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Developer Diary | Norway Alt History!

Hej everyone, it’s me, Carlo! Katten has been staring at me from the other side of the office all morning, which can only mean one thing: it’s time for me to write another Dev Diary! Now, I’ve already talked about Historical Norway, the Joint Focus Tree, and modding stuff so there’s only one more thing I could write about, and that’s our favorite kamerat, LevTrotskij.

Known outside of Norway as Leon Trotsky, he was one of the most prominent members of the bolsheviks in the Soviet Union, renowned marxist theorist, known for his permanent revolution, and even more permanent exile. He was Lenin’s successor apparent, but Stanlin’s political maneuvering forced him out of the government and eventually out of the Soviet Union. After that, he was allowed to move to Norway, with the newspaper editor, Konrad Knudsen. So far so good.

01. Trotsky advisor.png

The important thing for us happens in an August much like this one, in 1936, when Quisling’s thugs ransacked Knudsen’s house, and would’ve gotten away with it if it wasn’t because Knudsen’s daughter drove them off. So much for the tolerant left, smh. This event will be represented in AAT’s Norway, regardless of the path you take, and it’s the start of trotskij’s event chain.

02. Trotsky’s place ransacked event.png

Historically, the pressure from fascists and stalinists was too much for the Nygaardsvold Cabinet, so he was put under house arrest in a farm in Hurum, which, by his own account, was one of the worst periods of his life. After that he was allowed into Mexico, and received by the artist Frida Kahlo and her husband Diego Rivera. And then they lived happily ever after. Though he was, indeed, kicked out when Diego Rivera found out he was having an affair with Frida Kahlo and then was killed with an ice pick by a Soviet Union agent. Other than that he had a good time in Mexico by all accounts.

03. Trotsky arrives to Mexico event.png

Of course, you don’t need to care about what happened historically. You can just imprison him, or send him to Mexico right away and use this altercation as a justification for increasing political repression, send him straight to Stalin, and even put him in government. Those last two are especially useful if you’re going the communist route by the way.

Communist Route?... Oh, right, that’s what I was supposed to write about, Alt History content for Norway! Since I already wrote about Trotskij’s fate, let me tell you about the options you have for
turning Norway even redder.

04. Norway Communist Branch.png

First step, the labor movement needs to regain its momentum, with the ‘A Resurgent Labor Movement’ focus. This will set Norway on to the path of Communism, but which one? You can compromise with the NKP to adopt their Stalinist stance or prosecute them and let the Labor Party embrace Trotskij’s teachings, and if you kept him in Norway you’ll also have him as an advisor and general.

05a. Compromise with the NKP.png

05b. Prosecute the NKP.png

Each path has advantages and disadvantages: you can be beholden to the Soviet Union and their support, or you can go your own path and bring the Permanent Revolution to the rest of the world.

Regardless of your communist goals, you will need to rouse the proletariat in states that are industrialized enough, and when you’re ready you can trigger the communist revolution and fight in a civil war against the old Norway! Now of course, riling up the workers has its cost, because they’ll do some heavy damage to your factories and infrastructure once they rise up for the revolution.

06. Rouse The Proletariat Decisions.png


Let’s take a better look at the ‘Rouse the Proletariat Decisions’. The first level will grant you the state once the civil war starts, but will leave your buildings in a pretty rough shape.

07. Rouse the Proletariat 1.png

You can reduce this damage by bringing it to Level 2 and you will also be granted 2 irregular divisions.

08. Rouse the Proletariat 2.png

Then if you’re really serious about that state you can fully rouse its working class, reducing the damage to the buildings and upgrading those troops to Militias.

09. Rouse the Proletariat 3.png

And before you think “But Carlo, what if I just rouse the whole country and I skip the civil war?”, I’ll tell you now, that won’t work. You will have to choose carefully how to approach these decisions, as you can’t go over 20 Total Support for the Revolution and no matter what, the other side will have Oslo.

Ok now, let’s go over the things you’ll be able to do once you’ve seized the means of production in Norway. If your senpai Stalin noticed you, there will be plenty of improvements to your industrial base, manpower and a close collaboration with the Soviet Union, and even help them invade Finland. Maybe the Arms Against Tyranny thing is just aspirational.

10. War in Finland Tooltip.png

If instead, you decided to go with uncle trotskij, as I said before, you’ll get an extra advisor and general, and that will put you behind the wheel of your very own communist faction, the Norintern with the focus ‘The Permanentest Revolution’. That’s what it’s actually called, and nobody has complained about it so I guess the name is final? Defend Finland, bring the war to Stalin, Sweden, Norway and even Hitler, bringing about a new, Trotskyist world order.

