Legacy of Rome will be released next week, so this dev diary will be the last of this cycle. Doomdark is busy hammering away at the game, so this week the honor of writing it falls to me. As he said last time, we'll finish off with some of the unique decisions, events and mechanics we've added to the Byzantine Empire in the DLC. Note that the following stuff is for the DLC, not the free 1.07 patch.

Succession in Byzantium works the same as in the rest of Europe, except for one thing. Children born to an emperor during his reign will get the ”Born in the Purple” trait, which gives them a stronger succession claim than any older siblings born before their parents ascended the throne. If you, as emperor, still want your gifted firstborn son as your heir instead of his snotnosed younger brother who had the good fortune of being born during your reign, infanticide is not your only option. Granting the Despot honorary title to your firstborn will rank him the same as if he had the Purple trait, and given his seniority in age, he will become your heir again.

View attachment LoR_02_ERE_Events.jpg

Ambitious emperors will no doubt try to reclaim some of Rome's former glory by restoring the Empire's lost territory. If they or their imperial vassals hold certain provinces, they will have the opportunity to restore the Roman Empire. This decision essentially signifies that the West has no choice but to accept the Byzantines as the true heirs of Rome's legacy. You will get a new title (complete with a new flag, of course), and the rulers of a restored Rome always get the ”Augustus” trait, which gives a slight boost to vassal relations. If you wish it, there is a decision to move your capital to Rome, though the city scarcely compares to Constantinople in this era so you will likely have to invest a lot of gold and time to rebuild it.

Another major decision, of course, is to mend the Great Schism between the Catholic and Orthodox churches. You will need to reunite the Pentarchy (Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria and Rome) under Byzantine and Orthodox rule and accumulate a great deal of piety. When this decision is taken, Catholicism will become a heresy and Catholic rulers across Europe will have to decide whether to convert or not. A few will refuse, and Europe will likely be plagued by religious unrest for some time, but the first step has now been taken to unite Christendom under a single church.

View attachment LoR_01_ERE_Events.jpg

As you have probably seen, Byzantine rulers can elect to blind or castrate their prisoners. This can be an efficient way of permanently crippling your rivals without executing them outright. Have an obnoxious brother that covets your throne? If he is blinded or castrated, he will be removed from the imperial succession, and you will have one less pretender to worry about. Just don't expect him to like you much afterwards.

Castrated rivals aside, eunuchs played an important role at the Byzantine imperial court, and from time to time one of them will distinguish himself enough to be brought to your attention. This eunuch will be very loyal to your ruler and quite skilled in his chosen field. When other lords turn their backs on you, you will usually still be able to depend on his service, whether it's as a skilled general or a gifted spymaster.

Other events you can expect to see are triumphs being held when you emerge victorious from decisive wars, unruly Varangians in the capital, Hippodrome races and much more.

View attachment LoR_03_ERE_Events.jpg

Finally, let me stress that this does not mean that we have created a supercharged Byzantine Empire that will always go on to dominate Europe as the Romans did before them. Skilled and dedicated players will be able to stage a miraculous recovery and recreate the borders of the Roman Empire and maybe even hold it all together afterwards, but we have naturally taken care not to upset the balance of the game. Just wanted to put that out there.

 

[Sarog]

For matters like this, one has to set aside game mechanics and linguistic conventions and think about the culture and politics of the time. All authority and status derived from one's perceived connections with Rome. Kings, Emperors and Popes were not above falsifying documents to give them Roman legitimacy in order to increase their own power (see the Donation of Constantine). So if an Emperor were to retake Rome and establish a new Empire, it is not entirely unreasonable that they would begin to shift their culture to conform with existing ideas about Rome.

The way I'm thinking of it is this, if the Greeks reform Rome, you cannot shift the entire population of the Empire from Greek culture. HOWEVER. The Greekish nobility would likely only use Latin for offocial documents and the like from that point on. So perhaps a slight linguistic shift or title naming shift, but nothing to major.

