Potential future full conversion mods for Vic 3?

[Nibbes]

I know that I have a rather particular taste, but my dream mod would extend the game's timeline to 15 February, 1763, immediately after the end of the Seven Years' War, that way the player can experience and shape not only the victorian era, but the entire age of revolutions, in keeping with the game's themes of social upheaval and technological progress.

Plus, since it starts after the conclusion of the war, the player would be able to slowly immerse themselves into the world of the late 18th century, without having to worry about waging a full-scale war from the very beginning of the game; there would be time to build to that, and potentially change the course of the revolutions, or create an alternate Napoleonic Wars, or even prevent the Napoleonic Wars from happening through shrewd gameplay. The possibilities are endless.

It's not quite a conversion mod, but it'd definitely be a hell of a lot different from vanilla.

If the game does well I could see a dlc that pushes the date back to start of the French Revolution or right after it if not both along with start date related rise Napoleon. Maybe a start date with the American Revolution too. Anything deeper might be too far for the game but French and American revolution are roughly considered start of "modern" era especially in western history.

 

[shadowofneptune]

Like you said, the nuclear weapons impact on diplomacy would be very hard to model- in large part because I don't know how to make something to force the player to account for things like morality when it comes to hesitating to even use the threat of nuclear weapons. We all know that we paradox players don't usually shy away from making decisions that real world leaders would balk at because we won't lose sleep at night if we nuke half the globe or get two thirds of our pops annihilated in nuclear hellfire. Nuclear disarmament would have to be an interest group that would be greatly buffed in-game, with at least half-hearted support from most pops, and the usage of a nuclear weapon, even in WWII when it ends the war with Japan, would have to draw major criticism from a large segment of the population, much more than it did in reality, where most people were absolutely fine with its usage and with nuclear stockpiling in the cold war

It'll really depend on how diplomatic plays work. If certain options are tied to the level of diplomatic tension, then it becomes somewhat easier to control: you'd only be able to threaten it when all other diplomatic measures have failed. You also (hopefully) would not be guaranteed to be the first one to try and use that diplomatic option. Losing most of your pops and buildings could be disincentive enough for a player, unless they want to jump tags to a non-aligned power and see what they can make of that situation.

 

[pheonicia]

It'll really depend on how diplomatic plays work. If certain options are tied to the level of diplomatic tension, then it becomes somewhat easier to control: you'd only be able to threaten it when all other diplomatic measures have failed. You also (hopefully) would not be guaranteed to be the first one to try and use that diplomatic option. Losing most of your pops and buildings could be disincentive enough for a player, unless they want to jump tags to a non-aligned power and see what they can make of that situation.

??? That's not my comment

 

[shadowofneptune]

??? That's not my comment

Editing mistake on my part, I meant to reply to @Olaf Trygvasson.

 

[A Landy]

A 1983: Doomsday mod would be interesting for recovering and rebuilding after nuclear war

 

[dunka2]

If the game supports transshipment then a 1492 start would be interesting. Lock colonisation and ocean-going transport vessels behind a tech that must be discovered. At start the Italian city-states are rich from their comparative tech advantage and the Silk Road, but the artillery arms race and centralising northern European states supplant them over time. Powerful religious IGs drive everyone headlong into the 30 Years War. You could have it run straight from 1492 to 1936 by just adding a few maybe one or two new ownership types and production methods. The big change would just be extra tech really. A way for buildings to expand without necessarily requiring player intervention would be useful too.

 

[toegut]

Oh I absolutely agree that Vic is by far the most capable of handling this- EU4 and CK3 give very few downsides to declaring war, other than being expensive and possibly losing, and HOI4 actively forces you into war (not that this is in any way bad in a game completely centered around WW2). I was just saying that the anti-war movement will have to be much stronger in a cold war-era, and the "pro war" group will still have to be largely against the use of nuclear weapons- during the wars in Korea and Vietnam, even the people who supported US involvement were very much against the idea of using nuclear weapons (most of them, anyway) and civilian deaths such as the My Lai Massacre or those considered collateral damage in bombing campaigns helped switch more and more people to be against the war- I don't know exactly how this would be modeled, but I am sure it is possible for a particularly creative modder

during the Vietnam war wasn't there an idea by the LBJ admin to drop a nuke in the Hanoi bay as a demonstration? this was supposed to be a kind of nuclear blackmail of North Vietnam. But yes, I agree, it's hard to balance nukes and the moral aversion to using them in game. Plus given it's a sandbox and presumably any country can build a nuke, what's to stop South Africa intervening in the Angolan civil war and nuking Luanda?

