[Megathread] Monumental Thread

[AledlePieux]

@Pavía sorry if I missed the proposal in the thread, but why don't you cross-feed the loading screens and the monuments to optimize artist time?

The loading screens seem to be composed of three images: the frame, a leader and a landscape. Very often the landscape is a monument and could be easily reused to portrait it in game. E.g.: the brandenburger gate is already there, Dome on the Rock / Jerusalem also, the big polish Castle I keep forgetting the name off also, St. Basils cathedral in Moscow...

The other way round, if the images used for the monument also exist in high quality format, you could improve some of the loading screen. E.g. Louis XIV could have Versailles instead of a random countryside and Catherine the Great something better than frozen wastelands.

You could also use this approach to prioritize future monument: William of Orange (or another Dutch king?) stands in front of a rather basic landscape with windmill. Maybe there could be a Dutch monument for the game and for the loading screen?

That could help focusing the artist time on brand new monuments and images by reusing the already amazing ones done for the loading screens or the monuments themselves.

 

[Knight of the Black Rose]

Just so it is consolidated in this megathread, I'd like to reiterate my suggestion from a different thread towards making a wonder out of Bibliotheca Corviniana, which can also be tied to its mission (although the means both Emperor and Leviathan are required for it, I still think it would be a nice touch). It would remedy its measly 20 years bonus from the mission (I prefer smaller, but more long term bonuses while avoiding power creep) and also be a refreshment from all those castle and church monuments. I was also built not long into the game, making it especially fitting compared to out-of-timeframe castles some nations unfortunetly got, while also giving more flavour to Central-Eastern Europe. Its possible bonuses could be:
Tech cost reduction
Idea cost reduction (these are also given by the mission)
Institution spread
Reform progress growth
perhaps Dip rep/improve relations (representing foreign scholars coming for visits), but obviously these arent all needed and are suggested just to give some general concept.

Its destruction also is fitting for a reduction of tier mechanic upon changing hands, and its upgrades are also a straightforward expansion of the library, which unfortunately didnt happen in real life due to the Ottoman conquest.

I just learned this library by your post and checked to wiki page but got be surprised because it says Turks burned those books and destroyed the library. Since we know Ottoman Empire as humanist empire (comparing the European ones) for those years, it was interesting. Turks didn't even destroy the churches on lands they conquered and more than that they preserved them in one way or another until they lost those lands. So it is 2x interesting for me...

Anyway i checked the Russian wiki to learn more because it has silver star so more quality than English one. Then saw the part "the books were transferred to Istanbul and Turks used those books as presents to European diplomats, monarchs."

LOL. Anti-Turkism in English wiki never fails. Not even once...

 

[Josar]

One thing, I find odd, is that other than Saint Peter:s Basilica, Italy has no other monuments.

It would seem that Saint Marks's in Venice would be a perfect addition at a later date.

 

[Kane_hun]

I just learned this library by your post and checked to wiki page but got be surprised because it says Turks burned those books and destroyed the library. Since we know Ottoman Empire as humanist empire (comparing the European ones) for those years, it was interesting. Turks didn't even destroy the churches on lands they conquered and more than that they preserved them in one way or another until they lost those lands. So it is 2x interesting for me...

Anyway i checked the Russian wiki to learn more because it has silver star so more quality than English one. Then saw the part "the books were transferred to Istanbul and Turks used those books as presents to European diplomats, monarchs."

LOL. Anti-Turkism in English wiki never fails. Not even once...

Sadly the english wiki articles are often not the best, but since the forums use English, I linked the english page. (Although I couldnt find the part about the books being burned, the wiki states "The books were transferred to Istanbul after the Hungarian defeat by the Ottomans in the Battle of Mohács in 1526.". As for the library, after the books were taken away, it ceased to exist, so it was indeed destroyed.)
Most of the books werent destroyed, but instead transferred to Istanbul as loot (and after the death of Mathias, some were simply taken away by various people), and one could argue this could be neatly represented by the monument transfer mechanic (although many books were lost as well, and the transferred ones werent used in their "intended" way, but as a gifts, as you have cited).

 

[Knight of the Black Rose]

Sadly the english wiki articles are often not the best, but since the forums use English, I linked the english page. (Although I couldnt find the part about the books being burned, the wiki states "The books were transferred to Istanbul after the Hungarian defeat by the Ottomans in the Battle of Mohács in 1526.". As for the library, after the books were taken away, it ceased to exist, so it was indeed destroyed.)
Most of the books werent destroyed, but instead transferred to Istanbul as loot (and after the death of Mathias, some were simply taken away by various people), and one could argue this could be neatly represented by the monument transfer mechanic (although many books were lost as well, and the transferred ones werent used in their "intended" way, but as a gifts, as you have cited).

because i edited that by looking to russian one, you quoted my words but do you know it was reverted by some anti-turk wiki admin with the reason: vandalizm LOL.

english wikipedia and reddit europa, these are officially anti-turk sources unfortunately.

i mean i am not saying ottomans were perfect but book burning is just a bullshit.

