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CK2 Dev Diary #84 - Renovating Russia

Greetings!

Today we’re going back into the cartographer’s office to view the latest maps of the vast lands that lie just before the eternal steppes, where the Volga flows - the land of the proud Rus’. The Russian lands have always felt rather underdeveloped in CK2 compared to their size, even very important sites such as Kiev or Novgorod have been occupied by massive Counties that hardly give the area justice. As the area is one which lies in between the lords of feudal western europe, the Roman remnants in Byzantium and the relentless nomads of the steppes we thought it much too interesting to not develop further.

As Russia is quite big, we’ve broken the images up into three parts. These pictures are all from the year 769, so if something isn’t named as you expect it to be (i.e. Novgorod being named Ilmen) that’s the reason why.

Starting off with the north:
RussiaDD_North.png

As you can see, the definition has increased rather significantly. Historicity has also been improved, as the new borders are all based on sources from between the years ~600 to ~1300 (From proto-slavic tribes migrating in the area to the dissolution of the Kievan Rus' by internal strife and the Mongol hordes) with a focus on the 700-1100 timespan.

Now the south:
RussiaDD_South.png

Of primary note is that Kiev is now split up, and no longer one single humongous County. Those of you with sharp eyes might also notice that there is a new nomadic nation up by Radimichia and Severia - the Burtas clan, which is Turkic.

And as a bonus, Wallachia:
RussiaDD_Wallachia.png

As Bessarabia was so interconnected with the Kievan and Crimean lands, it felt right to also give the kingdom of Wallachia a facelift.

And now for the De Jure maps, as they have been requested in every previous map Dev Diary so far!

Duchies:
RussiaDD_769DeJureDuchies.png


Kingdoms:
RussiaDD_769DeJureKingdoms.png


You may notice that the old Rus’ kingdom is gone, replaced with the much more historical kingdoms of Novgorod and Vladimir. There are also several new smaller kingdoms, such as Galicia-Volhynia and Chernigov which both provide new opportunities and new risks, depending on if you’re playing in the Tribal era or Feudal era.

Empires:
RussiaDD_769DeJureEmpires.png

There was no doubt that the Tartarian empire was too big, that’s why when we had to add to it (the Kingdom of Perm is now part of it instead of Russia) we felt the need to break it up. In the south you can now see an empire of the Pontic Steppe - closely representing the Khazarian sphere of influence at its height.

Here’s a screenshot of how the 867 setup will look:
RussiaDD_867.png

And here’s 1066:
RussiaDD_1066.png

The major thing in this date is that after Yaroslav the Wise's death in 1054, his land in the Kievan Rus was divided between his 5 sons. Internal strife erupted quickly after between the sons and other relatives (like the prince of Polotsk), hurting the stability of the state.

That's why although the Kievan Rus' still existed as somewhat centralized around the Grand Prince of Kiev, at least for a while, unity wasn't the key word to describe the state. We've reflected that by keeping the different duchies independent but still tributaries to Kiev - until civil war starts again when brothers, sons, and cousins start pushing for their claims...

Changelog:
Code:
- Map Update to Russia
   - Major overhaul of the whole russian sphere
    - All major & minor rivers reshaped
    - e_russia is now created through 5 kingdoms (Ruthenia, Novgorod, Vladimir, Chernigov & Galicia-Volhynia)
    - 3 new kingdoms : Vladimir, Chernigov, Galicia-Volhynia
    - k_rus renamed from "Rus" to "Novgorod"
    - 4 new duchies (Cherven Cities, Karachev, Novosil, Murom)
    - 37 new provinces added to the general area
    - A few titular russian-tribes-themed duchies added for earlier startdates

Note that from now on, CK2 Dev Diaries will take place on Fridays rather than Mondays!
 
