[Megathread] Monumental Thread

[Sidolowka]

That's not even an excuse for a reason. The Monuments have plenty more effects than Karma decay and there are way more than 3 Buddhist monuments. Shinto has no numerical value to change but having +0.5% prestige from a monument would still be usable.

Japan has more monuments than entire CONTINENTS, and its development totals up to more than a third of China. It does not need more buffs, nor did it get the 'short end of the stick'.

Regions like South America and Central Asia have it even worse, yet you don't see anyone whinging about religious requirements that you get free events to circumvent now do you?

Confucianism (3 monuments) and Tengri (1 monument), both religions that cover a far wider area than Shinto and have better credibility for using Buddhist monunents, got shafted worse by your logic.

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

Korsjan Rīkis​

In Congo only for Christian

Cathedral of the Holy Saviour of Congo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In Balkan I was thinking about

Fortifications of Kotor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

​

Good suggestions. A cathedral could be good, but the problem is that it's only limited to Christians and Fetishists don't get anything. But yeah, it can work as another potential monument for Kongo, At least it would encourage players to convert to Christianity as Kongo.

About the Fortifications of Kotor. Hmm, depends on if you want to strengthen Ragusa or Venetian positions in the Balkans. Seeing that the Ottomans weren't able to capture this city, it's a good candidate.

 

[Salambo]

That's great, we got a lot of new monuments for the next patch!

But in europe it's still pretty empty... i mean, no one more in France region? No one in belgium?, Very few in germany and for russia (Russia is a continent...)

I know that devs don't put too many monuments in europe because it's easy to blob and stack buffs.

But maybe (suggestion) we can make monuments that work ONLY for main culture. Ex 'Francien'' for France. And if England got some land in France it could not take the bonus from the Francien monument even if he accept the culture.

It will add more fun and options for players who like playing tall and not only in painting the map.

 

[EarlKonrad]

They already have THREE monuments.

Japan has more monuments than entire CONTINENTS, and its development totals up to more than a third of China. It does not need more buffs, nor did it get the 'short end of the stick'.

Japan does have 3 monuments (which is A LOT, I agree) and two of them are completely worthless investments which in my eyes makes it even worse.

Funnily enough they get one of the best monuments available (Sankin-Kotai Palaces).

 

[nyetflix]

To the best of my knowledge, Cahokia was abandoned for almost a hundred years by the time EU IV starts. With that said, I'd love to see an event chain involving rebuilding Cahokia for any Mississippian tag.

@Vin55
That is true. Personally if it were up to me I would choose a monument that was used in the period like Etowah. EU4 devs do that all across the world, they chose Petra, Tikal, Chichen Itza, Tiwanaku, the Egyptian pyramids etc. But out of all of these Cahokia is the only one portrayed as a ruin. If it's being used as a monument that kind of implies actually dressing it up a bit.

 

[KaiserArg]

Who is his mind would want to form Colombia or Cuba now when you can have those OP bonuses for yourself? the colonial nation is not worth it. The new meta is going to be for Portugal to form those colonial nations so that Spain keeps those 2 provinces for the stupidly powerful bonuses. And may God have mercy on your soul if UK takes Havana and Cartagena, the wooden wall + those 2 monuments = naval supremacy for the rest of the game

Am I supposed to believe that paradox test team is so incompetent that they didn't think of that possibility?

Edit: a dev answered saying that the 10 hostile fleet attrition as a global modifier is a bug, is supposed to be a local modifier for Colombia

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

I was thinking about it and there's no monument for Ibadis, as well. I assume that the best place for that would be Oman. Any ideas what it could be?

 

[PurpulaPhoenixum53]

Has anyone suggested Mount Athos as a monument for Saloniki (148) that could give tolerance of the true faith, negative tolerance of heretics (the monastary apparently has a history of opposing cooperation with other Christian sects), and slight boost to fellow religious opinion boost

Tier 1: +1 Tolerance of the true faith, -1 tolerance of heretics
Tier 2: +2 Tolerance of the True Faith, -2 tolerance of heretics, +10 to "Same religion" modifier
Tier 3: +3 Tolerance of the True Faith, -2 Tolerance of the Heretics, +20 to "Same religion opinion

Clergy would gain 5 Loyalty, but no influence, when upgraded

Image is from 1897, is closest image I could find of the monastary itself to the EU4 time period.

 

[Tricassian]

I really thought the Byzantium lovers were going to be thrown a bone with the Theodosian Walls. I could just taste the extra fort level and blockade resistance. Oh well.