 

[Nerdman3000]

I imagine, alongside the likely Cold War mod, earlier start date mod, and a American Civil War and WW1 bookmark (if there are no bookmarks in Victoria 3 like what happened with Imperator Rome, which hopefully there will be bookmarks this time cause lord knows as much as I love the game I think Paradox made a mistake by having no ability to mod multiple bookmarks in IR), there will also be a few alternate history mods, similar to Kaiserriech and various other such mods for HOI4, such as a What If Napoleon Won the Napoleonic Wars scenario mod, What If the French Revolution Failed scenario mod, a What If Britain Lost the Seven Years War scenario mod, or a What If the Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire Survived scenario mod, etc.

 

[Fluxuous]

Not exactly a full conversion but I'm hoping for a mod based on the Universe of the Leviathan trilogy (deiselpunk Central Powers vs. biopunk Entente)

 

[The_Real_China_WU-Empire]

It must be TNO.

 

[Lorehead]

1948, in a universe where Werner von Heisenberg was right and the atom bomb doesn’t work.

 

[Tamwin5]

I agree, in any case Vik3's system is such that it will benefit from having original resources and production chains thrown into the mix. It's too bad most lore-rich fantasy settings are generally more focused on characters and cultural diversity but not so much on fleshing out the "magic economy" on a society level. It would probably work best to use a setting where magic and technology coexist. Avatar is indeed a good inspiration, as is the game Arcanum, the anime Full Metal Alchemist and the Ile-Rien book series. But overall probably an original setting would help bring out the most potential of Vic3 economics and politics without being restricted to lore which was never meant to support economic/political complexity.

Some interesting production chains could be:
- Researching nature magic, leading to enabling magical herbs agriculture, leading to product that satisfy the population need for love potions and such
- Researching necromancy, leading to buildings that gradually create docile slave pops as workforce or cheap soldiers
- Researching fire/earth magic leading to ability to mine magical ores, smelt them and construct machinery

Research paths could be balanced in a way to encourage specialization over balanced technological advancement, even going as far as to lock nations into their fantasy stereotype. Also different races/cultures could have major bonuses in some production chains. This would lead to extremely specialized economies that produce some goods but need to import others to maintain their pop's high weath, which in turn allows them to meet high-end job qualification requirements.
Good empires would develop common markets with their allies and be able to support high-wealth pops and advanced armies. That would be counterbalanced by the fact that they're very dependent on their allies for their economy to work and also struggle to blob in ways that their allies find morally acceptable.
Evil empires would want to control their entire production chain by rejecting fair trade and conquering territories and vassalized states instead. Those conquered/vassalized territories would retain some of their previous magical-technological specialization at severely reduced efficiency. Thus evil empires will be able to blob fast and develop large low-skilled economies but will be limited in their ability to promote any large volume of high-wealth high-skill pop thus would have to rely on large low-tech armies.

I think you could have very in depth resource chains needed for magic, at least at a societal level. Various magic ores and rare crystals need to be mined, then smelted/refined with special woods, chemicals, etc. Large scale magical infrastructure requires a both a massive investment of hard to source resources and skilled enchanters/engravers. Magical ability would probably be something tracked similarly to literacy, and be a requirement for many professions.

At the start of the game most resources would be "wild", with adventures going out to harvest the mystical plants and slay various beasts. Magic is taught primarily through apprenticeship. There is a strong political game of trying to tempt the powerful adventurers/wizards to your city/empire. Adventurers would be similar to peasants as a sort of common, "default" job. They'd probably be decently profitable, however with a very high mortality rate, sucking pops from your other professions.

Then, as time goes on, civilization grows. The magical beasts are domesticated. The rare, wild herbs and trees are farmed. Academies of magic are opened. Battles are won not by lone heroes, but by brigades of coordinated mages and foot soldiers armed with mass produced mithril. The steady increase of productivity means things like teleportation networks are now common, simplifying supply chains massively and facilitating global trade.