 

[Shogun96]

One thing, I find odd, is that other than Saint Peter:s Basilica, Italy has no other monuments.

It would seem that Saint Marks's in Venice would be a perfect addition at a later date.

I believe they are considering adding Santa Maria del Fiore (Florence's famous cathedral)

 

[TheMajordomo]

I recommend that the Forbidden City be available to the Emperor of China, regardless of religion or culture. Maybe a country owning Beijing without being the Emperor of China can build the monument if they have the correct religion and culture. But yeah, the Emperor should always get it.

 

[iClipse]

Two more suggestions:
1) Make the AI less likely to agree to charter province when there is a monument in it. Currently it's just super easy to charter monuments and get all their goodies without actually putting in any effort, other than ducats.
2) Not sure if already reported/suggested: but it seems the 'monument completed' event only fires on the specific time it would have been completed if you didn't speed up the construction. At least it felt that the event fired years after completing the monuments.

 

[Pavía]

@Pavía sorry if I missed the proposal in the thread, but why don't you cross-feed the loading screens and the monuments to optimize artist time?

The loading screens seem to be composed of three images: the frame, a leader and a landscape. Very often the landscape is a monument and could be easily reused to portrait it in game. E.g.: the brandenburger gate is already there, Dome on the Rock / Jerusalem also, the big polish Castle I keep forgetting the name off also, St. Basils cathedral in Moscow...

The other way round, if the images used for the monument also exist in high quality format, you could improve some of the loading screen. E.g. Louis XIV could have Versailles instead of a random countryside and Catherine the Great something better than frozen wastelands.

You could also use this approach to prioritize future monument: William of Orange (or another Dutch king?) stands in front of a rather basic landscape with windmill. Maybe there could be a Dutch monument for the game and for the loading screen?

That could help focusing the artist time on brand new monuments and images by reusing the already amazing ones done for the loading screens or the monuments themselves.

This is a good idea, and something we already started considering for the new additions (as Brandenburg Gate and Jerusalem Old City were proposed in the community contest, e.g.).

One thing, I find odd, is that other than Saint Peter:s Basilica, Italy has no other monuments.

It would seem that Saint Marks's in Venice would be a perfect addition at a later date.

I believe they are considering adding Santa Maria del Fiore (Florence's famous cathedral)

Yes, we considered to add more monuments in Italy, and our preferred one was Santa Maria del Fiore, which was also proposed in the contest. That would be the next one added to Italy when possible, although we've got other interesting suggestions in mind, too.

 

[Shogun96]

This is a good idea, and something we already started considering for the new additions (as Brandenburg Gate and Jerusalem Old City were proposed in the community contest, e.g.).


Yes, we considered to add more monuments in Italy, and our preferred one was Santa Maria del Fiore, which was also proposed in the contest. That would be the next one added to Italy when possible, although we've got other interesting suggestions in mind, too.

Which kind of effects would you put to Santa Maria del fiore?

 

[Me_]

I think Grand Canal of China would be hard to implement, as we're not really using lakes as sea provinces in the game, and it's also difficult to lock it to only one province. We have other interesting suggestions in Chinese region though, as you could see with Porcelain Tower of Nanjing in the new monuments voting.

That's a bit of a bummer. It's not rally about China, it already has 2 monuments, it's about I would say design.

I know that EU4 isn't really meant for new players, but having a canal that is available at the start would be a good way to show how they work to players before they reach the end game and can build the other ones. It would be a bit like how English Monarchy allows one to play with parliament long before parliaments become available to other nations.

I thought of the way it could work and I think it could be split into two monuments with smaller effects and preferably cheaper upgrades. The Suez canal effectively covers 2 provinces, so with a little creativity 2 Grand Canal sections could cover 4 or even 5 provinces and connect 2 lakes to sea.

Yet another though for the eventual EU5 then.

 

[gougluinn]

if paris has both versailles and notre dame then istanbul must have great walls of constantine and either sultan ahmet mosque or süleymaniye mosque which makes 3 monument. if paris has 2 because of different timelines walls of constantine could be just a decision.

 

[Pavía]

Which kind of effects would you put to Santa Maria del fiore?

Well, we'll see when the moment comes.

That's a bit of a bummer. It's not rally about China, it already has 2 monuments, it's about I would say design.

I know that EU4 isn't really meant for new players, but having a canal that is available at the start would be a good way to show how they work to players before they reach the end game and can build the other ones. It would be a bit like how English Monarchy allows one to play with parliament long before parliaments become available to other nations.