Sultanahmet is cool too; I guess there was no proper Turkish monument before. If I could suggest a monument for Turks outside of Constantinople, perhaps the most interesting/unique would be the Semahane of the Mevlevi order in Konya, which could also be referred to as the Mausoleum of Rumi. It's visually unique with its tower of turquoise glazed pottery, and is culturally significant enough to appear on Turkish banknotes. Even though it was built in the 13th century, it was upgraded by Suleiman the Magnificent during the EUIV timeframe! Honoring the great Sufi mystic poet, it could be used by any Muslim country, granting a boost to mysticism when upgraded and maybe a boost to legitimacy or tolerance.

Another regional monument could be Bakhchisaray Palace in Crimea, seat of the Crimean khans. At the west end of the Eurasian steppes, this monument could be the reward of any steppe nomad that reached that far, granting tribal unity

 

[51states]

Devs the Morro Castle is in the wrong location; the one pictured in the icon belongs in San Juan not in Havana, consider moving it please!

Edit:

Added the pictures for comparison; the fort pictured is Castle San Felipe del Morro, in San Juan Puerto Rico. This Castle along with Fort San Cristobal were the biggest Spanish fortifications in the New World and should be represented correctly.

 

[Avizerf]

Just posting it here in case the devs didn't see my post in the DD thread.

Spoiler

I believe some people have pointed it out, but the Walls of Benin depicted is actually the Round City of Baghdad. It is the first thing shown when you type "Round city" on google. The art team really needs to check the sources when researching stuff lol.

Also, the domed building depicted as Baiturrahman Grand Mosque in this DD is a building built in 1879 by the Dutch. It is outside of EU4 time frame. The original Grand Mosque, which was destroyed during the Dutch siege of Kutaraja in 1873, was a building with a multi-tiered pyramidal roof, just like other Indonesian mosques before the 19th century. The original structure can be seen in these engravings:

 

[Pavía]

Hi @Pavía,

Here are some of my suggestions about the monument system:

1. I think that Confucian countries can use all religion-constrained monuments after harmonizing such religion/religion group is OP. However, I think the religion-constrained monuments in the eastern religious group should be accessed for Confucian countries after this religion is harmonized. Specifically, the monuments for all three Buddhist religions and Shinto. Since missionaries and missionary strength are totally useless for Confucian countries, only 4 or 5 extra monuments are worth upgrading. It is not OP now. I mean, take a look at the latest released monuments. the style of monuments in Qaraqorum is a mixture of Chinese and Tibetan, but the Confucian country cannot use it!

2. The Chinese culture is highly influenced by Buddhists, and the Confucian is indeed a mixture of Confucianism-Buddhist-Taoism (see Three teachings). Therefore, there are so many monuments in China that are related to Buddhist (Chinese Buddhist/Mahayana). Here is a list of some famous ones:

Mogao Caves, Yungang Grottoes, White Horse Temple (there is a province trigger modifier in Luoyang in eu4!), Leshan Giant Buddha, Mount Wutai, Longmen Grottoes, Hanging Temple, Shaolin Monastery...

Of course, I don't expect that all of them could be added in eu4. I include this list to emphasize that the connection between China and Buddhist is really really strong. In fact, in each dynasty of China, the spread of Buddhist cannot be stopped, and most of the dynasties have a positive attitude to the Buddhists. Therefore, I hope some Buddhist monuments can be found in China subcontinent and the country that has harmonized Buddhists can make use of those monuments.


Best wishes,

​

​

The Japanese are really getting the short end of the stick when it comes to Monuments.

The religion of Shogunate Japan was Buddhism.

The in-game Shinto religion was supposed to represent the Buddhism combined with strong local Japanese traditions later known as Shinto.

"
Shintoism is the ancient ethnic religion of Japan which over the centuries have come to coexist with Confucianism and Buddhism on the Japanese islands.
In the game all of Japan starts out Shintoist to signify the special mix of Buddhism, Shintoism and other traditions of the Japanese people.
"
In-game description^


But the new devs completely forgot this, making most Buddhist Monuments unusable by Shinto nations.

They already have THREE monuments.


Because Buddhist mechanics kind of don't work for Shinto. Shinto nations get a free event to flip to Mahayana (or Catholic/Confucianism) anyways, so it's not like the Japanese are hard-locked out of those monuments either.

That's not even an excuse for a reason. The Monuments have plenty more effects than Karma decay and there are way more than 3 Buddhist monuments. Shinto has no numerical value to change but having +0.5% prestige from a monument would still be usable.

Japan has more monuments than entire CONTINENTS, and its development totals up to more than a third of China. It does not need more buffs, nor did it get the 'short end of the stick'.

Regions like South America and Central Asia have it even worse, yet you don't see anyone whinging about religious requirements that you get free events to circumvent now do you?

Confucianism (3 monuments) and Tengri (1 monument), both religions that cover a far wider area than Shinto and have better credibility for using Buddhist monunents, got shafted worse by your logic.

In the next weeks we are going to take a more detailed look on the monuments available for Eastern and Dharmic religions, and some Pagan confessions, as we're not really happy about how the requirements are working for those religions.

