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Finally Eilif gets the war he so deservers, and it's a grand one. I look forward to see how all will unfold Unfortunately though this time I have no good advice for the questions, they are all from areas which I don't have much experience.
More to the point, Eilif now controlled a large part of the reunified Rurikid demesne, with just Buðli’s Jarldom of Belo Ozero held separately. And the royal levy had of course been strengthened. But his mother would still take years to forgive him for imprisoning Dyre – even though he had now been released and banished. Another drag on Council opinion.
I'm pretty surprised there's no remittance from the fee of the Novgorodian band. There's been some wasted money but still at least they did some good work.
Ah, I've just seen I meant to write 'can't' and wrote can. My assumption was they can't use my ships, hence original plan to send them north through Finland before I discovered the land bridge.
Ah, I've just seen I meant to write 'can't' and wrote can. My assumption was they can't use my ships, hence original plan to send them north through Finland before I discovered the land bridge.
For Eilif that's no problem, but it does get annoying if you are in, say, Ireland and your landlocked vassals can't board your ships to head to whatever non-British target you are attacking .
Marching over Aland has the additional advantage to be territory with less harsh attrition, though one needs to take care not to attack over a strait-crossing. That wouldn't end well.
Thanks to all those who have responded with advice and comments on the last chapter so far. I will look to review things in the next day and write up the Thing, so if there are any more insights people wish to offer, we’re still ‘open for business’ .
After that I’ll pick up from where I left off and see if this war against Sweden is winnable with an empty treasury. So any thoughts (views or further advice) on that aspect is particularly welcome.
Thanks to all those who have responded with advice and comments on the last chapter so far. I will look to review things in the next day and write up the Thing, so if there are any more insights people wish to offer, we’re still ‘open for business’ .
After that I’ll pick up from where I left off and see if this war against Sweden is winnable with an empty treasury. So any thoughts (views or further advice) on that aspect is particularly welcome.
A few more levies, this time a merc band (didn’t get anything back at all from my ‘own’ band) was called and I spent the money on gifts to the councillors beforehand, I guess.
The Eleventh Þing of Eilif’s Reign – October 899 (a summary of advice from Chapter 74)
So the banishment tooltip is lying? Lucky for you. I haven't tried that for a while due to the apparently high penalties, but it turns out not everyone is hating Eilif for being a tyrant. Then again, they may start to not exactly like him for his questionable decisions here in ruining the realm during a probably decisive war .
Who will come out as the strongest Norse realm? Eirikr seems to have the advantage now. And the vultures are already circling (or rather raiding, as in Vanamo's case).
I think the tyrant penalty didn’t apply because there was a just cause, but don’t really know! As for the attempted subjugation – early days yet. Next session (about two chapters’ worth) just played. Both the realms are large, so any shift in war score is quite small from occupation. A few big battles may be the thing to tip the scales strategically and in terms of war score. But will they happen? And if so, any time soon? The following episodes will have to be read to find out …
Finally Eilif gets the war he so deservers, and it's a grand one. I look forward to see how all will unfold Unfortunately though this time I have no good advice for the questions, they are all from areas which I don't have much experience.
I'm pretty surprised there's no remittance from the fee of the Novgorodian band. There's been some wasted money but still at least they did some good work.
Indeed it was! And less harsh than killing him or having him die in prison. And with the added bonus that if Eilif does suffer an untimely death, Dyre can return rehabilitated and still inherit most of the demesne back off him (it appears), keeping things fairly united still.
And I tip my cap here again to @diskoerekto for the advice to do this : if I’d done it earlier, I might have had time for the one lucrative raid by sea that would have ensured a decent war chest for this Swedish subjugation. But the hunger for blood and battle was too great, as was the temptation to strike Eirikr while he was still at war in Holland. Them’s the breaks!
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Ch74 Q1. Voting.A double-barrelled question here. First, am I missing something? I’ve tried but haven’t found a way to precipitate the vote. The relevant button is greyed out in the legislation panel and the mouse-over says all the votes are still undecided, even though it’s three-three. Does Eilif just have to wait for a prompt or event to trigger? I had actually played through until mid-November and still the vote had not occurred. The second is what views are about voting for or against this proposition – if it ever comes to it. Will Tyuey get pissed off if I vote against it? Looking forward to when we may become a feudal realm, is it generally preferable in a low-income realm to vote against such things, because the levy is more valuable than any likely tax offset?
L'état c'est moi. What I mean is that I can't really answer that as I tend to play absolute rulers, and even if I don't it has been a while since I've let a councillor have a favour and force a vote .
My guess would be that the councillors were undecided, but votes trickle in slowly anyway. You should be able to pick Eilif's stance, but I can't recall where.