11.Permanentest Revolution Tooltip.png

To summarize, with Stalin you’ll get soldiers and industry. With Trotsky you’ll get easy wargoals and offensive bonuses. Your pick.

Now let’s move slightly to the right. To the allied democratic branch, which starts with a fictional Vote of No confidence that the Nygaardsvold government loses. This branch is what happens when militaristic industry tycoons take control of the government. It overlaps somewhat with the democratic branch, except you can skip the whole Broken Gun thing and go straight for rearmament, so you’ll have more time to get ready for what’s coming, but at the cost of a lot of civilian industry.

12. Alt Dem branch.png


This path leads to a more centralized government, so all the local preparations are pooled together, letting you start nation-wide initiatives, both during peacetime and war time.

13a. Military Preparedness Decisions.png

13b. Military Preparedness Decisions 2.png
13c. Military Preparedness Decisions 3.png


It also overlaps a little with the Trotskyist path, just not the commie parts, and you’ll be able to join the allies instead of forming your own faction.

14. Prepare for war and Join The Allies.png

Let’s keep going, I have actual work to do, so I’m gonna skip the historical path. A few things have changed, but not enough to care, and the dog is still there so onwards to the fascist path, which, of course there is one.

15 Fascist Path.png


It starts with The Stumbling Storting, in this reality the labor party fails to secure political stability for Norway, leaving the door open to fascists, and other undesirables.

16. Stumbling Storting event.png

Let’s go with Undesirable Elements #1, fascists. In this scenario Quisling is somewhat good at making people think he’s competent and that fascism is reasonable. The Nasjonal Samling will lurk in the shadows and build support for their agenda state by state, seeking support from the Fatherland League (A proto-fascist nationalist movement), industrialists, conservatives and even fascists abroad.

17. Lurk in the Shadows Decisions.png


Eventually, you’ll reach a familiar focus, ‘Quisling’s Coup’, except this time, you’re ready for it, you have built the support needed to make the takeover as easy as possible for you and the foreign fascist invaders, whom you invited! Yes, in this path you can invite the most suitable fascist regime to invade Norway so you can take over the government and help them on their fascist crusade. Don’t worry if they say no, that rejection will also allow you to start the coup without them, who needs Hitler anyway.

18. Nasjonal Samling Focus.png

The coup, as expected, will trigger a civil war in which, unlike the communist one, you’ll only control Oslofjord. That’s alright though, you prepared for this, which means that you can take over states where you built support in. If you only prepared base level support, you’ll get the state, not too shabby! But if you built more support, you will be rewarded for your efforts with a brand new Military Factory, and maybe even a couple of militias too if you fully prepared it.

19. Deploy Prep Decisions.png

This should put you on the right footing to start your fascist campaign, have fun making the world a worse place! Eventually, you’ll make it to your outlandish viking theme claims around the North Atlantic. Classic.

20. Old Vinland Tooltip.png

Now onto the last branch: The monarchist branch. For some reason a lot of people who want nordic focus trees also want a monarchist path, I can understand why, but I still think they’re wrong. I still made a monarchist path for Norway, whose king was reluctant to become their king, and even when he took over, by all accounts had no intention of becoming anything more than a figurehead.

21. Monarchist Branch.png


This reality starts much like the fascist one, with the Storting devolving into chaos, and the Royal Chamberlain, Anker Peder Wedel-Jarlsberg uses this opportunity to build support for a more involved monarchy, with his steady hand at the helm of course. Obviously, he is not part of the real Wedel-Jarlsberg noble family that lives in Norway, any similarities are purely coincidental, etc. He’s not Wedel-Jarlsberg with a ‘-’, his is a minus symbol. Just do me a favor and don’t tell the legal team, they don’t need to stress about it.

22. Anker Peder Wedel-Jarlsberg.png

Peder Anker will travel all around Norway proselytizing his monarchist cause, giving you bonuses for building defensive buildings, and adding more building slots, which will of course reduce the available manpower in the state, because, you know, they’re all busy being monarchists so they don’t have time to be soldiers.

23. Build Support for Monarchism Decisions.png

Except… If you go all the way with your monarchism you get 2 free militia divisions, and once you get the power as the Regent of Norway you can edit to your heart’s content. They’ve been so converted that they are now soldiers for monarchism.

