Yankee if it gets sold to the United States and then adopts the currently used flag.

That's a lot of feedback, but I hope it can be utilized!

- Yasha

That sure is quite the list. Forgive me if I don't reply to all of this.

1. We could, but that would be a level of granularity too much in my opinion, especially since splitting them up would have little to no effect on gameplay.
2. Georgian principalities were considered, but omitted due to them lacking in size and significance.
3. Considered, but decided against in the end. Depicting them without accompanying narrative content felt a bit off, so they never came to be.
5. If we were to represent all the vassals and tributaries of the Khans of Kalat the area would look... insane. Abstractions wins the day again.
6,7,8. Persian Kurdistan is known as just Kurdistan within Persia, both then and now, Chorasmia was the main English word used for the region in Victorian times, and Turkestan / Southern Turkestan was a common name for the region in question, especially at the time of the Uzbek khanates. It was also the name of an administrative Afghan province centered on Mazar-i-Sharif, that included large parts of Northern Afghanistan.
9,10,11. Considered, but felt too granular.
12. They could have been, but were united for gameplay reasons. In any case there was one Governor-General overseeing all of them, so it did not feel too ahistorical to unite them.
28. To my knowledge South Florida was not inhabited by the Seminole at the time, but was rather a reservation they got pushed to in the 1840s.

As for the ones I did not reply to, the issue is usually that while, yes, you can easily argue that certain cultures are distinct from others, and that they should have their own culture, we have to abstract at a certain level, or the game would be quite unplayable.
 
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Always glad to see more unique stuff for the USA. I always felt like in Victoria II they didn't have much unique stuff aside from the Civil War, so this is a definite improvement.
True, the US was pretty badly done in Vic2, like merging states like South Carolina+Georgia, New England, and Nevada+Utah. Granted with Vic2 it was done because of the technical limitations of having only one RGO per province. I'm glad that limitation was removed in the base design decisions for Vic3 and they enabled the US to have all the states properly represented.
 
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It’s definitely a shocking news to have Confucianism, since Tinto just claimed that Confucianism would not be an actual religion in their Project Caesar.

But I agree that the religion in China is really a difficult task. Anyway, ready to play with it.
I’m very interested in that what the references or sources PDS use are. I myself am familar with the religious status in east Asia but absolutely have no idea how to divide them into Confucian and Buddist.

In my view, over 99% of pops can not be exactly divided. The rest are monks.

No offense.
 
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I notice that Outer Manchuria has been divided, so there’re two proposals:
1. Since Primorye is not a part of Russia in 1836, can it be renamed to some more neutral form?
2. Can northern Manchuria and Southern Manchuria be renamed to Heilongjiang and Jilin, since Outer Manchuria has no longer been called as Manchuria?
Hmm. Perhaps. I'd need to ponder a bit on the options here, but this might (emphasis on might) get changed sometime after the release of 1.7.
 
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28. To my knowledge South Florida was not inhabited by the Seminole at the time, but was rather a reservation they got pushed to in the 1840s.
You're correct on this. The land in southern Florida was made part of their reservation in 1842 after the game's start.
 
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In terms of state regions, there’s quite a few new ones, and we have tried our very best to toe the line between what is historically appropriate and what is recognizable to the modern eye. The state regions represent a mixture of historical provinces, borders, and cultural areas, so while the initial setup might look alien to some, to all you Durand line fans out there, I say: ‘fear not, there is still a way’.​

(...)

Another big change this patch will come in the form of a map rework to the Russian Empire and its surroundings. A whole lot of new states have been added to the game, and even more remoulded to better reflect the international, cultural, and administrative divisions of the time.
That's... bad. State lines isn't just about historical and modern boundaries, it's also very heavily a gameplay thing. Splitting states into more nerfs edicts there, creates more information to keep track of, probably slows down the game a bit, and creates more busywork, especially with managing local goods. I don't want a more accurate map, if it means a state with barely any population is split into two, that just make it less enjoyable to play there.

I already avoid playing as USA due to the absolute spam of small states on the West Coast, which exist solely to make star number go up, and are deeply annoying to deal with. Please don't do that to more countries. I really doubt splitting Siberian states makes playing Russia more fun, or is needed for any reason.

Overall I feel negative about what I am seeing here. Please take a gameplay "less is more" approach to states too.
 
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There should be some Manchu minors in Amur and Primorye, representing the Chinese-speaking people in Russian occupied territory.

They were all murdered if my memory does not cheat me.
There are some, but they are outnumbered by other Siberian peoples in Outer Manchuria and therefore not displayed on the culture map.
 
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while we're on the topic of fixing borders, can we please get a fix on the various rivers in the game that are either misplaced like the rio uruguay that has still somehow moved east of the uruguay/argentine border despite a dlc for the region passing it by or the mekong especially on the laotian-thai border, the french/german border not aligning with the rhine in-game or rivers entirely missing in places outside of europe like on the western border of transvaal or the daugava in latvia. there are several places like this around the map, where the states are correct and even follow the real rivers, sometimes like in the case of uruguay even with a slightly visible riverbed in the map when you zoom in, with just the actual river being moved somewhere else
i know it wont impact the gameplay in any real way but it pains me to look at the beautiful map you have and seeing these things wrong
 
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Hmm. Perhaps. I'd need to ponder a bit on the options here, but this might (emphasis on might) get changed sometime after the release of 1.7.
It would be very sweet of u to review this! Since your Chinese localization externals changed the translation of “Northern Manchuria” to “Southern Manchuria”, making there were two “Southern Manchuria” in Chinese localization 1.6, I recommend you to give them some distinguishable texts so that it won’t confuse their terrible vision and uncontrolled hands. :p

It’s a joke not targeting PDS so let it pass then. I’m very glad that u’d considered this since a dynamic state’s name mechanic has not been implemented.
 
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Maps maps maps!

Love those maps.

Shouldn't the US and Mexican control in America be further reduced? (akin to the Hail Columbia mod).

Currently, and even with the update, seems a little bit to easy to control the entire modern USA as soon as the 1850s.
Colonization needs to be slowed down in general not sure how much we'll get to that end before decentralized states become playable though
 
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The more I think about this, the stranger our current solution seems. A state split might be a bit much right now, but I will see it renamed following the release of 1.7.
Hopefully I'm not too late for this, but if you're going to rename the state instead of splitting it, might I suggest rename it to "The Maritimes" or "Maritime Provinces" instead? Everyone from here refers to the grouping of Atlantic provinces this way anyways, and would be more fair to the other two provinces :)


EDIT: Bonus points if it renames to "Acadie" if France or Quebec owns it!
 
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I don't exactly know what naming scheme you're going for, are states supposed to be named after the most notable city in them or by a more commonly known name for that region? Since there's Kola instead of Murmansk and Bessarabia instead of Kishinev. If it's not that first one then the Kuopio state in Finland should probably be called Savo or Savonia instead. Oulu should be Lapland.
 
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