Hmm, there will be a follow up to this question in the next chapter – I haven’t been able to find (in game or Googling) how to make a vote on this in the interim. It’s just dragging on forever, with all the Councillors locked into their own votes months ago and just Eilif to vote. But this is my first one, so I’ve no idea how it would normally progress from here or how to bring it to a head. So if anyone has any ideas, I’ll gladly try them
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Ch74 Q2. Allies and Ships.So, as mentioned above, I’m assuming the vassal allies can't use my ships, even if they are attached to one of my armies? Note, I only realised later that there is a land bridge from Finland to Sweden proper – the little red dash wasn’t exactly prominent. But at this stage of the campaign, I was unaware.
Ah, I've just seen I meant to write 'can't' and wrote can. My assumption was they can't use my ships, hence original plan to send them north through Finland before I discovered the land bridge.
For Eilif that's no problem, but it does get annoying if you are in, say, Ireland and your landlocked vassals can't board your ships to head to whatever non-British target you are attacking .
Marching over Aland has the additional advantage to be territory with less harsh attrition, though one needs to take care not to attack over a strait-crossing. That wouldn't end well.
Yes, there’s a plan for that – we’ll see how it turns out in the next chapter! The issue is the time it’s taking to herd those cats that are the vassal allies making their slow way from the east and getting them to head there, with the other distractions that have and will occur.
Yes, it’s a bit of a pest, but in this case the land bridge to Sweden makes it a little easier. And there would have still been the long way around the top if necessary.
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Ch74 Q3: Finances.I realised I had overspent in my experiment with influencing the council earlier. I had miscalculated three things: first, not getting any remittance or discount on the hiring fee for my ‘own’ mercenary band; second, not getting any remittance back from the monthly fee; and third, the cost of maintaining the levy. With the last, previously I’d had plenty of money or hadn’t also been hiring mercenaries at the same time. I thought I’d have had longer before the money ran out, time for a few quick strikes with the mercs while the levies mustered behind. Fine in theory, butchered a bit in execution. For this question, I’ve gone ahead to show where finances stood as at 14 November: still increasing the deficit. Is there anything I can do about it? Maybe even siphon some troops off for a side-raid with the ships I now have? And how severe will the ‘morale effect' of the deficit become?
The morale effect can be decisive, it's a fairly high penalty for your troops, and if they retreat faster, they've less of a chance to come out victorious. Leaders who inflict morale damage are amongst my favourites and can really make up for enemy numbers. As the Rurikids are surrounded by defensive pagans, the effect of morale can be seen easily whenever you fight them on land of their religion - it's very important.
Yes, I looked at this in the next session and the tooltip said it was a 25% morale malus for being in debt. Not necessarily fatal, but a nasty handicap. And I’m not looking forward to any of those ‘corruption/lawlessness’ events it hints at either, but none seem to have occurred yet.
I think that toggling raids during wartime was already prohibited in the patch before HF, one of the reasons also being so that you can't use tribal armies for it. Without that option you may have the ransom one - imprison whoever you have a reason for, pray that you get good prisoners in battles/sieges.
Or a more gamey one - invite over relatively rich guys without families, and murder them. Their liege inherits their gold. You could probably attempt this on the leader of your band after disbanding it.
Even more gamey, you may pause, convert to Christianity per concubine, take a loan from the jews, expel them, and instantly convert back per capital. Though I don't know if Eilif's got the piety and prestige for that, nor if the one-second conversion would disable the subjugation (it should). Besides, it is an evil and you really shouldn't do it.
Yes, also checked this out to confirm, and no raiding whilst at war. On the gamey options, Eilif will stay true to character and just try to scrape through as things stand. Eirikr isn’t that rich either. Perhaps if it keeps going long enough, he too will run out of money and we’ll both be in the same leaky boat?
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Thanks for the comments received. As you have seen, the voting question is still unresolved, but the other two were very clear-cut.
Maybe the forums are a bit quiet right now and/or it’s a northern spring thing with people getting out and about again or people getting Imperator and having a play with that. I hope I’m not losing the audience – but will plough on regardless! Next episode should be up fairly soon.
Chapter 75: A Merry Dance (9 October 899 – 24 April 900)
Chapter 75: A Merry Dance (9 October 899 – 24 April 900)
Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … Eilif has begun his bold war of subjugation against the great fellow Norse kingdom of Sviþjod; but while it gets off to a complicated but generally favourable start, matters of money soon intrude; the treasury slips into debt and the Novgorodian Band leaves after its monthly fees are unpaid; with raiding whilst at war not possible, Eilif must hope he can complete the siege in Uppland and gain treasure from loot and hostages. Back home, irritating raiders remain in Austerbotn as the vassal regiments slowly make their way to the front. High Chief Barsbek of Chernigov has – against the expectations of many – seen off Jarl Tyueykezhut’s attempt to subjugate him; but he is a ‘Liberator’: who will he seek to liberate next?
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October 899
Eilif had little choice now but to press forward with his Swedish ambition: like a shark, he must keep swimming or drown. As the siege of Reval continued; the main Garðarikian Army under Þorsteinn had taken ship by 12 October and sailed west. A few Swedish fleets were in the general vicinity but most seemed to be sailing south-west: perhaps to pick up their main army from the recently concluded conflict in Holland? Meanwhile, the Ingrian vassal levy was heading towards Tyuey’s defeated Austerbotn regiment as it waited in Satakunta.
