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EU4 - Development Diary - 3rd of October 2017

Good day all, today is a very exciting Tuesday, as we'll be coming to the conclusion of our EU4 Dev Clash Multiplayer Campaign, complete with trophies and congratulations to the winners and commiserations to those who did not make it to the Top 3. We'll be live over at our twitch page at the usual time of 1500 CEST.

Until then though, let's cover a few more changes we have in store in the upcoming Persia Update and it's accompanying expansion. Last week we covered changes over in Persia, so today let's look over towards Anatolia.

Firstly, let's talk the Ottoman Government. This recently introduced government type is a strong boon to the Ottoman nation, but as of the Persia Update it will be attainable for other nations too via the decision to Restore the Sultanate of Rûm.

decision.jpg


Any ambitious Turkish nation can, after wiping tactfully removing Ottomans and Byzantium from the map, take the decision to form Rûm. The requirements will also ask that they hold key provinces in the region. This will grant their nation a new name, flag, colour and National Ideas for their Sultanate of Rûm.

Rum.jpg


RUM_ideas = {
Traditions = {
manpower_recovery_speed = 0.2
land_morale = 0.1
}
Ambition= {
land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.25
}
trigger = {
tag = RUM
}
free = yes

rum_abul_fath = {
discipline = 0.05
}
"We have enemies in all directions making a strong army is a necessity for a state such as ours. Fortunately we are not a weak people. From the irregular Gazis and the Akinci raiders to the Sipahis of the Ottoman Empire the world have come to know the military might of the Turkish people. Let us build an army for an Empire, taking inspiration from wherever military competence can be found while also drawing from the strengths and experiences of those that came before us."

rum_king_of_the_east_and_west = {
core_creation = -0.20
num_accepted_cultures = 1
}
"Since the fall of Rûm the Turkish people have been divided, serving minor beys from the bosphorus to the mountains of Kurdistan. It was our duty to restore the legacy of the Seljuk Sultans of Rûm and unite the Anatolian Turks. Our ambition however must be much higher than that. The Seljuk Turks once ruled one of the greatest empires known to man, it is evident to anyone who sees our empire that the restoration of this state is now our destiny, as is the reclamation of the Roman lands that were once ruled from what is now our heartland."

rum_shahanshah = {
legitimacy = 1
}
"Rûm was not only an Anatolian state but also one that strongly honored the Persian traditions of kingship. Especially as Persia itself fell to Mongol conquerors. Under the sultans before us Persianate culture blossomed and Persian poets and scholars found patronage. Men such as Najm-al-Din Razi, Qane'i Tusi, Baha'-al-Din Walad and Rumi himself made their homes under Rûm’s protection and the Sultans themselves were versed in Persian literature and poetry.\nWe must cherish our Persian legacy as well as our Turkish and aspire to make our homeland a paragon of Persianate culture, the foremost of Islamic nations."

rum_sultan_of_rum = {
tolerance_heathen = 3
}
"The Sultans of Rûm ruled over the people of Anatolia, Muslims and Christians. It was during their reign that Islam became the dominant religion in the region but their policies accepted all subjects. Often inviting even Christians from the nearby lands to seek out the domain of Rûm. We would do well to learn from their example."

rum_sulan_al_bahrayn = {
naval_maintenance_modifier = -0.15
}
"Like the Rûm sultans of the past we must establish a strong and durable navy that can withstand both Christian pirates and the fleets of other Muslims. The ability to control and expand over the Mediterranean and protect our coastlines is going to be one of the main challenges of our Empire."

rum_sultan_al_muazzam = {
build_cost = -0.15
}
"The greatest of Sultans require grand monuments and buildings. Let us make the lands of Rûm the envy of the Islamic world, with mosques, madrasas, caravanserai, gardens, canals and palaces unlike any other. Through architectural patronage we can create an enduring and unique legacy for our dynasty."

rum_protector_of_dar_al_islam = {
global_heretic_missionary_strength = 0.03
}
"Our predecessors were always ready to defend the righteous and to combat the spread of heretical sects. So too must we do our utmost to promote the pure forms of religious worship and limit the the influence of heretical rulers who would otherwise try to seduce and mislead the faithful."
}
Click to expand...

So with Ottoman Government attainable, we also have some new toys for them to play with.

