Hello, everyone!
It seems that our boss GG is still absent, but when he returns, he'll be probably happy about rich discusion that was done here. Thank you for taking part in this mod with your work and ideas!
I have checked new replies and saw many interesting ideas. It will be probably the best to analyse them, so we can easier decide about that.
It's not really THAT alternate. There's no WWI but everything else seems to be the same as IRL.
Plus Dixie, Imperial Brazil and Mexican Empire surviving, and few other details.
I have made the icons of Russia, Mexican Empire and Austria-Hungary. May be you will like it.
Great work, I like them! I hope that GG will include them in mod, at least as optional choice, if not as direct part of game.
I think Tibet should be a Qing puppet (The British and the Russians recognized the Chinese sovereignty over Tibet in 1906-07 and in 1907 the Qing invaded it without success and with it in 1910, establishing direct Chinese rule and deposing the Dalai Lama in an imperial edict, only to get kicked in 1913) and Mongolia free (Mongolian independence was possible thanks to the Qing weakness and the shadow of Russia).
One question: The USA are pro-French or pro-German?
Interesting thoughts about China. Tibet, Mongolia and Sinkiang offer a lot of options. What about making them autonomous(puppets) from the start(Qing rule was weakened and some areas pushed for more independence). Later, when Qing Empire gets stronger with help of German investments, Emperor could push for centralization(puppets would have option to accept demand, make their own proposal about keeping autonomy, or even break free).
USA will be probably pro-German, as CSA is pro-French.
And then, what is the tag of Qing? CHI? MAN? or CSX?
In Pteap, it's tag was CHI. I'm sure that General_Grant will leave it this way. MAN will be probably reserved for potential Japanese puppet, other Chinese tags could be possible revolters, like Republicans, Communists...
Eh... does this make sense? India having dominion status, sure. And even without that, making India independent helps Britain, which has real trouble defending the subcontinent in any case.
But the East Indies were poorly defended, and Dutch rule had very, very little support. It as a dominion therefore makes little sense, IMO.
Well, isn't main sense of dominions to gain support of population? If many native politicians would be put in charge, maybe there could be plausible cause for making dominion. But I don't know situation in Indonesia very well, so dominon of Dutch East Indies won't be included if there wasn't any chance about making it OTL.
Can we ditch Qing China. I know that being alternate history, we all have a fetish for hereditary dictatorships, but it's a trend around here that makes no damn sense.
What about just making it survive, as someone proposed? Even in time of Republic, many generals and also part of population, wished to restore old empire. Republican revolution could fail in this scenario, Qing Empire had at least some support during revolution even OTL, so preventing republicans to take over could be plausible. On the other hand, some kind of Nationalist China could be put in instead of Qing, and would be supported by both Germans and USA(those two nations will be allies anyway). This could be another option, what is more plausible?
I think that the USA should be the strongest of the 3 "blocs" by far, however. It's economy would still be the world's largest, after all, and the South would be poorer than OTL in many ways.
Well, USA should be very industrialized and strong(they have hostile Confederates, Canadians and Mexicans on the border), but not too strong, since USA will be German ally, and probably shouldn't be strongest than Germany, and USA doesen't have so large territory as OTL. Altough I'm quite fond of Dixie, I think we should avoid making ''Confederacy rules and Union sucks'' scenario. It would be realistic if cotton economy collapsed some years after civil war(this brought slavery to end) and CSA fell into long-time crisis. Industrialization wasn't fast and CSA isn't in good position. Confederacy also faced many tensions between it's members and lack of cooperation between states could bring even more troubles.
I like the idea, personally, of making the USA a progressive, anticolonial state that's stirring up trouble around the world.
Your idea is good, it also gives me some more ideas.
Question for the entire team:
I know ideology is not so important in this scenario, but stable long-time alliances are mainly based on some common ideals. I think most nations of one alliance should share common ideology, to easier counter rivals. Here's list of planned alliances and some words about that. Names can be changes, please post your proposals and ideas.
Central Powers: Alliance was born to encircle revanchist France and her allies. Most of it's members share authoritarian conservative/reactionary views(PA or SC in Hoi2 terms, Germany could be SC with slider moved a bit towards authoritarian, and also with elections). German empire is constitutional monarchy with developed parliamentary and federal system, but there's still some authoritarian elements, as being de facto dominated by Prussia. IMHO it would be best to make it Social Conservative, but with sliders just one step away from PA dictatorship. Austria-Hungary could have similar orientation, there were some quite progressive electorial reforms just before WW1 IRL. Minor European members like Bulgaria, Ottomans and others could be classic Paternal Autocrats. USA could be much more diffrent, more progressive and very democratic SC or ML. USA is pro-German mainly because pro-French Mexico and CSA, as ''enemy of my enemy is my frined''. China is still not decided, Qing Empire looks great choice for pro-German Chinese state, but on the other hand, making Chinese Republic could give another more republican member to Central Powers, so USA won't be alone. But Republican China should be probably more like Nationalist China IRL, since China didn't have strong democratic tradition. Central Powers could be so mix of authoritarian consitutional monarchies(Ottomans should reform a bit also, or they would hardly survive), and some republics. USA could be a bit double-faced, ignoring German imperialism, but keeping progressive ideas about de-colonization, supporting Nationalist Independence movements in rival empires.
British Commonwealth: Most democratic bloc, countering French Revanchism and German Authoritarianism. British policy is quite liberal, with establishing dominion in India. Britain is approached by Japan, which could be also fortress of democracy, and hungry of German and American possessions.
Entente: Revanchist alliance, maybe it wouldn't be so bad if making them a bit of ''Bad Guys''? France is led by Napoleon VI and influental Prime Minister Charles Maurras, making France quite dominated by Right-Wing radical politics. Marras supported Bourbon pretenders OTL, but he could saw better chance in Bonapartism in such case. France shouldn't be classic reactionary dictatorship, but some kind of mix of radical ideas and nationalism.
France is revanchist and needs something more revolutionary to gather people for revenge. I don't say there should be Fascism as IRL, as totalitarian ideologies wouldn't grow strong in this scenario, but maybe some elements, similar to Fascism, should be put in French policy. Same in other French allies, CSA under populist Huey Long, and I would also like to see Russia less weary, making some charismatic person as First Minister. I believe strong Neo-Bonapartism in 20th century could have many radical elements in France.
Comintern: This wouldn't be one of three major alliances, more like some kind of underground socialist revolutionary internationale. Socialist revolters could appear in several places, making more trouble for major alliances, and maybe even becoming strong force in world policy. Best places for Communists to appear could be classic ones, like China or Russia, but if this is less plausible(Tzarist power was consolidated, diffrent situation in China), there's also one very interesting alternate option. One about Mexico? Revolutionary ideas were always very strong there, maybe making Mexican Empire almost collapsing due to lack of reforms, and civil war in Mexico begins? Mexican revolutionaries could be very strong, starting with lots of militia divisions in their provinces(plus some regular units that joined revolution). Such revolution could be great challange for French alliance, bad strategy of imperial Mexico and it's allies could even led to revolutionary takeover of entire Mexico and even more troubles for CSA.
Those are few ideas from me, but I'm not completely satisfied with them. I still see many less plausible and odd situations, and I would really like to see more other ideas about situation in this alternate world.
@Timur the Great: Your ideas are also very interesting, they are giving even more alternate history and scenario options to the mod. For now, we still have to decide backbone of scenario, which is based on no-WW1 and Dixie surviving. But your proposal is good, it's worth to dicsus about it more.
