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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #121 - Maps Maps Maps

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Greetings fellow map-starers! I am Lufthansi, one of the narrative designers on Victoria 3, and I’m here to talk about the upcoming map and pop setup changes for Sphere of Influence. Since there’s quite a few of them, let’s just jump straight into it.

Persia and Central Asia
The lands of Iran and Turan have gotten a much needed facelift for the upcoming expansion.
Say goodbye to the conspicuously modern-looking looking Afghanistan (bar Wakhan dongle) of 1.6, and say hello to your new best friends in the region: the emirates of Kabul, Kandahar, and Herat. These three Pashtun realms will be the main contenders for the struggle to unify Afghanistan under one banner, though the Uzbek khanates of Maimana and Kunduz might give them a run for their money.

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To their immediate south, the Khanate of Kalat’s influence in the region has grown considerably, with an enlarged Makran now starting as a Kalati vassal, standing in for the plethora of local Baluchi tribes that owed the Kalati Khans their allegiance.
Further east, the Sikh Empire’s borders have been redrawn to better reflect the situation in 1836 and the Nawabate of Bahawalpur has been established on the left bank of the Sutlej river. In the Eastern Hindu Kush, Chitral emerges as a new power, representing both itself and dozens of smaller statelets and tribes such as Hunza and the yet-Islamised ‘Kafiristan’.

In Central Asia proper, borders have been polished and shifted around slightly, with the most notable addition being the establishment of a decentralised Turkmen area, representing various Turkmen tribes outside Khivan control, chief among them the Tekke.

Persia has seen its starting territories further reduced, losing control of more of its coastline to Arab and Baluchi rulers and having to contend with a new vassal: the influential Sheikhdom of Muhammara, conveniently parked right on top of the country’s major oil reserves. (Surely nothing bad will ever come of this). Oh, and Persia is now blue (dabadee dabadi).

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In terms of state regions, there’s quite a few new ones, and we have tried our very best to toe the line between what is historically appropriate and what is recognizable to the modern eye. The state regions represent a mixture of historical provinces, borders, and cultural areas, so while the initial setup might look alien to some, to all you Durand line fans out there, I say: ‘fear not, there is still a way’.

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The old pop setup of Persia and Central Asia included many oddities, like the vast majority of Persian Jews and Armenians being slaves for some reason. This has now been rectified, and pop numbers and cultures for the entire region has been reworked, working off a motley collection of primary and secondary sources of varying trustworthiness as well as a good pinch of creative licence. You will also find three new cultures added to the region: Luri, Mazanderani, and Chitrali, each with their own accompanying country/releasable.

The Russian Empire
Another big change this patch will come in the form of a map rework to the Russian Empire and its surroundings. A whole lot of new states have been added to the game, and even more remoulded to better reflect the international, cultural, and administrative divisions of the time.

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Accompanying this state rework is another pop setup change. Primarily based on downscaled and modified data from the 1897 census, it adds a number of new cultures to the game, such as the Mordvins, Bashkirs, Chuvash, Udmurts, and the Buryat.

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The Baltic Governorates under General-Governor Carl Magnus von der Pahlen will also make their debut in this patch. Starting as a German-cultured puppet under the Russian Empire, it is there to reflect the unique cultural and political situation of the three governorates of Estonia, Livonia, and Courland.

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Of course, no map rework is complete without a slew of new releasables to populate it. I’m not going to list them all here, so feel free to look around and identify your own favourites!

East Asia
Sphere of Influence will also see the arrival of a much requested religion, namely Confucianism. Confucianism will start out as the state religion of China, Korea, and Vietnam, though they all retain large Buddhist minorities. (In Vietnam’s case with the Buddhists making up the majority of the population.) Due to a change in the countries’ law setup, China and Vietnam will both start out by tolerating their Buddhist subjects, whereas the Buddhist practitioners in Korea will be persecuted by the state, representing Korea’s historical anti-Buddhist movement.

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America and Australia
To all those still grieving the loss of Noongar some patches back, I bring good tidings: Noongar is back, and it brought some friends! Wati and Miring together help reduce Anglo control over the Outback, better reflecting the limited control settlers then enjoyed over the country’s interior.

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North America is also getting a bit busier, with the addition of the Seminoles of Florida (at long last), the Salish and Bannocks of the Western Plains, and the Athabaska of Alaska.

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The addition of the Seminole is also accompanied by a new starting Journal Entry for the United States, ‘The Seminole Wars’, detailing the grim conquest and eventual displacement of the Seminole peoples of Florida by the United States.