I thought of the way it could work and I think it could be split into two monuments with smaller effects and preferably cheaper upgrades. The Suez canal effectively covers 2 provinces, so with a little creativity 2 Grand Canal sections could cover 4 or even 5 provinces and connect 2 lakes to sea.

Yet another though for the eventual EU5 then.

That's an interesting approach, I have to say. But getting navigable lakes is not in our near-future development plans, so in any case it would have to wait. Thanks for your suggestion, anyway, it's taken into account.

if paris has both versailles and notre dame then istanbul must have great walls of constantine and either sultan ahmet mosque or süleymaniye mosque which makes 3 monument. if paris has 2 because of different timelines walls of constantine could be just a decision.

Sultan Ahmed and Süleymaniye Mosques have been already proposed by other forum members, and are in our possible suggestions list. Anyway, regarding the ones that could be added in the future, we already have some criteria for analyzing which are the most interesting ones, so we'll see it those are fit for them.

 

[karasis65]

How about adding a monument in Hisnkayfa. The old bridge seems really promising. The cidatel is also looking good. This would also commemorate the city since it very recently got destroyed.

Old Bridge

Hasankeyf archeological sites

 

[wobarch]

it would also be great if there would be a little tooltip explaining the monument itself (for example, why the haiga sophia is so important), you do that in a lot of other ways, it would be cool, if you could add that at least for the new monuments

 

[LuPoNe]

because i edited that by looking to russian one, you quoted my words but do you know it was reverted by some anti-turk wiki admin with the reason: vandalizm LOL.

english wikipedia and reddit europa, these are officially anti-turk sources unfortunately.

i mean i am not saying ottomans were perfect but book burning is just a bullshit.

On the Italian wiki it states that the majority of the texts were destroyed, and the surviving ones were transfered to Costantinopoli (Istanbul). Those were nearly 650 codex that were found by a Hungarian delegation in 1862 and were preserved in major Hungarian and European libraries.

It also goes in more depth about the nature of the codexes, and the wiki page was last updated in 2019.

 

[LuPoNe]

While reading the dev diary and seeing the newly coming monuments and the widespread love for more monuments coming to my home nation (Italy), one major strategic building came to my mind that fits perfectly in the EU4 timeframe: the Castle (or Fortress) of Gaeta, having the size of 14.100m2 (14 square kilometers).

Gaeta is located towards the south of Italy, in the southern part of Lazio, and it's at the peak of a long promontory that is domineering towards the gulf of Gaeta and it was heavily strategic for the Kingdom of Naples, as it provided a fortress both for land control (only the coastal provinces were good land, as the mainland before the appennines mostly consisted in swamps) but also very important for the naval control, protecting the docked fleets and the coasts.

The fortress itself was built in two historic periods, following an initlial fort built by the Longobards, it was then developed by the Anjou (under Louis II, titular king of Naples, married with Yolande of Aragon, before his kingdom of Provence passed to his brother René after his death and the death of his young son Louis III) with an initial fortress which was then expanded under the Aragonese rule since it was reconqured by Alfons V of Aragon in 1442 restoring the union of the Kingdom of Naples and Sicily, and after a few tumultuous years after his death, the kingdom was assigned to Ferdinand II of Aragon that, under the shadow of the HRE Emperor Charles V, did a series of structural and military investments in the kingdom, including the new addition to the Castle of Gaeta, with an adjacent bigger Castle making it a Castle complex (hence why I named it Fortress).

Here's a picture of the adjoining Castles:

EDIT: I'm leaving my comment below untouched, but as I watched the EU4 map again I see the Garigliano River portrayed correctly showing the correct location of the Provincia di Lavoro thus placing Gaeta in the province of Napoli, even though in the Italian contouring there's no visualization of this gulf, which is right before Naples' one.

Also, diverging, in the game this monument should be located where Gaeta is, and as it is right now its physical location would be where the province of Terracina is, since southern Lazio was divided: from Terracina going south there was the Kingdom of Naples provice of "Terra di Lavoro - Campania Felix" (historical pic below) and Terracina was a trading city with a tumultuous history that wasn't always part of the Papacy.
The province of Terra di Lavoro spanned from southern Lazio and ending right before Naples, but I understand that you can't make thousands of provinces and sometimes you need to cut corners so naming it Napoli in the game is also fitting.

https://www.lapuntaseccastampeantic...A/0A0A/B016/8300/provincia_terra_lavoro_2.jpg

This image from Wikipedia dated 1660 shows Napoli as part of it though:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...erra_di_Lavoro_olim_Campania_Felix_-_1660.png

I just wanted to share my thoughts with you all, thanks for reading!

 

[Muelleri]

My suggestion for Korean monument: Gyeongbok palace.

Wiki link of Gyeongbok palace: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyeongbokgung

I suggest Gyeongbok palace as monument for Korean Hanseong province.
Gyeongbok palace was the main and the largest royal palace of Joseon dynasty for 200 years after founding and also it is interesting choice for new monument system.