23 October found the fleet at anchor off the Swedish capital of Uppland. The enemy had one small company in place with another larger one from one of Eirikr’s vassal allies on the way to reinforce it. An even larger vassal ally force was north of the capital and heading further away – what might they be up to? But treasure, prisoners and bargaining power were the urgent requirement now, so Þorsteinn led his army of over 3,400 warriors ashore in an opposed landing. They would have to cope with a disadvantage from that, poor morale from having been aboard ship and a further penalty on that for being in debt and behind with pay. But risks must be taken!
While he was taking his left wing of the army ashore in Uppland, Sölvi Sverkersson’s mother Bodil af Belo died back at court in Nygarðr. She had only outlived her older husband by a short span.
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November 899
By the time the Garðarikian army was ashore and drawn up for battle in Uppland, over 550 Swedish troops opposed them. On 1 November, not liking the odds, they had tried to escape north to avoid a fight but could not get away quickly enough. The Garðarikians found their enemy on 3 November and charged with a roar. The under-manned Swedish left wing broke immediately! As they were pursued from the field, their centre division was assailed from two directions and broke just four days later. As the battle had begun, an enemy fleet of 14 longships was spotted heading toward the Gulf of Finland: they could have an army of up to 1,400 men aboard. Measures would need to be taken to neutralise the threat and ensure the siege of Reval was preserved.
In fact, that siege finished a few days later, without loss of life for the attackers.
And three days after that, the Swedish fleet appeared off Narva and landing preparations were seen. The mustering vassal regiments of Hrolfr, Tyuey and Buðli were diverted to the army currently in Reval. Between them, they should have enough to deal with any enemy landing force. And because they were being paid by their respective rulers, it was assumed their morale would not be suffering as that of the King’s levies was. Grimr was left to complete his war against Könugarðr and Vihavald’s men was almost joined with Jarl Tyuey himself in Satakunta. With the victory in Uppland assured, the fleet was sent back to the Gulf of Finland.
Ch75 Q1: Debt Morale Penalty and Vassal Ally Armies.Am I right that the morale penalty for Eilif’s forces would not apply to those of his vassal allies, who should be commanded and funded under separate arrangements? I’m hoping so, as part of my campaign plan is to eventually gather them together into a single force with one or two of my small demesne levies, install good commanders and have them carry the main fight to the Swedes, using Þorsteinn’s main force as the hammer once I can get the Swedes on the anvil. It will take a bit of management though, I know!
On 14 November Þorsteinn declared victory in Uppland and called off the pursuit. A mere seven troops had been lost with almost three hundred enemy killed: an auspicious start. The siege of the Swedish King’s tribal seat started – it was estimated to take around seven weeks. It in turn guarded the rich Temple of Uppsala.
Steward Egill brought Eilif the kingdom’s balance sheet on 14 November. They were now a little over 6 gold in debt. The costs were in the upkeep of the military: the retinue, the levies and the fleet. The deficit was currently increasing by over 4 gold per month. Marshal Hrolfr estimated this had a significant effect on the morale of the troops [ie -25% morale]. Standing down some of the levies or the fleet would save some money, but not enough the return to surplus. Plunder was needed.
Note: this is essentially the budget graphic from the finance question in the last chapter.
King Eirikr was not exactly flush with funds either according to reports. But he had a sizeable levy boosted by a tribal army called for his war in Holland and by this time four of his vassals had responded to his own calls to arms.
On 15 November, the Ingrian regiment arrived in Satakunta and Vihavald took over command from Jarl Tyuey, whose skills would be called on elsewhere. The dishonour being done by the raiders from Kemi would be avenged: even if it meant attacking over a river. They would arrive in Austerbotn on 24 December. But would they be in time to prevent the small holding from being sacked?
By 28 November the debt was at almost 11 gold. The Swedish expeditionary force had landed in Narva: and there were only 60 men! It had been an elaborate feint! Tyuey took the command of the Reval force and set off in pursuit of the small Swedish party: but it looked like they would arrive a day late, as the Swedes fled towards Pskov. They did not have enough men to threaten any Garðarikian keep by themselves. The other vassal regiments were instructed to resume course for Finland, to join Vihavald, who would have hopefully regained Austerbotn by then.
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December 899
Unfortunately, the holding in Austerbotn fell on 13 December – less than two weeks before relief could arrive. The garrison was killed and 45 silver was looted. Even more to avenge now!
“My Liege,” said the now elderly Gumarich der Schreiber one cold November afternoon in Nygarðr. “Messengers have brought word that King Zygmunt the cruel of Poland has launched a war to subjugate Curonia!” High Chief Yudki has called in his vassals but is likely to be over-matched in this contest.”