It's a difficult issue, but we think it's worth overhauling this a bit, as you've already pointed very good reasons for it.

Gyeongbok Palace

Hanseong (735)

2

Culture is Korean At least one of: Has the same culture as its owner Has an accepted culture of its owner

Global modifiers: +0.25 Yearly legitimacy equivalent −0.01 Monthly autonomy change

Global modifiers: +0.5 Yearly legitimacy equivalent -5% Technology Cost −0.025 Monthly autonomy change

Global modifiers: +1 Yearly legitimacy equivalent -10% Technology Cost −0.05 Monthly autonomy change

Very Big Error in Gyeongbok Palace Art. That tall building which is placed behind right of main building is modern museum building that is built in 1972. That building is used as National Folk Museum of Korea now, but because of huge historical error it will be tore down until 2030. That tall building has to be removed from art, because it was not existed at all in EU4 period.

(Image of National Folk Museum of Korea building.)

Devs the Morro Castle is in the wrong location; the one pictured in the icon belongs in San Juan not in Havana, consider moving it please!

Edit:

Added the pictures for comparison; the fort pictured is Castle San Felipe del Morro, in San Juan Puerto Rico. This Castle along with Fort San Cristobal were the biggest Spanish fortifications in the New World and should be represented correctly.

Just posting it here in case the devs didn't see my post in the DD thread.

There are some mistakes about the Monuments art, you're right. We're fixing the pagoda next to Gyeongbok Palace really quick, as it's a minor fix (from artists PoV). About the others, Fuerte del Morro image has been mistaken, and Walls of Benin could be improved, TBH. As these would be entire redrawing of the pictures, it may take longer to fix it, so I can't promise when we'll be implementing it.

I have a few suggestions: there's various monuments representing homes of the head of state (the Doge's Palace, the White House, etc.). While historically, several monarchs did maintain palaces away from their capitals, I'd suggest that at least some such monuments include a requirement that the province be your capital.

I'd also suggest that, for the White House, you allow for other colonical cultures (Mexican and Brazilian - maybe include a French or Germanic version, too!). Or, perhaps instead of restricting it culturally, you restrict it to post-colonial tags.

The White House requirement in the DD was a typo, actually (my fault, I relied in a non-updated design document when posting). These are the requirements needed to build, use or upgrade this monument as it's been released:

owner = {
OR = {
is_former_colonial_nation = yes
tag = USA
}
}

Gyeongbok Palace is the only monument that Korea gets right now — I do believe it deserves something a bit more unique than a rather boring legitimacy/tech cost modifier.

Level	I	II	III
Local Modifiers	-5% Development Cost	-10% Development Cost	-15% Development Cost
Global Modifiers	-0.025 Monthly Autonomy Decrease -5% Advisor Cost	-0.05 Monthly Autonomy Decrease +1 Monarch Admin Skill -10% Advisor Cost	-0.1 Monthly Autonomy Decrease +2 Monarch Admin Skill -20% Advisor Cost

The -10% tech cost modifier should instead be for the Hangul Alphabet national idea for Korea — makes no sense how the Manchu alphabet idea (used to) give -10% while the Hangul alphabet only gives -5%.

Will take into account your suggestions for the monument.

Who is his mind would want to form Colombia or Cuba now when you can have those OP bonuses for yourself? the colonial nation is not worth it. The new meta is going to be for Portugal to form those colonial nations so that Spain keeps those 2 provinces for the stupidly powerful bonuses. And may God have mercy on your soul if UK takes Havana and Cartagena, the wooden wall + those 2 monuments = naval supremacy for the rest of the game

Am I supposed to believe that paradox test team is so incompetent that they didn't think of that possibility?

Edit: a dev answered saying that the 10 hostile fleet attrition as a global modifier is a bug, is supposed to be a local modifier for Colombia

Both Cartagena de Indias and Fuerte del Morro have been fixed. We've also added a couple new modifiers for Cartagena, as we felt it's state was a bit weak (trade power from ships, and prestige from naval battles). We'll be also tweaking a bit Fuerte del Morro, as we've created a new modifier, so give a X% of naval force limit to the overlord; however, that change will have to go into the second hotfix, as it takes a bit more of time to test that a new modifier added works fine.

 

[adin85]

Can you do something Castle in Marienburg. Extra Legitymacy and 10% Mercenary cost are not worth too invest it.

 

[51states]

In the next weeks we are going to take a more detailed look on the monuments available for Eastern and Dharmic religions, and some Pagan confessions, as we're not really happy about how the requirements are working for those religions.

It's a difficult issue, but we think it's worth overhauling this a bit, as you've already pointed very good reasons for it.





