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Stellaris Dev Diary #60: Psionics and The Shroud

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is going to be about psionics and one of the three ascension paths mentioned in Dev Diary #56: the Psionic Ascension Path.

Psionics
First, before we start digging into the way psionics will work Utopia, we should clarify that we are not removing any features from the free version of the game. If you have the Banks update but do not own Utopia, psionics will continue to work the same way they currently do: As technologies that you unlock. The only difference is that psionics can now only be researched by Spiritualist empires, though it is entirely possible for an empire that does not start out as Spiritualist to acquire psionics by shifting their empire ethics to Spiritualist over the course of the game, and once you start down the Psionic path it is possible to continue along it even if you stop being Spiritualist. This Spiritualist requirement applies whether or not you own Utopia.

If you *do* own the Utopia expansion, most of the psionic features will no longer appear as technologies. Only Psionic Theory, the very first psionic tech, is still researchable. To get access to the rest of the psionic path you will need to pick the 'Mind over Matter' Ascension Perk to start your empire on the Psionic Ascension Path. Picking this Ascension Perk will unlock latent psionic abilities among your primary species. A certain percentage of your leaders will have the 'Psychic' trait that grants a variety of advantages for the different leader classes, you will get access to Psionic Armies and also the special Psi Corps building. As with all Ascension Paths, you will need to have at least two Ascension Perk slots unlocked to pick 'Mind over Matter'.
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After picking Mind over Matter, you will need to continue amassing Unity and working your way through the Tradition trees. Once you have unlocked your fourth Ascension Perk slot, the 'Transcendance' Ascension Perk becomes available. This is the second stage in the Psionic Ascension Path and represents the full Psionic awakening of your species. From this point on, your entire species will get the 'Psionic' species trait and all leaders from this species will be full-fledged Psychics. In addition to the advantages granted by these traits, from now on there is also a chance that other species in your empire will psionically awaken, first as latent Psychics and then as fully awakened ones much like your own.
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The Shroud (Paid Feature)
Not long after fully awakening, your species will become aware of The Shroud. The Shroud is the realm from which psychics draw their power, a strange dimension very unlike the material universe, a place of opportunity and danger alike. To begin exploring The Shroud, you will need to complete a special society research project that once completed will give you access to The Shroud in the contacts view. Each time you wish to enter The Shroud you will need to expend a considerable amount of energy (in the form of Energy Credits), though this cost can be reduced by having access to the Zro Dust Strategic Resource.
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As for what can happen while exploring The Shroud... quite a few different things. We will not give them all away here, but some examples include unlocking psionic technologies, asking the spirits that dwell there for a boon, or even forming a Covenant with one of a number of particularly powerful spirits... a pact that will give great benefits, but may come at a terrible cost.
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That's all for today! Next week we'll be coming back to Factions and how you can use them to change your Empire Ethics. We'll also be talking about Indoctrination. See you then!
 
I have an Empire that I regularly play called the 'Wizard's Guild'. They are fanatically materialistic individualists, and I have been super upset that they can't both have robots effectively and be spiritualist (to represent magic). Will I finally be able to get the best of both worlds with this DLC, either by being able to make them base Spiritualists and give them synthetic advancement perks, or materialist with psychic ones?
 
that's cool

can you tell us what the other ethics are getting? Obviously not in detail but a brief idea

If I get Psionics and the Shroud for being Spiritualist, what do I get for being Materialist, or Pacifist or Egalitarian

Are their possibly some cross over mechanics? Like maybe Egalitarian Spiritualists can form a special psionic democracy or something
For sneak peak paradox has already did for synthetic evolution. It also said "immortality is now within our reach" I guess that's enough.
 
I sense a massive balancing issue coming:

Right now, fanatic materialists get +15% research bonus plus an additional 10% from their unique building.
Now, with psionics, effectively all leaders of your empire will get 10% as well, which effectively accounts to a 10% bonus on all research once ou unlocked the perk.
Add the overall good happiness and ethic convergence bonus of spiritualists AND the access to amazing features and technologies and materialist ethics are pretty much useless. Only advantage is access to synths, and that comes with a price as well. I really hope Paradox looks into this, maybe gives materialists some additional buffs.

Because as a materialist, im gonna be triggered a.f. if spiritualists becomes too strong ;-)


As to everything else: I am not yet sure i like that after the magical space monsters they add some space wizards, but concerning gameplay that expansion is gonna be good. Just make the next expansion more Science-Fiction centered.
Synthetic evolution is that buff lol
 
The way I view it, you can have one and only one of the two following things:
1) Distinct ethics that have their own unique playstyles.
2) No ethics restrictions on mechanics.