-Brief history

After founding of Joseon kingdom at 1392, Gyeongbok palace was built in 1395 and used as main palace of Joseon dynasty. The palace was burnt several times before 1592 but it was reconstructed and used as palace.

At 1592 during the japanese invasion of Joseon, after king Seon-jo escaped from capital it was burnt to the ground. (It seems furious korean people burnt the palace but some say japanese army burnt the palace. It’s not clear who actually burnt the palace.) After this fire, Gyeongbok palace was abandoned for 270 years and Joseon dynasty’s kings used Changdeok palace as main palace. (Some kings used the palace site for ceremony but building was not reconstructed.) The reason of abandoning was a huge sum of money for reconstruction and geomantic theory.

Finally the palace was reconstructed at 1867 (out of eu4 age), but this reconstruction costed a lot of money so it induced hyperinflation of Joseon and it was the main reason of downfall of king’s father(Heungseon Daewongun) who actually had power at that time.

-Reason for monument

1. Symbolism: It was the main and largest palace of Joseon dynasty. And also it represent korean confucian culture and art.
2. Unique event: It was burnt to the ground by war and abandoned for long -> Unique event for Gyeongbok palace’s fire when japanese invade Korea and capture Hanseong.
3. Historical reflection: Huge amount of money for reconstructing monument can represent historical situation.
4. Alternate history: Although historical reconstruction was out of eu4 age, giving option for players to reconstruct it earlier and get good modifier as reward will be nice. Because alternate history is fun point of eu4 too.

-Effects of monument

Forbbiden city & Hue palace got harmony increasement buff so giving other confucian bonus to Gyeongbok palace will be unique, like harmonization speed modifier? Also Joseon dynasty was very confucian country so giving loyalty buff to clergy will be nice too.

That’s all for my suggestion.

Thanks.

 

[Espilious]

I have two suggestions for future Monuments, both in modern-day Croatia:
1. Diocletian's Palace in Split
2. The Walls of Dubrovnik

 

[LuPoNe]

On a second thought on my previous long post about the Castles of Gaeta, two major things came into my mind where, in terms of monuments, overshadow it, and are in Naples or in its premises:

1. Reggia di Caserta / Royal Palace of Caserta (wiki links both in Italian and English): even though it was started to be build in 1752 (late game period) it's monumental with a huge and majestic park/garden filled with fountains and was built under the Spanish rule to be the envy of the French kings since it is bigger than Versailles, but it's still relevant since it was built and expanded upon the Acquaviva palace that was there since the 1500s (the previous owners of this palace were paid an already discounted amount shy of 500.000 ducats).
2. Palazzo Reale (Napoli) / Royal Palace of Naples (wiki links both in Italian and English): it was started to be built around 1600 and it's an epitome of the Kingdom Grandeur and an ode to the Bourbon dinasty, having statues of all the Kings of Naples, from the Normans, to the HRE Emperors, the Anjou, Aragonese, Spanish and ending with Vittorio Emanuele II, King of Italy. Clearly a symbol of prestige, legitimacy and royal ruling.
3. Castel dell'Ovo / Castel dell'Ovo (En) (wiki links both in Italian and English): this one has and interesting and enticing story since it spans from before the Roman Empire era. In origin there seems to have been a greek harbor (findings underwater) and subsequentially it hosted a Roman Villa, luxurious, built on these tuffaceous formations that once were an island and now is a peninsula, which saw later fortifications through the centuries, starting first near the fall of the Roman Empire in the 4-5th century, then later in the middle ages and defended the rulers of both Naples and the Republic of Amalfi during the centuries from all kind of invaders, local or foreign (Saracens) and was last conquered by Alfons V of Spain when it restored the union where the fort was severely bombarded and severely damaged and later restored and improved with better fortifications mostly aimed to modern armaments (cannons, bombards) and it gained the shape that we have today. As a major note, the Castle itself hosts also a Royal Palace.
4. Maschio Angioino - Castel Nuovo / Angevin Keep - New Castle (wiki links both in Italian and English): The castle core was built by Charles I of Anjou in 1266 after a major victory against the Hohenstaufens (Svevi) of Swabia and became the King of the Two Sicilies transfering the capital from Palermo to Napoli. It was not only a Castle, but a major focal point of prestige and culture, hosting important people from the academic and literacy world (Giotto, Boccaccio, Petrarca) and after the Aragonese ascent to the throne of Naples in 1443, Alfons of Aragon wanted it to be a majestic seat of power for the kingdom both in its defensiveness and in the prestige of its royal court, to compete in magnificence with the one of Lorenzo il Magnifico of Florence. It reached the peak of its splendor in 1470 and maintained it throughout the centuries and the change of rulers. It also suffered some "improvements" that were, unfortunately, deterimental (like for the windows).

Thank you for reading