“That is not good news, though I suppose I’m hardly in a position to complain,” observed Eilif with some sense of irony. “We may need to deal with these pesky Poles at some point. Especially as they encroach on traditionally Russian lands.”
That day Tyuey’s small army of 500 men arrived in Narva to see the Swedes had scooted into Pskov and were now heading west into Livonia. Rather than chase them around the countryside, they instead took ship with the fleet, which was riding at anchor in the Gulf of Finland by then.
Vihavald’s small force closed with the Kemi raiders in Austerbotn on 25 December and began skirmishing. He hoped his advantage in numbers would offset the disadvantage of attacking across the small river the Kemi had drawn up behind.
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January 900
The turn of a new century (by Christian reckoning) soon brought a series of interesting events and reports. On 3 January, Uppland fell: and a large haul of non-combatant prisoners was taken – five in all. Three were concubines, which it seemed Eirikr was unwilling to ransom. But he must have just married a new bride very recently – because the 16 year old Queen Bodil of SviÞjod was found hiding under a bed! One other noble prisoner was taken, a child: and Jarl Bertil seemed very willing to pay 10 gold for her speedy release! The young queen would be held while the child was ransomed first. With the debt at 12 gold and climbing (even after looting 2 gold from the keep), the two ransoms would be very useful indeed. Some men had been lost during the siege, but that was to be expected. A few less pays would need to be drawn, it was supposed.
But back in Reval, the small Swedish raiding force had turned up in Tartu: and it was realised they would have just enough troops to be able to besiege the recently won holding, as the local garrison was only 34 strong.
“Damn!” snarled Tyuey when he heard this. He had only just finished embarking his men. “Unload again! These insects are proving to be mighty irritating!”
Barsbek’s next target was soon known: he felt he was ready enough to invade the traditional regional punching bag – poor old Halfdan the Ill-Ruler of Könugarðr!
And it seemed Chieftess Vanamo was quite an astute commander: as Vihavald gradually gained the upper hand, she found some good ground to narrow the front as the melee phase of the battle ground on. But while this happened, the reinforcements from the south were making their way from Kexholm to reinforce Vihavald in his drawn-out struggle against the Kemi.
Thinking the various wars in the north and on the Russian plains were big news, on 10 January, 900AD, news came form far Rome that it seemed could change the world as the peoples of Europe and their neighbours knew it. The Christians had declared a new age of Holy War to defend their heathen faith! They called these wars ‘Crusades’, after the cross that was their chief religious symbol.
“Foolish posturing!” cried Eilif when he heard of this. But time would tell whether it was more than that: Pope Nicolaus II called it the age of Crusader Kings.
And over the next few days, reports came in from all over ‘Christendom’ (as they liked to refer to their religious domain). The general commentary went from bravado to at last some worry as order after order of Christian Holy Warriors was founded. They were specifically pledged to fight for Roman Catholic rulers who could pay for their services to fight ‘infidels and heathens’. Which, outrageously, they considered the followers of the Old Gods of the Germanic faith to be. This drove Eilif even harder to win his current war and so bring his own faith closer to reform so it could better confront this militant Catholic challenge, should it turn their way.
Closer to home, the ransom for young Ulfhildr was received on 12 January and with her went an offer for Eirikr to ransom his young wife. This was duly accepted on 16 January – and the realm’s finances were back in the black again – for a while, anyway. And given the strife between the two Norse realms, at least the exchange of letters was very polite and respectful. In other circumstances, these aren’t bad men, thought Eilif. And he did want them to become his subjects, after all.
Towards the end of January, the first of the vassal regiments – from Jarl Buðli of Belo Ozero – arrived in Austerbotn and this had quickly decided the battle. By 28 January it was all over. The Kemi, defeated now, would not be back any time soon to raid more Garðarikian lands.
In Reval, it was decided to split the army in two. Eilif himself would take command of the Narva Tribe to secure the rear lines. Tyuey would take the Huscarls and the one surviving member of Rurik’s old company [the special event troops from the start of the game]and take them back to sea and to the war further west.
At this point, it was decided to lower the reinforcement rate for the Huscarls [from full to half], which would save around 1 gold per month. [I hadn’t thought of this before.]
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February 900
The Temple of Uppsala fell on 10 February. No more prisoners were taken, but the rich complex yielded a very useful haul of loot, which would give a little more time of surplus, as well as beefing up Eilif’s negotiating position in the war.
At this point, Þorsteinn split his force in Sweden, the more quickly to reduce enemy holdings. Sölvi was given the command of the smaller of the two forces and headed north. Þorsteinn went south-west. The two forces would however stay near each other, so they could link up again should the Swede’s main force appear. Vihavald would try to bring the rest of the vassal regiments with him to Finland and then over to Sweden via Åland. Tyuey would take his small force to the Sea ofÅland and perhaps try to take the island, or at least hold it and serve as another rallying point for the vassal regiments of necessary.