I think it would also be interesting where you can't afford to destroy the Dark Forest or kill the Dungeon of Evil because they are important pillars of your economy and keeping your empire stable, even if they promise to be world ending threats in the future. Similarly, different wants, needs, and bonuses from the various fantasy races, and the resulting societal tensions if you try to have multiple living together. Laws regarding different schools of magic: Do you ban necromancy to appease your "Church of Light" interest group, or do you want to exploit it for a cheap workforce? Do you allow independent paladin orders free reign, or try to curtail them?

Overall, I see a lot of potential here, but I do think it'd have to be a brand new world rather than an existing IP. The world would need to be designed economy first, since so much of Vicy 3 revolves around that.

 

[luxfelix]

I think you could have very in depth resource chains needed for magic, at least at a societal level. Various magic ores and rare crystals need to be mined, then smelted/refined with special woods, chemicals, etc. Large scale magical infrastructure requires a both a massive investment of hard to source resources and skilled enchanters/engravers. Magical ability would probably be something tracked similarly to literacy, and be a requirement for many professions.

At the start of the game most resources would be "wild", with adventures going out to harvest the mystical plants and slay various beasts. Magic is taught primarily through apprenticeship. There is a strong political game of trying to tempt the powerful adventurers/wizards to your city/empire. Adventurers would be similar to peasants as a sort of common, "default" job. They'd probably be decently profitable, however with a very high mortality rate, sucking pops from your other professions.

Then, as time goes on, civilization grows. The magical beasts are domesticated. The rare, wild herbs and trees are farmed. Academies of magic are opened. Battles are won not by lone heroes, but by brigades of coordinated mages and foot soldiers armed with mass produced mithril. The steady increase of productivity means things like teleportation networks are now common, simplifying supply chains massively and facilitating global trade.

I think it would also be interesting where you can't afford to destroy the Dark Forest or kill the Dungeon of Evil because they are important pillars of your economy and keeping your empire stable, even if they promise to be world ending threats in the future. Similarly, different wants, needs, and bonuses from the various fantasy races, and the resulting societal tensions if you try to have multiple living together. Laws regarding different schools of magic: Do you ban necromancy to appease your "Church of Light" interest group, or do you want to exploit it for a cheap workforce? Do you allow independent paladin orders free reign, or try to curtail them?

Overall, I see a lot of potential here, but I do think it'd have to be a brand new world rather than an existing IP. The world would need to be designed economy first, since so much of Vicy 3 revolves around that.

"The spice must flow."

 

[Tamwin5]

"The spice must flow."

Think you responded to the wrong post.

 

[luxfelix]

Think you responded to the wrong post.

Pardon, the part about a world designed economy first reminded me of how important a key resource could be and affect the politics and social structure.

Shadow & Bone has a dynamic where slaying magical beasts increases the power of the magic user.

In game mechanic terms, maybe a culture of one type of mage would have a cultural obsession with a resource for the magical benefits it provides?

Alternatively, maybe there could be a bender vs non-bender dynamic, like in Avatar, where a resource may be more valuable raw to one side and more valuable refined to the other (&/or obtained as means to deny usage by another)?

 

[Tamwin5]

Pardon, the part about a world designed economy first reminded me of how important a key resource could be and affect the politics and social structure.

Shadow & Bone has a dynamic where slaying magical beasts increases the power of the magic user.

In game mechanic terms, maybe a culture of one type of mage would have a cultural obsession with a resource for the magical benefits it provides?

Alternatively, maybe there could be a bender vs non-bender dynamic, like in Avatar, where a resource may be more valuable raw to one side and more valuable refined to the other (&/or obtained as means to deny usage by another)?

The thing about dune is it has one resource, really. Just the spice. For a Victoria conversion to really work, it needs to have loads of important resources. Thus, if magic is going to be a major part of your conversion, magic needs to have loads of important resources.

Rather than cultural, I think it would be different production methods based on different schools of magic. Potentially also locked by tech, or different cultures find it easier to swap into the profession of certain mage types.

 

[Lorehead]

The thing about dune is it has one resource, really. Just the spice. For a Victoria conversion to really work, it needs to have loads of important resources. Thus, if magic is going to be a major part of your conversion, magic needs to have loads of important resources.

Something like Master of Magic, maybe? The mechanics for building monster units would have to be different, but then, it’s not supposed to be a wargame. There have been a few attempts at a spiritual sequel.