The thing is, this imperial restoration would be happening from a Byzantine perspective. And the Byzantines are the legitimate continuation of Rome. When the Byzantines abandoned latin as the language of administration and of church rites, the Roman empire abandoned latin. The Byzantines didn't see themselves as foreign usurpers to the Imperial Legacy, they saw themselves as the cultural refinement of ancient Rome into a state that reflected divine order on earth. The Latin rite that the church in the west clung to, and the subsequent branding of western Europeans as "Latins", were part of a western, Catholic usurpation of Roman continuity that the west used as pretext to deny the Byzantines any legitimacy.

If the Roman empire were restored from a western perspective, sure it would make sense to backtrack to Latin and try and resurrect old Roman naming conventions in an effort for greater legitimacy. But if the Byzantine empire does this "restoration" event, it is the ultimate vindication of Byzantium over the west, proving Byzantium's legitimacy over Latin usurpation of Roman continuity. Having finally proven themselves right and forced the rest of Christendom to recognize the empire, why should the Byzantines reform their language and customs to be more Latinized when they already see themselves as the pinnacle of what it is to be Roman? Why should look back to the Empire of hundreds of years ago for legitimacy when they have finally proven the legitimacy of the Empire that exists now?

I don't know. These ideas of de-greeking the Empire don't really fit the time period, I think. Wacky stuff is great for mods, but I'm glad that there's no such cultural backtracking included in the expansion itself.

 

[Bad_Haggis]

Snip.

Spot on!

 

[Keanon]

Spot on!

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, though I'd never be able to write it as nicely as that.

 

[liamgamer55]

If you reunite christendom what do catholic heresies become? Orthadox heresies?

Sorry, I can't tell you anything... Doomdark is making threatening gestures from behind his desk. You will have to wait for an official announcement.

Can we have pictures?

 

[Will Lucky]

Looking like incredible work guys, day one purchase for me as usual.

 

[Dr_Vile]

The thing is, this imperial restoration would be happening from a Byzantine perspective. And the Byzantines are the legitimate continuation of Rome. When the Byzantines abandoned latin as the language of administration and of church rites, the Roman empire abandoned latin. The Byzantines didn't see themselves as foreign usurpers to the Imperial Legacy, they saw themselves as the cultural refinement of ancient Rome into a state that reflected divine order on earth. The Latin rite that the church in the west clung to, and the subsequent branding of western Europeans as "Latins", were part of a western, Catholic usurpation of Roman continuity that the west used as pretext to deny the Byzantines any legitimacy.

If the Roman empire were restored from a western perspective, sure it would make sense to backtrack to Latin and try and resurrect old Roman naming conventions in an effort for greater legitimacy. But if the Byzantine empire does this "restoration" event, it is the ultimate vindication of Byzantium over the west, proving Byzantium's legitimacy over Latin usurpation of Roman continuity. Having finally proven themselves right and forced the rest of Christendom to recognize the empire, why should the Byzantines reform their language and customs to be more Latinized when they already see themselves as the pinnacle of what it is to be Roman? Why should look back to the Empire of hundreds of years ago for legitimacy when they have finally proven the legitimacy of the Empire that exists now?

I don't know. These ideas of de-greeking the Empire don't really fit the time period, I think. Wacky stuff is great for mods, but I'm glad that there's no such cultural backtracking included in the expansion itself.

Okay, once again: I'm not advocating a shift to Latin as the official language (apart from in an incredibly Rome-centric empire). I'm not advocating the abandonment of Constantinopolitan values/culture. I'm most certainly not saying that they should westernise (even though the Empire is pretty feudal in-game as it is). What I'm suggesting is exactly that: a vindication of Nova Roma, a restoration of the Roman Empire through the rise of the successors of Constantine. But within this framework, I'm suggesting that in order to better cement their rule over the western half of the empire they begin to emulate the true Roman Empire, even if it is only superficial. And, as you say, as they considered themselves to be the 'legitimate' successors of Rome (also a legal/political fiction - but lets not get into that here) wouldn't they insist on calling themselves Roman? And wouldn't others being to accept this as being true, if the ERE restores Rome?
Just a thought.