I consider #1 to be more important, so that's the direction we'll be going. It'll be fully moddable, of course.

You can still do that in many other ways. The way I see it, stuff like Psionics (and other end-game mechanics you talked about in other dev diaries) are already too big in sci-fi for Stellaris to restrict them to only one mode of thinking. There are countless examples across all forms of sci-fi of psionics appearing in different ways or different views on what psionics are.

Want suggestions on how to make ethics become more unique? Ask the community. There are so many propositions on how you could do that, without gimping everyone else. Some of them even appear in mods.

For example, spiritualists could end up creating their own version of the Shroud, and use it to affect other telepaths in the galaxy. Spiritualists could start ascending into higher beings that are gods unto themselves, that other, less advanced spiritualists, might start considering to be gods (e.g. how the Shadows and the Vorlon were viewed in Babylon 5). They may have such advanced powers of will that they start bringing things into existence, like transforming planets into veritable paradises or weapons that don't quite function the way one would expect from their design. They could have super-advanced forms of travel that utilizes the Shroud or whatever sub-universe they molded to their image. The simplest thing you could do is make the first perk available to everyone, and then make the second perk restricted to spiritualists.

And please do not direct us at mods. Don't make the mistake Bethesda is doing and relying on mods to make your game a lot better, when you could be the ones doing it. I'm sorry to be blunt, but I expect from the people I buy something to make that something really worth while and not just an entry point for me to have free access to some mods that might have the right idea to make the game better, but lack the resources to do so.
 
"I feel the Warp overtaking me..."
 
I don't see why the shroud, warp, force, etc. couldn't be seen as a different aspect of the material world, able to be understood and interacted with according to empirical, materialistic, faithless science. LIke gravity, or nuclear energy, or electricity, all things once attributable to mysticism but now (mostly) understood and considered to be parts of the material universe.
 
Psionics is Scifi you have scifi shows/movies/novels/games like Babylon 5, Star Wars, Dune, Warhammer 40k and many more scifi universes use psionics

And your point? Just because a sci-fi show has magic in it...doesn't suddenly make magic sci-fi. It's also not remotely relevant how long that's been the case, as shouting something repeatedly doesn't eventually make it true. It just means there's a sci-fi story with some pure fantasy thrown in for the sake of lazy writing. Honestly...I blame Arthur C. Clarke for not clarifying his statement about advanced technology and magic. It's like the stupidity that revolves around everyone's gross misunderstanding of quantum mechanics thanks to Schrodinger's Cat.

Regardless...it's not as if I'm making an unreasonable request. I want to be able to generate galaxies with nations in which psionics can't exist. I don't like psionics in general, and I care even less for how they're currently (and planned to be) implemented in the game. I'm not asking for it to be removed from the game, nor am I inconveniencing any other player's enjoyment, should the feature be included. I'd like to at least have the option to avoid psionics completely, and I don't really trust the modding community to handle it properly...considering how broken the balance of their other efforts have been.

If it makes you feel any better, I think there should be such options for each of the ascension paths for those who tend not to like the other paths for whatever reason.
 
I am looking forward to making a bargain with Pepe in the Shroud.

I don't see why the shroud, warp, force, etc. couldn't be seen as a different aspect of the material world, able to be understood and interacted with according to empirical, materialistic, faithless science. LIke gravity, or nuclear energy, or electricity, all things once attributable to mysticism but now (mostly) understood and considered to be parts of the material universe.

Because Midichlorians are the worst things to have been introduced in the prequels and have thus been effectively struck from canon. Making them a scientific thing subverts them.
 
And your point? Just because a sci-fi show has magic in it...doesn't suddenly make magic sci-fi. It's also not remotely relevant how long that's been the case, as shouting something repeatedly doesn't eventually make it true. It just means there's a sci-fi story with some pure fantasy thrown in for the sake of lazy writing. Honestly...I blame Arthur C. Clarke for not clarifying his statement about advanced technology and magic. It's like the stupidity that revolves around everyone's gross misunderstanding of quantum mechanics thanks to Schrodinger's Cat.

Regardless...it's not as if I'm making an unreasonable request. I want to be able to generate galaxies with nations in which psionics can't exist. I don't like psionics in general, and I care even less for how they're currently (and planned to be) implemented in the game. I'm not asking for it to be removed from the game, nor am I inconveniencing any other player's enjoyment, should the feature be included. I'd like to at least have the option to avoid psionics completely, and I don't really trust the modding community to handle it properly...considering how broken the balance of their other efforts have been.