Back home, knowledge of siege equipment rose in both Ladoga[to Level 1 on 17 February] and in Torzhok[Level 1 on 20 February]. Technological development, inspired by the decades-long mission to Constantinople, was near and dear to the hearts of Rurikid rulers and it was good to see it spreading out gradually within the heart of the realm.
On 23 February, Sölvi arrived in Gästrikland and set up his siege works. It would take close to three months to reduce the fort there. Jarl Tyuey was taking his small force ashore in Åland.
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March 900
Þorsteinn began what should be a shorter siege in Vestmannaland on 4 March. A small Swedish vassal company to the west would not cause any problems. He was on the lookout for the main Swedish army which, when it came, would probably head this way back to Uppland.
“King Eilif, Sumarliði Olafrsson is here and has asked to see you on a ‘personal matter’. He is quite insistent.”
Was he after a job? The vote had still not been held in the Council, so no change could be made. Surely it wasn’t going to be something of a more, er, familiar nature?
Ch75 Q2: Vote Delay - Still.I know I’ve asked before, but this is getting ridiculous – given everyone else had voted months ago and only the King needs to cast his tie-breaker and can’t … can this go on for years? Is there really no way of breaking the deadlock by bringing it on? Or is the game bugged?
“My King, thank you for seeing me. I have just left the side of my wife, Ingjerðr Hrörekrsdottir. Her father has just this afternoon lost his fight against this canker that has wearied him these last years. He is now in the halls of his forefathers.”
The last links to old King Rurik’s reign keep falling away. Hrörekr, Chancellor until replaced by Jarl Tyuey, managed to make it to 65. [Despite dying randomly years ago in that small passage of play I had to restart when the HF patch killed my save game! The Gods weren’t finished with him yet.]
One day later, news came from the land of the Christians: these Crusades were real enough. One had been called against the Muslims over Jerusalem. One set of infidels pitted against another – that’s a relief. Long may their focus remain in that direction and not to the north.
Finances by then were approaching dangerous levels again. They were down to 6 gold and there would be deficit again within a couple of months. The fleet, having dropped Tyuey off in Åland (where he did not have enough troops yet to properly besiege it) was ordered back to Narva, with the intention of dismissing it to save a few more gold. It could be called up again in an emergency, though there would be a delay assembling it.
Ch75 Q3: Fleet Disbandment.I’ve assumed here that like disbanding troops while not in country, dismissing a fleet while it is at sea may also lead to losses. Is the mechanic the same, or doesn’t it matter with fleets?
Then on 17 March, the main Swedish army finally appeared. Around 3,500 of them were spotted in Austergautland marching to Sudermanland, from where they could either head to the capital or turn on Þorsteinn in Vestmannaland. Sölvi was ordered to break his siege and rejoin forces with his overall invasion commander. Eilif’s vassals were still some way off gathering in Finland: it was a slow and circuitous process. The hoped-for pincer trap was not yet ready to spring.
When the Swedes arrived in Sudermanland on 30 April, they chose to ignore Þorsteinn and head straight for Uppland. Þorsteinn opted to continue his siege in Vestmannaland and see what Bishop Sigbjörn (a Christian commanding a Norse army? Outrageous!) would do. [I checked and Eirkr is still Germanic.]
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April 900
A welter of events occurred in mid-April. First, word came that an adventurer’s raiding party had struck the Swedish island of Gotland on 11 April. Excellent! On 13 April, the Swedes made it to Uppland – and kept marching east, to Åland. Tyuey didn’t have the men to resist nor the time to get across the strait to Finland before the Swedes would arrive. Fortunately, the fleet was still nearby, so he began boarding them instead, which would get them away with six days to spare. Simultaneously, Þorsteinn completed his siege of Vestmannaland and, Sölvi having re-joined him some days before, he decided to march in behind the Swedes. Either it may distract them and give more time for the vassal army to appear in Finland, or at least they would be close enough if they followed them to be in a position to complete the planned pincer attack at some later point.
On 18 April, the Swedes took the bait: they turned around and moved to attack Þorsteinn. After considering his options, he found a destination he could make it to a day or two before the Swedes could reach him in Vestmannaland. He would head to Nerike in the hope of leading the Swedes in a merry dance around their own country! At that point, the main body (though not the complete complement) of the vassals' army, with Vihavald leading, was in Satakunta and making for Finland.
The royal treasury was back in debt by 22 April – even more reason for Þorsteinn to keep avoiding a set battle against the pursuing Swedes. The Huscarls were on the ships and now beginning to unload in Finland, where the lead elements of the reinforcing army had begun to gather (only 330 men as yet).
On 24 April the Queen Mother announced yet another discovery of knowledge in Constantinople, this time in cultural matters – but not enough for another technology to be revealed. Ingjerðr had recently turned 50 and a miniature of her at the time showed she had seemingly aged in appearance overnight!