24. Royal Militias.png

Once the Absolutist Regency is the rule of the land you’ll recruit the crown prince, Olav to join either the Navy or Army staff, since he was indeed employed in both during the war. In this case you’ll probably want him dedicating all his efforts on one thing, so he can become either a General or an Admiral and will allow you to specialize your country further.

25a. Olav to Army Staff.png
25b. Olav to Navy Staff.png


And of course you can get an extra set of outlandish claims. Faroe Islands, Iceland, Greenland, part of Russia, and even part of Sweden. At the end you’ll be able to consolidate your kingdom to make it easier for Peder Anker to rule over his king’s land.

26. Claims on Faroe Islands.png

And well that’s it. Obviously there’s tons more to unearth if you ask the right questions ;) and many more things I’ll either keep as a secret for release or haven’t implemented yet, like the new Trotskij portrait and the [Redacted] of [Redacted]. Also, don’t forget to stay tuned for the Sweden alt history Dev Diary, where you’ll see how wildly different the world would be if Sweden had privately managed vacation instead of state managed ones.
 
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*at best

In my view, he painted both as the same, and i'm cool with that. The fact that we're going several posts talking about this just because someone purposely ignore the "at best" phrase is mildly infuriating to me and i'm keen to hammer down the fact that he added that phrase.

Okay, i'm off to the new devdiary.
Looking at their posting history, I doubt they are arguing in good faith, so I'd just leave it here.
 
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Any information about who was the one leading the liberal/conservative Democratic government?
 
While I understand your opinion, I think that depriving the Norwegian focus tree of Haakon VII as a ruler and only explaining it with "It felt wrong" is wrong.
I get the impression Norway is the red-headed stepchild of this DLC anyway. Sweden and Finland got some really promising focus trees and I'm genuenly looking forward to play as them. With Norway, it's half-hearted content and "lol, look, they couldn't afford a proper tank!". I think I might wait for Norway to be improved by modders before I play a whole campaign with them, tbh, even though of course I'll try them out.
 
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I get the impression Norway is the red-headed stepchild of this DLC anyway. Sweden and Finland got some really promising focus trees and I'm genuenly looking forward to play as them. With Norway, it's half-hearted content and "lol, look, they couldn't afford a proper tank!". I think I might wait for Norway to be improved by modders before I play a whole campaign with them, tbh, even though of course I'll try them out.
I do at least get the impression that much more enthusiasm went into developing content for Sweden and Finland, and reading the historical Norway DD I am left with the impression that the content is developed with a somewhat caricatured and simplified (mis)conception of the Norwegian situation at the time. Perhaps that is some of the reason that the "push button to get militia" mechanic seems so out of place.

When the first Norway DD was released I was surprised that contrary to the previous DDs, it almost exclusively focused on the negatives and "LOLs", while really not including anything "cool". At the time I was hoping that they were saving all the "cool" stuff for later.

Anyways, I would encourage the (Swedish) Paradox developers to re-read the Norway DDs, compare them with Finland and Sweden, and reflect upon whether they themselves would feel somewhat dissapointed if the Swedish content was approached in the same way. And if you find that the Norwegian DDs, and how they hold up compared to the other DDs, reflect the state of the product, please consider doing something to at least try to narrow the gap a bit.
 
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I can envision a situation where totalitarianism (fascism or communism) gets serious influence in Norway and King Haakon steps forth to use his popularity to rally the democratic forces of the country in this time of peril.

In case he succeeded he might go on with the usual Nordic expansionism thing but rather through referendums in democratic and non-aligned countries. In case they refused to hold referendums haakonist elements might revolt. The same thing in totalitarian states, local revolts would erupt to join with haakonite Norway.

Something like this.
 
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@CarloPDX do you plan to disclose any more info on the Norwegian military in the DLC outside of the negative modifiers, prototype tank and alt. history militia divisions? Do you plan to include any types of jegers/ski infantry or anything to model the expertise in winter warfare? Will there be any new 3D models for Norway outside of the prototype tank?
 
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Is there the possibility of refloating the KMS Blücher after the Battle of Drøbak sound both for Germany once it takes all of Norway (or simply Oslo) or for Norway if it manages to defend its land and expel the Germans back into the Sea?
 
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Is there the possibility of refloating the KMS Blücher after the Battle of Drøbak sound both for Germany once it takes all of Norway (or simply Oslo) or for Norway if it manages to defend its land and expel the Germans back into the Sea?
Refloating is not modeled in game. If a ship (in harbor or at sea) is not sunk, it can be repaired. If it's sunk, it's gone.
 