As part of the accompanying expansion, the Ottoman Government will have access to Pashas and Janissaries

Firstly Pashas. In States, a nation with Ottoman Government can assign a Pasha. This will reduce unrest and the State maintenance cost for those provinces while also raising the cost of new buildings and units from them. This will prove useful in keeping costs and revolts down in provinces far from the capital, however revoking a Pasha will result in increased unrest for 10 years.

pasha.jpg


Janissaries on the other hand, have seen some changes. No longer a countrywide boon for all units, the Janissaries are now special elite units. These can be recruited for a set cost of 50MIL from a given state. For every 10 development of heathen-faith land in a state, 1 Janissary unit will be spawned, making high-development concentrations of wrong-religion land desirable . These special units cost twice as much to reinforce but are able to withstand damage much better, taking 10% less shock and fire damage in battle. Similarly, the Janissary Decadence disaster has been altered, now to fire if a nation relies too heavily on Janissaries relative to their forcelimit.

You know I think it's not fair that we look so much at the Ottomans. For the upcoming Persia Update, it's actually the Mamluks who start in 1444 with higher development between the two. We'll take a look at what we have in store for them but that'll have to wait for next week, as there are trophies to polish for now.

See you next week!
 
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Lysistrata said:
Would you guys re-add the Paduspanids as an OPM? I know they weren't exactly at their prime in 1444, but they were descended from the Sassanid dynasty, maybe they could even have unique ideas?
Click to expand...

Did I miss something where they removed Tabaristan (or changed its ruling dynasty)? From the Persia screenshots last week, I recall seeing them still existing a 2PM in Gilan+Mazandaran.
 
I'm really curious of the west side of the map @DDRJake shared. I have a feeling like there is not much Ottoman Balkans on that side of the world.
I'm also very much surprised to see Ottomans having all that land in @Trin Tragula 's hands-off game. I don't know how they can still stay competitive after all these huge nerfs.
50 MIL for Janisseries with just 5% discipline and 10% damage! Thank you, I didn't lose my mind. I won't waste my valuable mana points for some historical flavor. I'll keep the regulars and give them wooden swords and throw them at mighty Polish, Russian, Magyar armies and watch my armies being annihilated!

People were crying for how they want to see different outcomes in the area where Ottomans do not blob or do not eat the other countries around. I think people forget that Ottomans were not a rising power back then, they were already a great power. I'm not sure how they feel when France is eaten by Britanny or Castille is re-reconquista'ed by Granada. It'd be a broken game, then I guess. And I would not find it fun even though it is a game. I expect some sort of historical accuracy.

I really want to believe these changes would balance the game, though. We will see how it will turn out.

P.S. I only played 4 EUIV games and it was all Ottomans. I now have a reason to play a different tag next game. That's a one good positive outcome of this expansion for me.
 
@harezmi Ottomans might have been THE power at the time, but they didn't have unbeatable armies like they do right now. Implementing Janissaries as a special unit is way better than having a nationwide unit bonus. It would be AHISTORICAL. The Ottomans still lost many battles apart from winning most of the major ones. Right now, they are unbeatable 1:1 which was nowhere near reality.
 
bagas12 said:
They lost alot of power, true, but we don't necessary need to go the route of giving sheer power for the Janissaries to make they worthy, we certainly could just put combat modifiers in them and call it a day, giving space marines to Ottomans since day one of the grand campaign or we could go the route of more of a Army Professionalism focus with the units tying with the DLC new mechanics and making they strong as a unit and while Ottomans have them the army will be strong too.
Click to expand...
The Janissaries were THE PREMIERE FIGHTING FORCE of this time period. Currently, they're as strong as a country's levies that have 10% infantry combat 5% discipline. Kongo almost has Janissary tier infantry.
 
hashinshin said:
Janissaries weaker than Polish leavies? Very historical.
Click to expand...

I think that the Janissary special units need to have a discipline boost apart from having -damage received bonuses. But the perma bonus perk that applies to literally all 200 000 of Ottoman units is just too ridiculous. I am sorry.
 
KuroS45 said:
Yes Tabarestan was replaced by Mazandaran with a new dynasty.
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks, I must have missed it since Mazandaran seemed to have the same map colour as Tabarestan. Will the Shahanshah achievement now require playing as Mazandaran then (and thus require updating its description)? I can't imagine that they would remove it suddenly after 4 years.
 