There are some mistakes about the Monuments art, you're right. We're fixing the pagoda next to Gyeongbok Palace really quick, as it's a minor fix (from artists PoV). About the others, Fuerte del Morro image has been mistaken, and Walls of Benin could be improved, TBH. As these would be entire redrawing of the pictures, it may take longer to fix it, so I can't promise when we'll be implementing it.

The White House requirement in the DD was a typo, actually (my fault, I relied in a non-updated design document when posting). These are the requirements needed to build, use or upgrade this monument as it's been released:




Will take into account your suggestions for the monument.

Both Cartagena de Indias and Fuerte del Morro have been fixed. We've also added a couple new modifiers for Cartagena, as we felt it's state was a bit weak (trade power from ships, and prestige from naval battles). We'll be also tweaking a bit Fuerte del Morro, as we've created a new modifier, so give a X% of naval force limit to the overlord; however, that change will have to go into the second hotfix, as it takes a bit more of time to test that a new modifier added works fine.

The problem with El Morro is not the image, it's the location in Havana. The focal point of the Spanish defenses for the Caribbean wasn't that smaller fort in Havana it was the entire walled city of San Juan with the better harbor and more easily defensible location. In the age of sail San Juan was the closest island with fresh water and supplies to Europe. The entire fort complex (El Morro and San Cristobal) took 250 years to complete from 1539 to 1783.

The Dutch and the English attacked the island on several occasions throughout the timeline of the game including a famous battle in 1797 in which the British army that conquered Trinidad tried and failed to conquer Puerto Rico

El Morro and San Cristobal were the biggest forts built by the Spanish in the New world.

 

[Pavía]

Can you do something Castle in Marienburg. Extra Legitymacy and 10% Mercenary cost are not worth too invest it.

We may think about buffing the monument if the community thinks it's a bit weak, yes.

The problem with El Morro is not the image, it's the location in Havana. The focal point of the Spanish defenses for the Caribbean wasn't that smaller fort in Havana it was the entire walled city of San Juan with the better harbor and more easily defensible location. In the age of sail San Juan was the closest island with fresh water and supplies to Europe. The entire fort complex (El Morro and San Cristobal) took 250 years to complete from 1539 to 1783.

The Dutch and the English attacked the island on several occasions throughout the timeline of the game including a famous battle in 1797 in which the British army that conquered Trinidad tried and failed to conquer Puerto Rico

El Morro and San Cristobal were the biggest forts built by the Spanish in the New world.

Really good feedback, thanks to you. We'll think a bit about if we move the monument from La Havana to Puerto Rico, or if we redo the art of the monument; you've given us some food for thought.

 

[adin85]

I found few interesting potential Monuments in Africa. We have Origins and everything is about them.

Osun-Osogbo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

​

Ambohimanga - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Fort Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Fort Coenraadsburg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Harar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Royal Palaces of Abomey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Qsur

M'zab - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and extra in Oceania

Chief Roi Mata’s Domain – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

 

[51states]

We may think about buffing the monument if the community thinks it's a bit weak, yes.

Really good feedback, thanks to you. We'll think a bit about if we move the monument from La Havana to Puerto Rico, or if we redo the art of the monument; you've given us some food for thought.

That's awesome! I've been playing the new content and the monuments in general are fun, they add great flavor to the game.

 

[adin85]

In the future I heard there will be Middle East patch. In Assia there is plenty Monuments., but I think there is one region which could be added.

Arabian Penisula

This would work similar too Polder in Netherland

Aflaj Irrigation Systems of Oman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

City Sanaa and Suk al-Milh(Similar to Sukiennnce in Cracow)

Sanaa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bahrain Pearling Trail - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Caucasia

Svetitskhoveli Cathedral - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

India

Sigiriya - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[0ranos]

Just to be clear, when you say ‘Walls of Benin’ could be improved, I want to clarify that it’s understood that the art is picturing something from the other side of the globe, and a thousand years before Benin’s height.

This is the image the artist copied: it’s an image of the Round City of Baghdad. It comes up as the first result if you search Walls of Benin in google images, because some charlatans want to make the Walls seem more visually impressive than they were.

What’s impressive about the Walls of Benin isn’t that they were pretty, it’s that they were the largest collection of earthwork fortifications in history.

Good alternate images to look at for the next version of this monument:

Loving the new content in Origins overall! This particular monument was just a big swing and a miss - but still super glad it was chosen!

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

In the future I heard there will be Middle East patch. In Assia there is plenty Monuments., but I think there is one region which could be added.

Arabian Penisula

This would work similar too Polder in Netherland

Aflaj Irrigation Systems of Oman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

City Sanaa and Suk al-Milh(Similar to Sukiennnce in Cracow)

Sanaa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bahrain Pearling Trail - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Caucasia

Svetitskhoveli Cathedral - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

India

Sigiriya - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you have any ideas, if there could be any potential native monuments in South America that aren't in the Andes?