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Questions
Ch75 Q1: Debt Morale Penalty and Vassal Ally Armies.Am I right that the morale penalty for Eilif’s forces would not apply to those of his vassal allies, who should be commanded and funded under separate arrangements? I’m hoping so, as part of my campaign plan is to eventually gather them together into a single force with one or two of my small demesne levies, install good commanders and have them carry the main fight to the Swedes, using Þorsteinn’s main force as the hammer once I can get the Swedes on the anvil. It will take a bit of management though, I know!
Ch75 Q2: Vote Delay - Still.I know I’ve asked before, but this is getting ridiculous – given everyone else had voted months ago and only the King needs to cast his tie-breaker and can’t … can this go on for years? Is there really no way of breaking the deadlock by bringing it on? Or is the game bugged?
Ch75 Q3: Fleet Disbandment.I’ve assumed here that like disbanding troops while not in country, dismissing a fleet while it is at sea may also lead to losses. Is the mechanic the same, or doesn’t it matter with fleets?
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The Temple in Uppsala remained under Eilif’s occupation for now – one of the five Germanic Holy Sites. It made him feel closer to the goal cherished by the Rurikids of one day reforming the Germanic faith. Especially now the Christians were becoming more militant against those who did not share their beliefs. While they may not declare a crusade against the Norse, local rulers could be more likely to call for holy wars to advance their aims – and bring one of those new Holy Orders in to help them.
And I tip my cap here again to @diskoerekto for the advice to do this : if I’d done it earlier, I might have had time for the one lucrative raid by sea that would have ensured a decent war chest for this Swedish subjugation. But the hunger for blood and battle was too great, as was the temptation to strike Eirikr while he was still at war in Holland. Them’s the breaks!
23 October found the fleet at anchor off the Swedish capital of Uppland. The enemy had one small company in place with another larger one from one of Eirikr’s vassal allies on the way to reinforce it. A even larger vassal ally force was north of the capital and heading further away – what might they be up to? But treasure, prisoners and bargaining power were the urgent requirement now, so Þorsteinn led his army of over 3,400 warriors ashore in an opposed landing. They would have to cope with a disadvantage from that, poor morale from having been aboard ship and a further penalty on that for being in debt and behind with pay. But risks must be taken!
The last links to old King Rurik’s reign keep falling away. Hrörekr, Chancellor until replaced by Jarl Tyuey, managed to make it to 65. [Despite dying randomly years ago in that small passage of play I had to restart when the HF patch killed my save game! The Gods weren’t finished with him yet.]
The Temple in Uppsala remained under Eilif’s occupation for now – one of the five Germanic Holy Sites. It made him feel closer to the goal cherished by the Rurikids of one day reforming the Germanic faith. Especially now the Christians were becoming more militant against those who did not share their beliefs. While they may not declare a crusade against the Norse, local rulers could be more likely to call for holy wars to advance their aims – and bring one of those new Holy Orders in to help them.
Victory seems at hand, let's hope gods favor us and we win this war. Then we'll be just conquering a single neighboring province away from having all 3 sites at hand. With the crusades beginning though, we must make haste and hope our current enemy future vassal Swedes to hold Zeeland. Great episode, and seems like even better ones are on their way Thanks for your excellent writing.
Now the hot phase of the war begins. The armies are nearly in position, the decisive battle is coming nearer. The best bet would probably be to bait Eirikr's bishop to attack in his blind Christian fury across the strait to Åland or Finland, but that won't be easy.
Well, at least said fury is directed against Jerusalem. (How's the religious situation of Germany's rulers? It seems that this is responsible for triggering the crusades.)
Ch75 Q1: Debt Morale Penalty and Vassal Ally Armies.Am I right that the morale penalty for Eilif’s forces would not apply to those of his vassal allies, who should be commanded and funded under separate arrangements? I’m hoping so, as part of my campaign plan is to eventually gather them together into a single force with one or two of my small demesne levies, install good commanders and have them carry the main fight to the Swedes, using Þorsteinn’s main force as the hammer once I can get the Swedes on the anvil. It will take a bit of management though, I know!
Ch75 Q2: Vote Delay - Still.I know I’ve asked before, but this is getting ridiculous – given everyone else had voted months ago and only the King needs to cast his tie-breaker and can’t … can this go on for years? Is there really no way of breaking the deadlock by bringing it on? Or is the game bugged?
You could check the voting panel - I am fairly sure that you can cast your vote somewhere. It should be either in the laws tab or in 'my council', where you can check the votes. Everyone else than Eilif has already voted, after all.
Ch75 Q3: Fleet Disbandment.I’ve assumed here that like disbanding troops while not in country, dismissing a fleet while it is at sea may also lead to losses. Is the mechanic the same, or doesn’t it matter with fleets?
You could check the voting panel - I am fairly sure that you can cast your vote somewhere. It should be either in the laws tab or in 'my council', where you can check the votes.
I've checked it time after time. If there's anything I can click to do that, then it's defied my every attempt to find it, on any of the council or legal screens.