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Miscellaneous Changes
Some other changes include the beautification of the Southern Bessarabian strip ceded as part of Romania’s ‘All for One’ Journal Entry, and the addition of more straits around the Tierra del Fuego to sort out some colonisation wonkiness, which would cause some individual island provinces to not be colonised by either Argentina or Chile.

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Well, that’s all for now! I hope you are all as excited for Sphere of Influence as we are! See you all in the next developer diary where WHO WILL DO WHAT?

Editor's Note: We left this because it's funny. But next week the ‘WHAT’ our diary will be is the Changelog for 1.7 and Sphere of Influence, and the ‘WHO’ is writing it is Mikael! With that, have a Happy Thursday all!
 
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1. Not a fan of the new Polish provinces.
2. Add Congress Poland, come on. I can understand your point about level of autonomy, though. Not a hill I'm willing to die on. Point one, though, definitely is.
 
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Now that Alaska doesn't start as fully controlled by Russia (good) the border with Canada looks strange (bad). Northern Canada could use the same treatment as Australia and start out as decentralized states (but claimed by Canada to avoid border gore).
 
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Are the culture groups in North America changed? I feel like there were more culture groups in NA, I only really know about the PNW, I'd love to see the Takelma, Klamath, and others be represented. There were wars against the natives there too, such as the Rogue river wars.

That area was very, very, loosely under the control of the British and American flags; it was arguably independent, which I feel is unfortunately not very represented in the game. There isn't really a 'sort of control, on paper' type of state.
 
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I don't exactly know what naming scheme you're going for, are states supposed to be named after the most notable city in them or by a more commonly known name for that region? Since there's Kola instead of Murmansk and Bessarabia instead of Kishinev. If it's not that first one then the Kuopio state in Finland should probably be called Savo or Savonia instead. Oulu should be Lapland.
It's no great secret that our state names are a bit all over the place, heh. In the case of Kuopio and Oulu specifically the names were chosen based on the historical provinces of Kuopio and Oulu.
 
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East Asia
Sphere of Influence will also see the arrival of a much requested religion, namely Confucianism. Confucianism will start out as the state religion of China, Korea, and Vietnam, though they all retain large Buddhist minorities. (In Vietnam’s case with the Buddhists making up the majority of the population.) Due to a change in the countries’ law setup, China and Vietnam will both start out by tolerating their Buddhist subjects, whereas the Buddhist practitioners in Korea will be persecuted by the state, representing Korea’s historical anti-Buddhist movement.


Fantastic change, much better than having everyone be Buddhist. Though I do wonder what the basis is for these Buddhist vs. Confucianism percentages. A better solution would maybe to represent Chinese folk religion as "Shendao/Shenxian" and consider Confucianism and Taoism as part of it.

it's just ridiculous. confucianism should be a political system with its own mechanics, and religions of china should be various flavors of buddhism, taoism and shamanic practices
That's not exactly correct. Confucianism has a very much implied belief system in Tian/Heaven that is inherent to it, as well as mandated religious practices that come as part of the belief system. Confucianism does not only uphold a correct form of state governance but also a correct individual behaviour, a moral framework, religious practices that need to be upheld and a belief in Tian and Shangdi- all of this forms a theology. Confucianism also has a cosmology, that is shared with other Chinese native religions.
It's also important to note that many Chinese individuals throughout history, both scholars and emperors, called themselves exclusively Confucian and criticised or repressed Buddhism and Daoism.

It's a bit problematic to truly say that a given part of China is a "Confucianist" but I assume they're grouping in all Chinese folk religion under the framework of Confucianism, which is better than grouping them all under Buddhism.
 
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Question but is there any content planed for the baltic governorates themselves?, like in terms of it becoming independent, or changing it's laws or in relation to primary cultures?
 
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New pops being added will always technically worsen performance, but the number of pops added this patch should not result in a noticeably slower game. At least we have been unable to detect this on our tests.
Possibly it should be a game setting on how detailed we want our cultures and settings. Personally I don't see much reason for some small cultures, and they do worsen performance. Maybe a fair way to add more accuracy and to respect players' option for improving performance, would be to offer a setting which merges cultures, and religions, and reduces pop count.

As of right now there's not much fun gameplay to be had from diversity. Discrimination mechanics are very basic, pops don't convert when they are accepted, and don't assimilate in homelands, and there's not much difference between pops. Outside migration mechanics there's really nothing all that relevant about diversity right now... so maybe it would be good to have it as an option.
 
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I'm somewhat disappointed that we're getting those disgusting Kazakhstani southern borders, most notably awkwardly splitting Usturt. Maybe they can be redrawn along the borders of pre-1925 Imperial governorates?

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Fantastic change, much better than having everyone be Buddhist. Though I do wonder what the basis is for these Buddhist vs. Confucianism percentages.