I only have one question:
What has happened with some Volga Bulgaria provinces? Why from the screenshots it seems like Bulgar (capital province) is now on the opposite side of the remade Kama River? It's neither realistic nor matching how the provinces looked in the previous version. It now just looks like Qazan (or, technically, its territory) is the capital of Volga Bulgaria (which was not, at least not sooner than 13th century); and Bilyar province just spread wider to the former Bulgar place. Still hope that I somehow misunderstood the new map, but apparently I have no relief.
Actually makes me confused and sad, because this faction is one of my favourites to play, not a very big one in territory, and such strange correction breaks all the experience for me and, I suppose, for some players. o_O

Anyway, very glad to see all the work you've done with the map (delightful), and with the Volga-Kama region as well. But I hope I would draw your attention to the matter.
 
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"Pontic Steppes" sounds very, very bad. "Empire of the Steppes" would be better than this.

They could 1) add a unique inland republic system or 2) make a Major River flowing from Novgorod into the ocean, and turn Novgorod into coastal (like the AGOT mod does with inland Qohor and Norvos).

Republican Novgorod, or we riot!

@Slayen, @Heathen, @Qwalen, got something to add?

That second solution was rather simple and straightforward. Now you're able to form a merchant republic in Novgorod with More Navigable Rivers.
 
That second solution was rather simple and straightforward. Now you're able to form a merchant republic in Novgorod with More Navigable Rivers.

I don't think it's the ideal solution, but if PDX is short on development time that's a nice workaround.

It can also apply to most historical republics - e.g. make the Arno a Major River, and you can set Florence as a merchant republic and play as the Médici.
 
I don't think it's the ideal solution, but if PDX is short on development time that's a nice workaround.

It can also apply to most historical republics - e.g. make the Arno a Major River, and you can set Florence as a merchant republic and play as the Médici.

That's actually a very good idea even if the Medici are past the timeline for CK2 as they're more properly part of the Renaissance. That would also affect Novgorod by the same means.
 
Update, and I now I will cry

Burtas, from my understanding, were most likely Iranian, and if not that they should be in the same group as the Hungarians. I do not like the Turkic burtas :(
 
This is gorgeous! Thanks for the hard work!
I still have several questions.
Will all the new changes include the trade route from the Varangians to the Greeks, as it was rather pivotal for early Rus?
Will something be done with the titles for Russian culture? I may be wrong, but, for example, the title of a King looks out of place.
 
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Will something be done with the titles for Russian culture? I may be wrong, but, for example, the title of a King looks out of place.

Oh, yes. I don't care that much about them being called "knyaz", but at the very least it should look like:

- count : appanage prince
- duke: prince
- king: grand prince
- emperor: tsar

And *both* counts and dukes upgrade their title one rank up when independent.
 
Moldova seems kind of small-ish. Iasi was a small county, it doesn't stretch so long from North to South. Everything else looks pretty good though.
 
Really looking forwards to playing this; Russia's an area I've been hoping would get a revamp for quite some time! :D

Some quick thoughts;
*Wouldn't it make more sense to rename Ruthenia to "Kiev", given that the rest of the Kingdoms here are named after the historic principalities? It'd also make more sense given that Galicia-Volhynia also claimed to be the "Kingdom of Ruthenia".
*Might it also be worth chopping Polotsk off from Ruthenia/Kiev? That'd create some neater borders, allow for a proto-Belarus state to form, and also allow it and Galicia-Volhynia to double as the historic "White" and "Red Ruthenia", respectively? Although I suppose the later terms might not be relevant in this time period.
*Wallachia...is there a reason that's the name for the Kingdom? I mean, the arms used in the game are the ones attributed to the Kingdom of Dacia, and given that Roman titles were still used in this period to refer to regions (Pannonia and Hispania, to name just two), wouldn't it make sense to use that here as well? "Vlachia" could also be retained as an alternative name that shows up if you have a Vlach ruler?
*Instead of "Wild Fields", would "Etelköz" work better? It's the name of the Magyar state that existed in the area before the conquest of the Carpathian Basin, and it more or less corresponds with the "Magyar" state shown in the 867 start date (you could also make it an alternative name for the Kingdom of Crimea that shows up if it has a Magyar ruler).
*Would Lukomorye be a suitable name for the area currently known as the Duchy of Crimea? The Wiki does note that for a time it was said to be the region north of the sea of Azov, so it could represent the area better than "Crimea"...
*Rather than Pontic-Caspian Steppe, maybe a more archaic name would suit the region instead? Khazaria could work, given that it did control most of that area at its greatest extent, but there's also "Tourkia" - a term used by western historians to refer to Khazaria and also Hungary - and Sarmatia - a far older title, but potentially justified alongside other states like Transoxiana, which have distinctly western titles that wouldn't have been used by the locals.
 