 

[Mixxer5]

Okay, once again: I'm not advocating a shift to Latin as the official language (apart from in an incredibly Rome-centric empire). I'm not advocating the abandonment of Constantinopolitan values/culture. I'm most certainly not saying that they should westernise (even though the Empire is pretty feudal in-game as it is). What I'm suggesting is exactly that: a vindication of Nova Roma, a restoration of the Roman Empire through the rise of the successors of Constantine. But within this framework, I'm suggesting that in order to better cement their rule over the western half of the empire they begin to emulate the true Roman Empire, even if it is only superficial. And, as you say, as they considered themselves to be the 'legitimate' successors of Rome (also a legal/political fiction - but lets not get into that here) wouldn't they insist on calling themselves Roman? And wouldn't others being to accept this as being true, if the ERE restores Rome?
Just a thought.

IMO if Byzantium would regaing status of superpower (which orignally RE was), some old traditions would be recultivated. On the other hand it'd be part of original culture, not great changes. So if I'd have to, I'd say that all Greek provinces should convert to this Neo-Roman culture (being only continuation of original Greek culture), while other cultures inside of empire would have increased assimilation speed- but assimilating to certain semi-cultures (French to Gaul etc), being inside of Roman culture group.

 

[nestorius]

Two questions

Are orthodox getting any religious orders?

What happens to religious orders when the schism is resolved do they disapear? or do they become orthodox?

 

[Alerias]

So no nobody cares about the long history Usurers and how there many different method of taking Imperial , that would only really seen in Byzantine for time period. Or how there is no landed nobility in the Western sense. Nobody cares or want asking more question about that?

Nope. Im happy with my magic buttons to restore stuff and cool new traits, and Holy War to sack London, I'm good.

More seriously, I'm thinking the new faction system will go a long way towards making gameplay more flavourful in the Orient. If Paradox is smart, they'll have coded Greeks as more likely to plot to push new dynasties to the throne while Germans are more likely to plot for greater autonomy and a weaker WRE. This could go a long way towards differentiating the internal politics.

 

[Dr_Vile]

IMO if Byzantium would regaing status of superpower (which orignally RE was), some old traditions would be recultivated. On the other hand it'd be part of original culture, not great changes. So if I'd have to, I'd say that all Greek provinces should convert to this Neo-Roman culture (being only continuation of original Greek culture), while other cultures inside of empire would have increased assimilation speed- but assimilating to certain semi-cultures (French to Gaul etc), being inside of Roman culture group.

Perhaps we should move this discussion to a new thread, since we're taking up room here.

I don't agree with this, and for one very important reason: the way culture shift works is that the nobility adopt this culture first in order to get into good graces with their Liege-Lord (see Anglo-Saxon -> Norman -> English). This then filters down through the middle classes (who emulate the fashionable upper classes) and then to the peasantry. An instantaneous conversion isn't really realistic.
And a conversion of France to Gaul is... implausible. Gaul isn't being revived, Rome is. Perhaps if you're appointing regional governors, but not as a new culture. The Despot of Gaul has a nice ring to it, no?

 

[Alerias]

I suspect we'll get a couple more DLC songs and perhaps TWO separate portrait packs, one for Mediterranean skin and another for black skin available at the same time as this DLC.

Its how its happened until now. I'm not sure why Doomdark insists on creating an hostile workplace environment over this, poor Goosecreature

 

[Dr_Vile]

I suspect we'll get a couple more DLC songs and perhaps TWO separate portrait packs, one for Mediterranean skin and another for black skin available at the same time as this DLC.

