CK3: Tours and Tournaments - The Vision

[Duzgun]

EDIT: Thread is sadly too long for me to read in its entirety right now.

You don't need to read it all, only need to answer these!

 

[PDXOxycoon]

You don't need to read it all, only need to answer these!

Spoiler

Wondering about a few things (I may have missed information) :

• will it be necessary to travel to the same place as the other character in order to sway him/her? (this seems logical and would make swaying less easy)
• will it be necessary to travel to Rome in order to ask the pope for money? (same as above)
• more generally : for which interactions is it necessary to be in the same place as another character in order to interact with that character? (I can imagine some interactions could use sending letters but most interactions should need to be in the same place)
• will position concern every character or only rulers ?
• if every characters, does this mean that steward has to move to the county he is developping for example? And what if you are the steward of your liege? Do you need to move to the county your liege wants you to develop ? Can you refuse ?
• does position mechanism also modify rally points system? (logically a character should first move to a given place before raising an army there)

Anyway this seems a nice mechanism in order to improve immersion. I hope it lives up to the expectations…

To quote myself in another thread on the travel system.

The travel system itself is baseline. I believe there is still some teleporting, but we are doing a pass to eliminate as much as possible of it that we can easily do without needing to do big overhauls of existing systems. I cannot remember what still teleports, but there will likely be some teleporting left due to some limitations and implementation details that we haven't gotten sorted for Tours and Tournaments.

Note I haven't really been involved in the Travel system, so this is just what I remember from the top of my head, so take it with a grain of salt.

Stay tuned for the Dev Diary on the specifics of it.

 

[kawamuratc]

Other games use their mathematical models for modeling the orbits of planets or elaborate economic and inflationary simulations. Us? We use math to figure out how to kill everyone.

No, no, no. Math to figure out how to kill a certain percentage of the population.

@PDXOxycoon you know what would be really cool? Tying disease rates to certain cultural or religious tenants, much like the childbirth/pregnancy complications.

 

[PDXOxycoon]

Other games use their mathematical models for modeling the orbits of planets

I actually did that for one of my assignments in university, using Newton's laws with the properites of all the massive objects in the Solar system (all planets and all relevant moons). It worked rather nicely, but eventually broke down due to lack of precision within the systems. Who could've predicted that hour by hour wasn't really sufficient to simulate it all with the framework I had set up? The moons eventually left their planets' orbits Good times

 

[kawamuratc]

I actually did that for one of my assignments in university, using Newton's laws with the properites of all the massive objects in the Solar system (all planets and all relevant moons). It worked rather nicely, but eventually broke down due to lack of precision within the systems. Who could've predicted that hour by hour wasn't really sufficient to simulate it all with the framework I had set up? The moons eventually left their planets' orbits Good times

Is that a thing you still have access to and is it math we could look at?

 

[Torngasuk]

I actually did that for one of my assignments in university, using Newton's laws with the properites of all the massive objects in the Solar system (all planets and all relevant moons). It worked rather nicely, but eventually broke down due to lack of precision within the systems. Who could've predicted that hour by hour wasn't really sufficient to simulate it all with the framework I had set up? The moons eventually left their planets' orbits Good times

Fascinating! Sounds like the basis of a great Stellaris adventure, too. Stellaris: Rogue Moon.

 

[grommile]

The moons eventually left their planets' orbits

Ah, the joys of using coarsely quantized analysis on a chaotic system

 

[kawamuratc]

Ah, the joys of using coarsely quantized analysis on a chaotic system

You’re telling me an initial condition was this sensitive to a butterfly’s wing?

 

[johnty5]

I sense a sudden rise in very solo pilgrimages. Want to join our pilgrim caravan? No.

[ ] Apply social distancing (-50% sway scheme success, -99% seduction scheme success, -50% disease spread)

 

[PDXOxycoon]

Is that a thing you still have access to and is it math we could look at?

Not anymore. Probably in the uni archives somewhere, but don't have access to that

 

[Torngasuk]

Not anymore. Probably in the uni archives somewhere, but don't have access to that

Ah, yes, inaccessible university texts: the bane of my existence.

 

[kawamuratc]

Not anymore. Probably in the uni archives somewhere, but don't have access to that

There you devs go, not giving the community (1) what we want (2). Typical paradox.
——
(1) me and only me
(2) notes on the math you did for a random uni project unrelated to the game.

 

[Comrade_Boris]

I actually did that for one of my assignments in university, using Newton's laws with the properites of all the massive objects in the Solar system (all planets and all relevant moons). It worked rather nicely, but eventually broke down due to lack of precision within the systems. Who could've predicted that hour by hour wasn't really sufficient to simulate it all with the framework I had set up? The moons eventually left their planets' orbits Good times

I did something similar in my intro uni physics class and had a similar problem. In case it gives you some closure I've since learned the way some solve this without killing compute time with a small timestep is to calculate energy at each step and enforce conservation of energy by adding or subtracting energy to the system. The trick for where excess energy or a lack of energy should be taken from or added to escapes me.

 

[Treekin]

Let's face it: the reason people like these cosmetic DLCs and their window-dressing features is that they want to play the base game, but getting bored so they need some busywork to keep them busy.

Let's take Royal Court as an example: you don't even need to hold court, because you receive no penalty for not doing your job as a court-holder. In fact you have to lose prestige to hold court. And holding court is the only interaction you can have with people in your lifeless, frozen court. No greeting, chat-chit, flirting, bargaining, scheming... with anybody. Instead all you can do is push one button and some random events (often unrealistic and unfunny) pop up, giving you some penalty (often outside your control). That's it. The only reason you enter such a time-wasting, useless mini-game is because you are tired of staring at the map for too long.