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Maybe if you get Excavation V and have enough CFs for it you could do it.
Yeah, I personally think it'd be a cute 'reward' for the player to be able to get some north sea oil as Norway as long as it takes an appropriate amount of resources. As long as it requires high level excavation and and an investment that is so intimidating that it is not realistically worth doing outside of extreme niche scenarios to represent how hard it would have been historically I don't see the harm.

You can obviously say the same thing about other raw materials that only were exploited in the decades following WW2 historically but it would be a pretty niche feature that can easily be saved for future focus reworks.
 
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Is there the possibility of refloating the KMS Blücher after the Battle of Drøbak sound both for Germany once it takes all of Norway (or simply Oslo) or for Norway if it manages to defend its land and expel the Germans back into the Sea?
I think that would be beyond the scope of contemporary tech, too. Blücher sunk to 90 metres, as far as I recall people back then couldn't even dive that far.
Refloating ships (in certain situations) would be a cool new feature, though.
 
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Letting players toggle between viewing the portrait for the "Head of State" and the "Head of Government" is something you guys should consider adding somewhere down the pipeline. The whole Haakon "drama" would probably have been avoided if HOI4 had that functionality.
 
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Letting players toggle between viewing the portrait for the "Head of State" and the "Head of Government" is something you guys should consider adding somewhere down the pipeline. The whole Haakon "drama" would probably have been avoided if HOI4 had that functionality.
I mean, Democratic Japan and Britain has their PMs having their big portraits upfront with their monarchs as the ideas.

The drama about Haakon's position here is mainly because of lack of option to have him directly leading the country.

Realistically if he leads - and that is only after a considerable capital spending represented by consumer goods/political power/war support/stability penalties to make him agreed to lead on the first place - , he would bring further penalties related to aggresive expansions, and the monarchist tree would brings debuffs (or high requirements) too if he leads. Yes, that would be challenging, but at least one can play as him. Decisions to fix him would be there, but it can take enormous amount of those 4 things to do it.

This would make the Pacifist Monarchist Norway to be on par with Obedience Manchukuo in terms of hardness.
 
I feel that most people would be satisfied with a mere portrait switch, with him becoming a powerful symbol of resistance during the invasion while staying with the democratic ideology. One could justify this by saying Haakon effectively became the "real" leader of Norway after the government fled to London while Haakon stayed behind.
 
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I think that would be beyond the scope of contemporary tech, too. Blücher sunk to 90 metres, as far as I recall people back then couldn't even dive that far.
Refloating ships (in certain situations) would be a cool new feature, though.
I understand, but the Blucher was slow to sink, initially it listed and was like that for almost a whole day before completely sinking, it could be a mini event for both nations to take measures to rescue it, once time passes and the requirements are not completed or measures have not been taken to save it, the opportunity to recover it is lost, do you understand my idea? It would seem like an interesting event for the game or so I think.
 
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It's actually my second favourite path. And about making it a choice, HoI4 is not a sandbox, or at least not to the degree other PDX games are. HoI focus trees, specially the modern ones, have a narrative we craft and represent in the content. It's a somewhat curated experience, so we do not pretend to let you have all the options if we don't think it's worth it. If I make it so you can have either, then that's a betrayal of the narrative I hope to build for that path.
Okay, you say all that but you can put a bear in charge as the leader of Poland. Not letting us choose to have the actual Monarch as leader of Norway because you and your personal bias is something that sets a terrible precedent for Paradox as a whole. Be ashamed.

Edit: Let's not forget that you can also get Adolf Hitler as a leader for Fascist America, sure it's a small percentage but it's still there. Choices matter, and not having the choice of the actual monarch for Norway's Monarchist branch is very disappointing.
 
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Okay, you say all that but you can put a bear in charge as the leader of Poland. Not letting us choose to have the actual Monarch as leader of Norway because you and your personal bias is something that sets a terrible precedent for Paradox as a whole. Be ashamed.

Edit: Let's not forget that you can also get Adolf Hitler as a leader for Fascist America, sure it's a small percentage but it's still there. Choices matter, and not having the choice of the actual monarch for Norway's Monarchist branch is very disappointing.
Agreed. At this point we can only hope the community's overwhelming feedback has been heard. People liked Sweden, people liked Denmark. Overall I like Norway, but Haakon needs to be added just like Gustav, Christian, and every other countries monarch that has been reworked the last several DLC's.
 
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