Its how its happened until now. I'm not sure why Doomdark insists on creating an hostile workplace environment over this, poor Goosecreature

I hope this is true, but as I recall there were some problems mentioned in earlier diaries. Maybe they'll be fixed for the release - Epic Beard of Orthodoxy FTW!

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Screenshots look nice!!

Even though the guy in the first screenie lacks a BEARD!!

But maybe that's to show that the silly "restored Roman Empire" brings new facial hair fashions... In any case I would like the normal Greek rulers and courtiers to have BEARDS. Any wiki page on the Byzantine emperors in the CK2 timeframe shows you a long sequence of 99% bearded guys.

 

[Mixxer5]

Perhaps we should move this discussion to a new thread, since we're taking up room here.

I don't agree with this, and for one very important reason: the way culture shift works is that the nobility adopt this culture first in order to get into good graces with their Liege-Lord (see Anglo-Saxon -> Norman -> English). This then filters down through the middle classes (who emulate the fashionable upper classes) and then to the peasantry. An instantaneous conversion isn't really realistic.
And a conversion of France to Gaul is... implausible. Gaul isn't being revived, Rome is. Perhaps if you're appointing regional governors, but not as a new culture. The Despot of Gaul has a nice ring to it, no?

Gaul culture is only an example (BTW- Occitaine is direct continuator of Gaul culture). What I mean is that different parts of empire will have bit different cultures. It applies to all realms not only empire. But we're talking about Rome so... And such "Gaul-Roman" culture should be closer to Roman than- for example- Byzantine to Georgian/Armenian.


And personally I think that adding Victoria-like percentage cultures would solve everything.

 

[Joel M Bridge]

Nope. Im happy with my magic buttons to restore stuff and cool new traits, and Holy War to sack London, I'm good.

More seriously, I'm thinking the new faction system will go a long way towards making gameplay more flavourful in the Orient. If Paradox is smart, they'll have coded Greeks as more likely to plot to push new dynasties to the throne while Germans are more likely to plot for greater autonomy and a weaker WRE. This could go a long way towards differentiating the internal politics.

Maybe because Byzantium studies are is my minor I care a bit more.

 

[riadach]

on the other side of the spectrum we have English, the Celtic languages, Afrikaans and Chinese which are very analytic).

Celtic languages, Irish especially, are quite synthetic.

 

[Dr_Vile]

Screenshots look nice!!

Even though the guy in the first screenie lacks a BEARD!!

But maybe that's to show that the silly "restored Roman Empire" brings new facial hair fashions... In any case I would like the normal Greek rulers and courtiers to have BEARDS. Any wiki page on the Byzantine emperors in the CK2 timeframe shows you a long sequence of 99% bearded guys.

The Mediterranean portrait DLC supposedly has the Orthodox beard in all its glory. The screenshot is just the vanilla European portrait. Everyone knows that the power is in the beard.

Gaul culture is only an example (BTW- Occitaine is direct continuator of Gaul culture). What I mean is that different parts of empire will have bit different cultures. It applies to all realms not only empire. But we're talking about Rome so... And such "Gaul-Roman" culture should be closer to Roman than- for example- Byzantine to Georgian/Armenian.


And personally I think that adding Victoria-like percentage cultures would solve everything.

Yes, percentage cultures would solve everything. If only we could create some sort of super-game combining the mechanics of CKII, EUIII, Victoria 2, HOI 3 and Medieval 2.

 

[Spartanlemur]

Best dev diary yet. Now I'm certain I'm going to purchase on day one

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Best dev diary yet. Now I'm certain I'm going to purchase on day one

You are in fact wrong -- the previous one was better.

For anyone interested, I've PM'd Goose regarding historical suggestions to help Ethiopia.

 

[Ciccillo Rre]

Celtic languages, Irish especially, are quite synthetic.

My bad, I had the Brittonic languages in mind. They are highly analytic, it has been claimed that a Brittonic substratum has caused the synthetic => analytic shift in the English language.