I ran a dummy game (1066 HRE) and initiated a council vote on something similar, and it all worked plainly and fairly quickly. I never got any of those initial screens or options in this vote.
I think I read on a wiki or thread somewhere that if the vote is initiated by a council member via a favour then you are bound vote in favour of it (there I assume never getting something you can click to vote yourself). All I have is the progress screen one undecided vote, but the other six council members yes or no, and the clickable icon that tells you 'who is undecided' showing a blank screen.
PS: Interestingly though, while the voting screen says they're all decided, the little icons on the council screen for each one has them all as 'undecided' (the little question mark icon). That is, there's an obvious mismatch between what the the two screens are saying.
As questions to the wider readership who may be veterans of many council votes:
Have you ever been the subject of one of these member-initiated votes?
If so, how did it end?
How long did it take?
More generally, in votes you may have initiated yourself (talking here specifically about changes to realm obligations, but anything welcome) how long do they typically take?
What is the longest you can recall a vote taking?
Have you ever had something like this happen? If so, were you ever able to fix it, and how?
Or should I just find the right discussion thread to pose this question or submit a bug report? Because my gut feel is there's something broken in the game (or this one, anyway)
I have never encountered this, but a search shows some similar experiences of other people. This one didn't receive any answers. There is a discussion here, and the commetor on this one says he's avoiding giving favors to councillers like the plague because then they start a voting and this happens and the timeout period is 36 months. I don't know how accurate this info is, but that's what I could find. Another discussion made me feel like we should keep the council as powerless as possible until the end of the game.
While I was visiting Wiki the Red, I also came up with this feudalism checklist: Castle Infrastructure I tech -> Stone Hillfort in capital: 4th level fort after Earth, Wooden and Reinforced Hillforts for a total of 375 gold. I don't remember where we're at this and our tech level. Absolute Tribal Organization: I think we're on 2nd level and we need to go 3 more levels. There needs to be a voting (making a more loyal council would be good for this) but can be made only every 5 years so if it's been more than 5 years when we last increased this, we can do it again. I hope the stupid stuck voting thingy doesn't block this but I have a bad feeling about it. Religious Reformation: After subjugating Svithjod, we only need to take the neighboring province (Naumadal?) from Noregr to achieve the 3 holy sites. If there aren't temples on the other 2 we should build them for I think 500 gold each to achieve 50% religious authority (20% base, 5% each from having the holy sites and 5% each from having temples in them). If our religious authority is high enough (from conquering infidel provinces and looting infidel temples) we might get away with only 1 temple. What is the religious authority status now? We also need 750 piety.
One last thing to note is that we'll lose the subjugation CB so if it's another king than Eilif, we should make sure to use the subjugation before reformation. Also, having already created an
empire will give more stability that might be necessary.
Well, if the "royalty" gig ends up not working out, Eilif may be able to get a job as a prognosticator -- he's just summed up a thousand years of Eastern European history in two sentences
Barsbek’s next target was soon known: he felt he was ready enough to invade the traditional regional punching bag – poor old Halfdan the Ill-Ruler of Könugarðr!
At this point, it was decided to lower the reinforcement rate for the Huscarls [from full to half], which would save around 1 gold per month. [I hadn’t thought of this before.]
Ch75 Q1: Debt Morale Penalty and Vassal Ally Armies.Am I right that the morale penalty for Eilif’s forces would not apply to those of his vassal allies, who should be commanded and funded under separate arrangements? I’m hoping so, as part of my campaign plan is to eventually gather them together into a single force with one or two of my small demesne levies, install good commanders and have them carry the main fight to the Swedes, using Þorsteinn’s main force as the hammer once I can get the Swedes on the anvil. It will take a bit of management though, I know!
Ch75 Q2: Vote Delay - Still.I know I’ve asked before, but this is getting ridiculous – given everyone else had voted months ago and only the King needs to cast his tie-breaker and can’t … can this go on for years? Is there really no way of breaking the deadlock by bringing it on? Or is the game bugged?
In tandem with @diskoerekto, I'm thinking this is most likely a bug. I can't think of being caught in a similar predicament before, but then I also try to avoid giving out Favors to council members unless the alternative is sufficiently dire.
Ch75 Q3: Fleet Disbandment.I’ve assumed here that like disbanding troops while not in country, dismissing a fleet while it is at sea may also lead to losses. Is the mechanic the same, or doesn’t it matter with fleets?
Victory seems at hand, let's hope gods favor us and we win this war. Then we'll be just conquering a single neighboring province away from having all 3 sites at hand. With the crusades beginning though, we must make haste and hope our current enemy future vassal Swedes to hold Zeeland. Great episode, and seems like even better ones are on their way Thanks for your excellent writing.
Now the hot phase of the war begins. The armies are nearly in position, the decisive battle is coming nearer. The best bet would probably be to bait Eirikr's bishop to attack in his blind Christian fury across the strait to Åland or Finland, but that won't be easy.
Well, at least said fury is directed against Jerusalem. (How's the religious situation of Germany's rulers? It seems that this is responsible for triggering the crusades.)