Why is Moldavia still called by its German name "Moldau"? It makes a little sense imo. Moldau could be used as a dynamic name when a German ruler rules that duchy but as default it should be called Moldavia with Moldova as a dynamic Vlach (Romanian) name.
 
What cultures are Tivertsi Ushytsia and Olvia?

Volhynian (proto-russian, in game terms)

What has happened with some Volga Bulgaria provinces?

Nothing actually, it's the same as current live version AFAIK ?

But I hope I would draw your attention to the matter.

Who knows what the future holds...

Will all the new changes include the trade route from the Varangians to the Greeks, as it was rather pivotal for early Rus?

Nope. We've discussed addition of trade routes in Europe but it's not an easy subject, as the system is dependent on previous expansions (HL or JD), we want to keep the Silk Road as a very important trade route and we're also thinking that if we add trade routes, we'd rather make them special with a specific system in mind

Will something be done with the titles for Russian culture?

Not planned, but it would be a quick change so it's not impossible we look at it later

Wouldn't it make more sense to rename Ruthenia to "Kiev", given that the rest of the Kingdoms here are named after the historic principalities?

We debated that internally, actually. I might talk about it with RageaiR a bit more

Might it also be worth chopping Polotsk off from Ruthenia/Kiev?

Problem then would be where to put Polotsk (as I'm assuming you're talking about DeJure structure) ? No other neighbouring DeJure kingdom would really fit, and Polotsk is just one duchy in the game (sometimes they hold a bit more, but it's not enough for us to consider making a k_polotsk/k_belarus to be honest). I'd say if you want to create an sovereign Belarus, just play as Polotsk and wreck your neighbours :D

Wallachia...is there a reason that's the name for the Kingdom?

Was like that before, basically. I wouldn't be opposed to k_wallachia + k_moldovia in e_carpathia, though, but we'd have to consider balance & LD (as it'd imply 2 2-duchies kingdoms instead of 1-4 duchies)

Instead of "Wild Fields", would "Etelköz" work better?

You're absolutely right actually, I'll make myself a note

Why is Moldavia still called by its German name "Moldau"?

Good question. I think I just didn't commit the change, either that or I hallucinated making the change in the first place...


Arthur
 
Russian map
587CE211-D7A0-4113-B352-FC97581883D5.jpeg

1) Rename Slavic tribal unions:
Kiev -> Polyan (Polianians);
Galich -> White Croats;
Tivertsi -> Tiverian;
Ushytsia -> Ulichi;
Luki -> Pskowian;
Severia -> Severs;
Radimichia -> Radimichi;
Dregovichia -> Dregovichi;
Vyatich -> Vyatichi;

2) Change territories of Slavic tribal Unions:
Radimichs territory consist of territories of Radimichia and Severia;
Severs consist of territories of South Burtas and north-western territories of Magya;
Vyatichi consist of territories of North Burtas and South Meshchera;
Polochane has territory of Polotsk (North and West territory of game-Krivichi);
Krivichi has territory of Vyatich and south-east territory of game-Krivichi;
Slutsk is part of Dregovichi;
Ulichi have access to Black Sea;
Tiverian has access to Black Sea;

3) Other tribes:
Ladoga divide on two Finnic tribes Izhorians and Votes (Vods) and vikings Ladoga.
Burtas live on territories modern Penza Oblast, Saratov Oblast, South Ulyanovsk Oblast.
Rename Vologda in Em (Chud or Chud Zavolochskaya).
Baltic tribe of Galindians (Golyad) - territory of northern Moscow.