 

[gja102]

How about a sci fi mod that plays a little like a 4x – you start on 22nd century Earth as a spacefaring power, with a focus on establishing colonies on other planets. Initial setting would be on the solar system but there’d be an early game tech that let you reach several earthlike planets dotted around the map.

To get the total conversion to work, you’d need to remove navies from the game and replace them with starships. Sea zones would now represent regions of space. Planets would have multiple provinces, linked by straits where necessary, so ground warfare would still be modelled.

If the map can handle the move from navies to space navies, then the rest of the Victoria mechanics should lend themselves quite well to the setting – you’d be establishing colonies and building up increasingly complex supply chains featuring offworld industries and resources like a good space imperialist, but you’d still need to keep an eye on the balance of power on Earth, lest another World War kick off.

Later in the game, the growing colonies might develop their own cultural traits and desire for independence and players would need to decide whether they wanted to try and remain old Earth imperialists or try and forge new power bases amongst the stars on colonial or ideological grounds. There wouldn’t be a strict ‘lore’ as you’d be creating your own – one future could be a standard US – China cold war extended to the stars, the next might develop into an Elite-esque Terran Federation / Colonial Empire conflict, or you could have a Battletech-style descent into Neofeudal chaos.

 

[dunka2]

I think you could have very in depth resource chains needed for magic, at least at a societal level. Various magic ores and rare crystals need to be mined, then smelted/refined with special woods, chemicals, etc. Large scale magical infrastructure requires a both a massive investment of hard to source resources and skilled enchanters/engravers. Magical ability would probably be something tracked similarly to literacy, and be a requirement for many professions.

At the start of the game most resources would be "wild", with adventures going out to harvest the mystical plants and slay various beasts. Magic is taught primarily through apprenticeship. There is a strong political game of trying to tempt the powerful adventurers/wizards to your city/empire. Adventurers would be similar to peasants as a sort of common, "default" job. They'd probably be decently profitable, however with a very high mortality rate, sucking pops from your other professions.

Then, as time goes on, civilization grows. The magical beasts are domesticated. The rare, wild herbs and trees are farmed. Academies of magic are opened. Battles are won not by lone heroes, but by brigades of coordinated mages and foot soldiers armed with mass produced mithril. The steady increase of productivity means things like teleportation networks are now common, simplifying supply chains massively and facilitating global trade.

I think it would also be interesting where you can't afford to destroy the Dark Forest or kill the Dungeon of Evil because they are important pillars of your economy and keeping your empire stable, even if they promise to be world ending threats in the future. Similarly, different wants, needs, and bonuses from the various fantasy races, and the resulting societal tensions if you try to have multiple living together. Laws regarding different schools of magic: Do you ban necromancy to appease your "Church of Light" interest group, or do you want to exploit it for a cheap workforce? Do you allow independent paladin orders free reign, or try to curtail them?

Overall, I see a lot of potential here, but I do think it'd have to be a brand new world rather than an existing IP. The world would need to be designed economy first, since so much of Vicy 3 revolves around that.

I think you could perhaps take this a step further. You could restrict magic use to certain heritages and use the discrimination system to model how only a very few can actually do magic, essentially replacing aristocrats with magicians. All buildings can function normally without magicians, but a building with the magic production method will produce more (outcompeting regular production methods) and some buildings (such as the ones to grow magical herbs and beasts or transmute magical items) need magicians to function. As time goes on though, wands and weir stones will be invented (or the knowledge rediscovered?) which enable production methods that don't require magicians but initially are quite dangerous and expensive.

Hell you could even still make education important by having a difference between magician and conjurer. Magical buildings can function with conjurers but at reduced safety and production while you'll need fewer magicians who produce more with fewer accidents. To get magicians though you'll need robust education system.

For war, you could potentially (as we don't know how the system will work) have war wizard units that require less manpower, but losses in combat are more deadly. Do you risk your precious magical population in battle or throw hordes of mundane troops at your problems? This might be a little difficult to program the AI to understand though as it tends to just throw everything it has into battle no matter how precious.

 

[Krajzen]

Alternate history in which South Asia is full of indeoendent countries and it is those who are beginning industrial revolution while Eurooe is 'uncivilized' and on danger of being colonized by them