According to the religion map, a large part is still under Hungarian rule and Orthodox is probably dominant, Catholicism next but still quite a strong Pagan Slavic presence in the east and overlapping with Poland. Then there’s the Swedish Dutch enclave, where most is Catholic but one of the counties is Norse. I haven’t surveyed the various leaders in any detail.
Well, if the "royalty" gig ends up not working out, Eilif may be able to get a job as a prognosticator -- he's just summed up a thousand years of Eastern European history in two sentences
Yes, it took running out of money to really figure that out. Sounds like a reprise of youthful budgeting lessons learned the hard way! Or, when it’s rock stars, never learned!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch75 Q1: Debt Morale Penalty and Vassal Ally Armies.Am I right that the morale penalty for Eilif’s forces would not apply to those of his vassal allies, who should be commanded and funded under separate arrangements? I’m hoping so, as part of my campaign plan is to eventually gather them together into a single force with one or two of my small demesne levies, install good commanders and have them carry the main fight to the Swedes, using Þorsteinn’s main force as the hammer once I can get the Swedes on the anvil. It will take a bit of management though, I know!
This is a relief, as I’ll be relying on them heavily.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch75 Q2: Vote Delay - Still.I know I’ve asked before, but this is getting ridiculous – given everyone else had voted months ago and only the King needs to cast his tie-breaker and can’t … can this go on for years? Is there really no way of breaking the deadlock by bringing it on? Or is the game bugged?
You could check the voting panel - I am fairly sure that you can cast your vote somewhere. It should be either in the laws tab or in 'my council', where you can check the votes. Everyone else than Eilif has already voted, after all.
I have never encountered this, but a search shows some similar experiences of other people. This one didn't receive any answers. There is a discussion here, and the commetor on this one says he's avoiding giving favors to councillers like the plague because then they start a voting and this happens and the timeout period is 36 months. I don't know how accurate this info is, but that's what I could find. Another discussion made me feel like we should keep the council as powerless as possible until the end of the game.
While I was visiting Wiki the Red, I also came up with this feudalism checklist:
Castle Infrastructure I tech -> Stone Hillfort in capital: 4th level fort after Earth, Wooden and Reinforced Hillforts for a total of 375 gold. I don't remember where we're at this and our tech level.
Absolute Tribal Organization: I think we're on 2nd level and we need to go 3 more levels. There needs to be a voting (making a more loyal council would be good for this) but can be made only every 5 years so if it's been more than 5 years when we last increased this, we can do it again. I hope the stupid stuck voting thingy doesn't block this but I have a bad feeling about it.
Religious Reformation: After subjugating Svithjod, we only need to take the neighboring province (Naumadal?) from Noregr to achieve the 3 holy sites. If there aren't temples on the other 2 we should build them for I think 500 gold each to achieve 50% religious authority (20% base, 5% each from having the holy sites and 5% each from having temples in them). If our religious authority is high enough (from conquering infidel provinces and looting infidel temples) we might get away with only 1 temple. What is the religious authority status now? We also need 750 piety.
One last thing to note is that we'll lose the subjugation CB so if it's another king than Eilif, we should make sure to use the subjugation before reformation. Also, having already created an empire will give more stability that might be necessary.
Thanks for the readings. Let's hope there's at least a vote timeout period - there will be another event that may affect this detailed in the coming chapter. Too late now with empowering the council. I'll just have to grit the teeth and 'keep learning' - the hard way.
Re feudalism, I know I have to achieve those milestones. At least there is already a stone fort in the capital. Of course, if the Council is permanently stuck, it will make it hard to get the Tribal Org increasing! And yes, for the Reform, Rurik researched this once but thanks for the reminder. Eilif will be considering the requirement again, also in this forthcoming chapter.
In tandem with @diskoerekto, I'm thinking this is most likely a bug. I can't think of being caught in a similar predicament before, but then I also try to avoid giving out Favors to council members unless the alternative is sufficiently dire.
I hope it’s a bug that eventually buzzes off, as I’m not sure I have any effective bug spray to apply. And yes, I’ll be careful before granting another favour to a Councillor.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch75 Q3: Fleet Disbandment.I’ve assumed here that like disbanding troops while not in country, dismissing a fleet while it is at sea may also lead to losses. Is the mechanic the same, or doesn’t it matter with fleets?
Glad I thought of it before hitting the button. Burned once is enough on this mechanic!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
My sincere thanks for those who are still commenting and offering advice. As before, I’m hoping this is one of those quieter periods on the Forums (I think it’s been fairly quiet across a range of threads of late). So I will soldier on! Next session played, editing in progress. Some interesting developments, too.
I hope it’s a bug that eventually buzzes off, as I’m not sure I have any effective bug spray to apply. And yes, I’ll be careful before granting another favour to a Councillor.
Unfortunately though this time I have no good advice for the questions, they are all from areas which I don't have much experience.