If it makes you feel any better, I think there should be such options for each of the ascension paths for those who tend not to like the other paths for whatever reason.
Mod out the Psi techs (and once 1.5 is out, events). Bam.
 
I'd like to at least have the option to avoid psionics completely, and I don't really trust the modding community to handle it properly...considering how broken the balance of their other efforts have been.

While I can't say anything about the exact file structure for Ascension Perks, I would imagine that disabling the relevant perks is as simple as editing a few lines so that nobody is allowed to pick them, so you don't really need to trust someone else to balance it for you...

As for overall balance when using mods, if you disagree with how the modders are balancing something you can always mod the mod or not use the mod at all...
 
I don't see why the shroud, warp, force, etc. couldn't be seen as a different aspect of the material world, able to be understood and interacted with according to empirical, materialistic, faithless science. LIke gravity, or nuclear energy, or electricity, all things once attributable to mysticism but now (mostly) understood and considered to be parts of the material universe.

As a spiritualist I have no problem with that. Its you materialists that refuse to acknowledge a spiritual component. I think the biggest hurdle in understanding psionics scientifically is that experimental models must (and the good ones do) heavily take into account the influence of consciousness and directed will. Until we can get a little sensor that beeps when there's a soul nearby you hard headed materialists will keep banging your fists and yelling, "THAT'S NOT SCIENCE!".

Imagine trying to make an accurate model of gravity but you're pressured by the authority at the time (the Papacy) that there's no way the earth is round. You can come close but until you accept the obvious your model will always be incomplete and you'll be fumbling around in the dark.
 
And your point? Just because a sci-fi show has magic in it...doesn't suddenly make magic sci-fi. It's also not remotely relevant how long that's been the case, as shouting something repeatedly doesn't eventually make it true. It just means there's a sci-fi story with some pure fantasy thrown in for the sake of lazy writing. Honestly...I blame Arthur C. Clarke for not clarifying his statement about advanced technology and magic. It's like the stupidity that revolves around everyone's gross misunderstanding of quantum mechanics thanks to Schrodinger's Cat.

Regardless...it's not as if I'm making an unreasonable request. I want to be able to generate galaxies with nations in which psionics can't exist. I don't like psionics in general, and I care even less for how they're currently (and planned to be) implemented in the game. I'm not asking for it to be removed from the game, nor am I inconveniencing any other player's enjoyment, should the feature be included. I'd like to at least have the option to avoid psionics completely, and I don't really trust the modding community to handle it properly...considering how broken the balance of their other efforts have been.

If it makes you feel any better, I think there should be such options for each of the ascension paths for those who tend not to like the other paths for whatever reason.

I doubt the Clarke's Third Law has anything to do with it. Psychics do not work on the idea of sufficiently advanced technology. At one point, sci-fi writers just started to use psychic stuff in their stories for whatever reason and it become something of a genre staple. You get used to them, or at least I have.

I don't think it's really a problem for Stellaris though. I do cringe if hard sci-fi suddenly pulls psychics out of the writer's ass, but softer sci-fi is already filled with various impossibilities. A lot of the negative space wedgies and space horror stuff already in the game are pretty unbelieveable, so adding Warp into the mix is not a big step.
 
As a spiritualist I have no problem with that. Its you materialists that refuse to acknowledge a spiritual component. I think the biggest hurdle in understanding psionics scientifically is that experimental models must (and the good ones do) heavily take into account the influence of consciousness and directed will. Until we can get a little sensor that beeps when there's a soul nearby you hard headed materialists will keep banging your fists and yelling, "THAT'S NOT SCIENCE!".

Imagine trying to make an accurate model of gravity but you're pressured by the authority at the time (the Papacy) that there's no way the earth is round. You can come close but until you accept the obvious your model will always be incomplete and you'll be fumbling around in the dark.

"Ideas are tested by experiment. Everything else is book-keeping." It might not be the actual definition of science or the scientific method, but I doubt the materialists would disagree. It's not a question of science or experimental models, it's a question of the Shroud letting them in.

Also, can we stop with the whole "Papacy kept the heliocentric model suppressed" thing? That's not what happened.
 
It's not a question of science or experimental models, it's a question of the Shroud letting them in.

The shroud is conscious, consciousness is not as predictable as physical reactions unfortunately. That's what I was trying to get at. And so far, despite a lot of advancements in neuroscience and pharmacology we aren't any closer to understanding consciousness. At least to any of the pressing questions. Also, I've heard from other Crusades and Papacy apologists. However, based on what I've heard they liked to burn people who promoted heliocentrism if they could get their hands on them. But I'm sure the truth was probably more nuanced than that.