5) Russian kingdoms - divide Ruthenia on: Kiev, Pereyaslavl, Polotsk, Smolensk.

6) Russian duchies:
Novgorod: Novgorod, Pskov, Ladoga;
Vladimir: Vladimir, Rostov, Beloozero, Nizhny Novgorod, Suzdal;
Smolensk: Smolensk, Toropets, Mstislavl;
Polotsk: Polotsk, Vitebsk, Mensk (Minsk), Gorodno;
Chernigov: Chernigov, Novgorod-Severskyi, Bryansk, Ryazan, Murom;
Kiev: Kiev, Turov, Pinsk;
Galicia-Volhynia (has access to Black Sea): Galicia, Volhynia, Belgorod, Cherven.
Pereyaslavl: Pereyaslavl, Sula.
 
What cultures are Tivertsi Ushytsia and Olvia? I know it's a bit in the periphery, but I'm kind of hoping for Vlach. Doing a proper culture Wallachia game from 769 is very difficult.

Also, is there any particular reason that in the code CK2 Russian culture is called russian_culture as opposed to EU4 where it's just called russian? When I turn off the custom nations flag after converting (as you should), every formable tag can form except for Russia because it has arcane culture requirements that no culture in CK2 meets. I'll probably just edit the Russia decision to include russian_culture, but I was just wondering what the reasoning for CK2's being different was.
In a fact duchies Moldau and Bessarabia waw settled by tivertsian slavic tribe and wild field by ulich(uglich) tribe, so there are no sens for vlach culture.
 
In a fact duchies Moldau and Bessarabia waw settled by tivertsian slavic tribe and wild field by ulich(uglich) tribe, so there are no sens for vlach culture.

Yes .I already got a response, but thanks anyway. It doesn't really matter if it doesn't make sense if I didn't know about that to begin with. I was just asking because Vlach culture always goes extinct if you start at 769 or even 867 and later dates because of how unrepresented it is in any characters or titles or anything.
 
As a Pole, first time i saw the name"Galicia-volhynia" was in EUIV. Every historian i met, every history teacher i had, every schoolbook i've read used the name "Red Rus"
 
You're absolutely right actually, I'll make myself a note

Whoa, thank you for the comment! :D

Say, on another note, I was browsing the Wiki earlier and I stumbled across another point that could be added to the Sarmatia debate...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatia_Asiatica_and_Sarmatia_Europea
According to this (and another vague entry on the main Sarmatia page), at least two cartographers after the 1400s used the term "Sarmatia" to refer to the area that overlaps with the proposed Pontic Steppe state. If the name was still considered valid for the region (at least in the western world) at that point in time, surely that makes it the most viable name for the region in the Middle Ages? I mean, there could still be loads of alternative names that come up depending on what your culture is (Khazar = Khazaria, Alan = Alania, Taurida/Crimea = Greek, etc), so that way Sarmatia as the default name comes off more as it being the placeholder name put there by a western medieval mapmaker based on Roman sources which will disappear once something actually forms to replace it...
 
Whoa, thank you for the comment! :D

Say, on another note, I was browsing the Wiki earlier and I stumbled across another point that could be added to the Sarmatia debate...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatia_Asiatica_and_Sarmatia_Europea
According to this (and another vague entry on the main Sarmatia page), at least two cartographers after the 1400s used the term "Sarmatia" to refer to the area that overlaps with the proposed Pontic Steppe state. If the name was still considered valid for the region (at least in the western world) at that point in time, surely that makes it the most viable name for the region in the Middle Ages? I mean, there could still be loads of alternative names that come up depending on what your culture is (Khazar = Khazaria, Alan = Alania, Taurida/Crimea = Greek, etc), so that way Sarmatia as the default name comes off more as it being the placeholder name put there by a western medieval mapmaker based on Roman sources which will disappear once something actually forms to replace it...
I would personally not consider one or two 15th-century references to imply continued usage of the name since the Classical era, as said cartographer could easily have been a Latinophile who re-invented the term, but at least it does not invalidate Sarmatia completely.