Since we can create old empires like the Sultanate of Rum, can we also get an option to reunite the caliphate, like when you click unify Islam, you create a nation called "Islamic Caliphate", or "[Dynasty Name] Caliphate" and you get the title of Caliph with a government called "Caliphate". We can already restore the Roman Empire, so why not the same with Islam. It would really make the "unify Islam" decision a lot more satisfying than getting some extra bonuses(personally because of the rather lack of rewards, I often don't even bother with that decision, rather we get to see a huge change on the map and a brand new nation. Also since this update is about the Middle East, Islam should get more religious mechanics like it has in CK2
 
otaats said:
I think that the Janissary special units need to have a discipline boost apart from having -damage received bonuses. But the perma bonus perk that applies to literally all 200 000 of Ottoman units is just too ridiculous. I am sorry.
Click to expand...
Obviously. The current iteration though has Polish infantry stronger than the Janissary core.
 
harezmi said:
People were crying for how they want to see different outcomes in the area where Ottomans do not blob or do not eat the other countries around. I think people forget that Ottomans were not a rising power back then, they were already a great power. I'm not sure how they feel when France is eaten by Britanny or Castille is re-reconquista'ed by Granada. It'd be a broken game, then I guess. And I would not find it fun even though it is a game. I expect some sort of historical accuracy.
Click to expand...

Ottomans were NEVER losing unless the player is involved. Second biggest offender is France, which could at least lose if dogpiled by at least 2 of Burgundy/England/Castile or beaten by Spain, if Spain forms and builds a power base

Also Ottomans are the country that comes closest to historical borders of all the big tags, other equally important empires do not come nearly as close to history (Spain/Qing/Mughals)

Basicly there's 2 ways around this, either buff those countries and basicly railroad history so that all big countries enjoy the success that the Ottomans currently do or give more tags at least a fair chance. Mamluks conquering the Ottomans isn't less likely than Burgundy or England beating France (alone)
 
Last edited:
DDRJake said:
I see your Nice Persian overnight and raise you the hands-off Mughals of doom!

index.php


In 1.23, Persia and Mughals make more frequent appearances on the map. This one was a formation from the very ambitious Khorasan.
Click to expand...
is that a Russia I see blobbing into China? the folks who complain about Russia being OP aren't going to like that...
 
Black Turtle said:
Turks basically won with numbers and by stealing European technology like cannons. If it hadn 't been for Orban Ottomans would never have taken Constantinople. Janissaries as a whole weren't on part with the average European infantry in that age.
Click to expand...
Leave such myths and impertinent tone already. The Ottomans were ahead of europe in cannon technology in most of eu4 timeframe and Orban produced only two out of ten great bombards the Ottomans used in the siege of Constantinople.
 
Black Turtle said:
Turks basically won with numbers and by stealing European technology like cannons. If it hadn 't been for Orban Ottomans would never have taken Constantinople. Janissaries as a whole weren't on part with the average European infantry in that age.
Click to expand...

As far as I know the turks did in fact adopt cannons before the europeans (though Orban was a christian, he offered his cannons to the emperor of Byzantium first but he couldn't pay for them, then he went to the ottoman sultan) and they did not "steal" them. The Ottomans were late adopting infantry firearms compared to the europeans (apart from the janissaries who adopted them quickly), Persian, Mamluks and other muslim states were late compared to the Ottomans. In the Siege of Vienna for example the superior pikes and arquebuses of the imperials was part of the reason why the turks couldn't storm the city

The janissaries were definitly stronger than average european infantry, unlike regular ottoman troops who mostly relied on numbers. But the janissaries were widely known as disciplined and well trained troops. In fact, the only troops of that age that I would put into the same category as the janissaries are the spanish tercios. And as far as I'm aware there wasn't really any open field combat between those two units, so which one you consider better depends more on your personal preference rather than actual facts
 
Black Turtle said:
Turks basically won with numbers and by stealing European technology like cannons. If it hadn 't been for Orban Ottomans would never have taken Constantinople. Janissaries as a whole weren't on part with the average European infantry in that age.
Click to expand...
The Janissaries were so powerful that many figures cite regular troops, then Janissaries. As in "they brought 50,000 levies, and 5,000 Janissaries." Not many armies had such amazing quality in their regiments that they were counted separately by their opponents.

The Janissaries were THE PREMIERE FIGHTING FORCE of this time period.

One of the reasons the siege of Wien was such a disaster for the Ottomans is they had many Janissaries caught after the battle on the retreat. So many skilled soldiers that they couldn't replace was a catastrophe to the Turks and they never really recovered.
 
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