If you just want to experience those activities without the base game, there is certainly better simulators out there. Mount & Blade is an example: you actually fight in tournaments, you actually have to travel across your domain to manage it, you actually have to summon vassals to your army instead of having them teleported at the rally point.

EDIT: Note that when Paradox programmer shows up in the forum, suddenly all the negative doom and gloom lads sprint into the dank, dark corners on the internet. They don't want to throw down with a programmer.

The quoted post getting massive upvotes compared to downvotes reflects the negative attitude of the forum in general.

These echo chamber forums have become a place where it is socially acceptable and encouraged to trash the game to which the forum corresponds. This behavior is not unique to CK3: it's obvious that games like Warhammer 3, AoE4, Darktide, Cyberpunk 2077, Divinity 2: Original Sin, Pokemon Scarlet/Violet, Xenoblades 3, World of Warcraft, CoH3, and many more.


My point isn't to say that any of these games are perfect; my point is that the gross negativity and immature approach to problems (real or imagined) by the community is unhelpful, childish, and reflects poorly upon the community in general.

I do not imagine for a second that this post will be poplar, but it ought to be said.
If you think that CK2 is a better game, no one is stopping you from playing it.

As for myself, I believe that CK3's greatest weakness is the late game -- and this is supported by statistics which indicate that most players do not finish campaigns. Adding in activities that bolster the late game and keep players invested in the game after they "paint the map," or destabilized "painted maps," or just give players reasons to continue after they've defeated most of their foes on the outside of their kingdom, is IMO what CK3 most desperately needs.

Activities, destabilization, alternative "win" conditions.

1) Tours and Tournaments checks the "activities" sections; which is why I said it's a step in the right direction.
2) The reason I've suggested expanding the "Struggle System" native to Fates of Iberia to be a mapwide feature instead of a localized feature is because it will go a long way into addressing "destabilization" and even further in addressing "alternative 'win' conditions."

---

Now to highlight the problems I've talked about:

"...the reason people like these cosmetic DLCs and their window-dressing features"

A) Suggesting that a DLC like Royal Court was a "cosmetic" DLC that added "busywork" is laughable at best; but more likely spiteful, intentionally misleading rhetoric. Talking down to the average "player" who gets "bored" and therefore craves "busywork" is completely off-base and out of line. You don't know what you pretend to know; moreover, your attempt to label a complete DLC as "cosmetic window-dressing" is absurd.

B) "You don't need to hold court" as if you're playing the game like an RTS or 4x instead of a roleplaying experience. That, right there, reveals the crux of the issue with you. The approach you have to the game isn't to play your character for the sake of playing your character; it's to "win."

C) Bringing up Mount and Blade (an excellent game, which has a community just like this one: full of negative teens who would have a good laugh at you recommending Mount and Blade) as a good alternative to CK3 shows that you don't understand CK3 nearly as well as you think you do. They aren't similar games at all.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

Face Mask do nothing against the plague, which spreads by flea.

 

[kawamuratc]

Face Mask do nothing against the plague, which spreads by flea.

Au contrair, mon petit forumite (1).

Y. pestis can infect the lungs. This happens either by the bacterium spreading to the lungs from the bloodstream in someone with septicemic plague (secondary infection) or as a primary infection from inhaling aerosols from someone suffering from pneumonic plague already.

And pneumonic plague has even worse outcomes than the bubonic form!



(1) this is clearly perfect French for “my good sir, ma’am or gender non confirming gentle person

 

[apollo1989vieten]

Au contrair, mon petit forumite (1).

Y. pestis can infect the lungs. This happens either by the bacterium spreading to the lungs from the bloodstream in someone with septicemic plague (secondary infection) or as a primary infection from inhaling aerosols from someone suffering from pneumonic plague already.

And pneumonic plague has even worse outcomes than the bubonic form!



(1) this is clearly perfect French for “my good sir, ma’am or gender non confirming gentle person

I stand corrected. Though the plague did first transmit to humans through the rat flea. The best way to avoid the plague was to avoid crowded areas like cities.

A story goes that an infected person was catapulted over the city walls by the Mongols/Tartars. Venice merchants then unknowingly brought the disease back to Europe.

Would late medieval masks be effective at stopping the plague? The only masks that are really effective against COVID are N95. Would the plague be hindered by something much less effective than an N95?

 

[kawamuratc]

Would late medieval masks be effective at stopping the plague? The only masks that are really effective against COVID are N95. Would the plague be hindered by something much less effective than an N95?

All forms of masks and respirators, when worn correctly and of a tight enough weave (talking about cloth), prevent some level of transmission of COVID, it’s just a case of how well.

To avoid spreading misinformation, n95s respirators are orders of magnitude more effective than a surgical mask (modern) cloth mask (modern or medieval) or oiled hide (probably just medieval, but who knows?). But any attempts to protect yourself from material coming from the lungs of someone sick with pneumonic plague would help to some degree.

 

[Flockingbird]

A story goes that an infected person was catapulted over the city walls by the Mongols/Tartars.

I can hear the screaming if an event like this is added in with a disease-related patch/DLC!

But if I were a dev, I’d be tempted...add relevant conditions so it doesn’t show up too often (one hopes!).

 

[kawamuratc]

I can hear the screaming if an event like this is added in with a disease-related patch/DLC!

But if I were a dev, I’d be tempted...add relevant conditions so it doesn’t show up too often (one hopes!).

We have one already. I remember the good ol’ days when it unintendedly fired all the time.

Really should have found or made a mod to have it the event play “Its Raining Men” every time it happened.