Welcome to Chinese Religious Demographic Data Club. The first rule of Chinese Religious Demographic Data Club is: you do not talk about where you got the Chinese religious demographic data from.

Jokes aside, how to depict the Chinese religious/philosophical 'system' in Paradox games has always been a difficult topic, especially since most of our games follow a mutually exclusive either/or approach to religion, which has great difficulties accommodating the more "pick-and-mix" approach to religion/philosophy that was and is the case for China.

V3's Confucian / Buddhist split relies on a set of assumptions that help split up the pops in Confucian and Mahayana pops, such as whether or not the pop is Han or not, if a state region is considered an especial hot-spot for Buddhist or Confucian practices, how rural or urban it is, or rough 'estimates' given in academic literature, etc.

I am more than open to feedback on the division here, so if you have any strong feelings about it, feel free to report them in the forums.
 
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Welcome to Chinese Religious Demographic Data Club. The first rule of Chinese Religious Demographic Data Club is: you do not talk about where you got the Chinese religious demographic data from.

Jokes aside, how to depict the Chinese religious/philosophical 'system' in Paradox games has always been a difficult topic, especially since most of our games follow a mutually exclusive either/or approach to religion, which has great difficulties accommodating the more "pick-and-mix" approach to religion/philosophy that was and is the case for China.

V3's Confucian / Buddhist split relies on a set of assumptions that help split up the pops in Confucian and Mahayana pops, such as whether or not the pop is Han or not, if a state region is considered an especial hot-spot for Buddhist or Confucian practices, how rural or urban it is, or rough 'estimates' given in academic literature.

I am more than open to feedback on the division here, so if you have any strong feelings about it, feel free to report them in the forums.
As a Chinese, and having had some research on Chinese religions, I agree with this solution personally.

But please be ready to accept feedbacks of the community. Some players may not be happy to see that some province are more Mahayana or more Confucian. You see, these useless SYMBOLIC things hurt or matter.

My only hope is that, do not making Confucian pops sharply separated from Mahayana pops, like some laws discriminate Mahayana while do not discriminate Confucian.

If it’s up to me a player, I’ll never make Confucianism a religion in Vicky3 or any PDS GSG.
 
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V3's Confucian / Buddhist split relies on a set of assumptions that help split up the pops in Confucian and Mahayana pops, such as whether or not the pop is Han or not, if a state region is considered an especial hot-spot for Buddhist or Confucian practices, how rural or urban it is, or rough 'estimates' given in academic literature.
If you could raise some examples, it’d help. It’s ok to raise this after the release of 1.7, but we might forget this at that time. It’s ok to not raising anything if any NDA limits u. It’s my personal ask though it’d help many others.

U r a devoted dev, having answered that many in this thread. Only a few of your colleagues can reach such a devotion. I’m not praising u to get what I want. I just want to praise u.
 
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As a Chinese, and having had some research on Chinese religions, I agree with this solution personally.

But please be ready to accept feedbacks of the community. Some players may not be happy to see that some province are more Mahayana or more Confucian. You see, these useless SYMBOLIC things hurt or matter.

My only hope is that, do not making Confucian pops sharply separated from Mahayana pops, like some laws discriminate Mahayana while do not discriminate Confucian.

If it’s up to me a player, I’ll never make Confucianism a religion in Vicky3 or any PDS GSG.
We are more than happy to receive feedback. Also do note that China will start out in 1836 by accepting both Confucian and Mahayana pops. Only in Korea will they be discriminated against.
 
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Thanks looks great. It's always bugged me how firmly settled alaska, Australia, and others are. Also looking forward to the rework of minorities in south Asia, Afghanistan was a very diverse place at the time.
 
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by accepting both Confucian and Mahayana pops
By laws? So there’re possibilities that Qing and Vietnamese might discriminate Mahayana pops, which is very unbelievable. Comparing to confucian, members of Aisin Gioro are more Buddhist instead of Chinese mixed native religion, which is called “Confucianism” now. We both know that it’s a mix of ancestor worship, Taoism and other strange things but it’s fine to call it Confucianism, since EUIV has done this before.

I have an offensive guess, that the main reason why a Confucianism is implemented, is that PDS decided to add an anti-Buddhist feature for Korea under the present mechanic. Please forgive me if it’s not.

Anyway, I do not want to make further rootless comments on the contents I’ve not played yet. I’m expecting the release day very much.
 
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The answer as always is abstractions. If by Khorasani you mean Khorasani Persians, then we felt that the regional differences between 'regular' and Khorasani Persians was not great enough to justify a separate culture.
Fair. Follow-up question, is Crimean one of the new cultures in Russia, or will it remain grouped with Tartar?
 
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