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CO Word of the Week #5

This week I’ll keep things brief and focus on what’s happening on modding. As suspected, modders wait for no-one and they have already achieved really cool stuff like maps and code mods which is amazing!

Cities: Skylines II release build included an unfinished version of the Editor and it didn’t take long for it to be found. The modders took almost no time to figure out how they could create maps and started to advance the Editor tools to their liking. Again, just like with the first Cities game I am astonished by the effort you are all putting into modding the game. I love it!

However, I must ask for caution because any work done with the hidden unfinished Editor may break since there are still going to be changes to it. This is not to discourage you from working on your mods but rather to try and openly share what to expect. Some of the most notable changes will be in how the maps are saved so we can’t guarantee the maps saved on an unfinished version of the Editor will work with the game in the long run. We’re currently testing the map Editor and there are already changes to the water placement and landscaping tools so any tools made touching upon these are also likely to break. The Editor will be released early next year, so until then don’t let that stop you, just be aware that you may need to rework some things later on.

To further help the modding community we’ve updated the wiki to include more information on asset creation. You will notice there are no instructions for the level of detail models. This is because we’re working towards an automated system where you wouldn’t have to worry about the LODs unless you actually want to make them by hand (or the complexity of the asset requires it). Any other information will be added to the wiki as it becomes available.

We would like to invite all mod, map, and asset creators to join early access to the Editor for a few weeks before its release so you can see what it is like, test out your already created mods, and share your feedback with us. If you have experience creating mods for Cities: Skylines please sign up here.

I can’t wait to see all the things coming for Cities: Skylines II from the modding community!

And finally a quick update on the higher priority items mentioned last week: Performance improvements are on their way as we’re reducing the cost of rendering geometry. Bug fixing is going forward nicely and the mail and export bugs are getting sorted out. We are also working on a fix for some achievements not unlocking, statistics bugs, and a taxi getting stuck because someone left their child in it. Parenting is hard. A full list of fixes is introduced with each patch, so check the patch notes if you are interested in more details!

You may expect a bigger patch coming out in December before we go on a holiday break in three weeks. During the break, there are no patches and limited responses from the team while we take time off work. But until then, we’re working our hardest!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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co_martsu said:
I am proud for the work done and even if we did run out of time I know the the team and myself are working our hardest to improve game
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@co_martsu Mariina, stop digging - the headlines are writing themselves at the moment "Game dev boss admits devs ran out of time but promises game will be fixed some day" :eek::oops::D Have a word with your PR people, or Paradox's, or someone, please.

Joking aside, at least you are acknowledging that running out of time was indeed a factor in the game's botched release state, thank you for that.
 
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G315t said:
Let's assume they would give you the requested Information which they probaply won't ( pls remember PDX is public shared entity, there may also be legal reasons for why they or CO can not share interna) , what would you do with it? And would you believe their answer?
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What would I do about it? Nothing? Would I brew my favorite coffee??
Such information would probably be public, so every player would have access to it.
I am just a small burnt match that no longer burns with the fire of trust in CO. It's up to the rest of the players whether they trust them by buying another product or not.
I won't make that mistake.
Would I believe what they said? NO. Words are words. Actions matter more than they do. However, it would be nice if they mentioned something about it.
 
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co_martsu said:
To everyone here: I get there's anger and disappointment, but I really need you to be respectful to each other. You and I are part of this community and we are the ones making the choices on how we want this experience to be. There is enough negativity in the world that we should at least try to make this community a positive experience by keeping the discussions, even the hard ones, constructive. We're not perfect, but let's be kind to each other.

Trust is hard. After losing it, it will take time to rebuild. And we must now do the work. Mistakes have been made but I believe in learning and that growth both emotional and professional is possible, if there is will. So whatever the next title coming from this company is we are wiser both during the development phase and the release. However these words mean very little now, we will just have to prove ourselves with the next game we release. And first, I hope, we can focus on Cities: Skylines II for about a decade.

I believe there is greatness in the game. It's not translating to the players as we hoped it would and that is something we are working on to improve. I am proud for the work done and even if we did run out of time I know the the team and myself are working our hardest to improve game so the experience wouldn't be hindered by the issues. Performance is one thing, bugs another and then we have a wide variety of feedback to work through.
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Yes, there is absolutely greatness in this game - thats why we are (still) here.

But why are you not providing detailed information how it "should" work in certain cases?

A harsh assumption would be: You don´t know because its not implemented.

My assumption is: Communication-Wise there is a problem between developers and CM.

It can´t be that hard. And it would help everyone in the line.
 
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unmerged(524934) said:
@co_martsu Mariina, stop digging - the headlines are writing themselves at the moment "Game dev boss admits devs ran out of time but promises game will be fixed some day" :eek::oops::D Have a word with your PR people, or Paradox's, or someone, please.

Joking aside, at least you are acknowledging that running out of time was indeed a factor in the game's botched release state, thank you for that.
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Yes, I did get scolded by @co_avanya and I apologize to them too for causing extra headaches. I will have PR people check the next wow with a magnifying glass, I promise. I bet they are relieved I'm actually not on X (Twitter)!


All joking aside, there's a lot of things needing to be addressed. And the first course of action is taken very soon when a bugfixing patch is released.
 
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I appreciate you coming here and answering questions @co_martsu . I have no idea how hard it must be to deal with strangers online while dealing with the problems of the game.

That said, I hope you guys understand that is very frustrating for the player base to be used as basically beta testers for the game while paying full price for it. I know the people working there are good and experienced devs, so exactly because of that is hard to understand how the game was released in a state of disarray like that. Nobody noticed the hundreds of bugs the player base is finding daily? That's kind of hard to believe.

I understand you didn't have enough time to launch the game as you probably wanted, and that is not solely your fault (I know how companies have to please stockholders and all that). But even then, it's not acceptable.

You're probably getting the full blunt of players that are tired of having to deal with another incomplete game. It's the norm nowadays. "Release the game and we'll fix things later". I think that most of the frustration here comes from players thinking that you guys would know better.

Good luck on your job from now on. Hope you get the game working as it should and I also hope that you guys understand the problem here.
 
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Kanslee144 said:
I appreciate you coming here and answering questions @co_martsu . I have no idea how hard it must be to deal with strangers online while dealing with the problems of the game.

That said, I hope you guys understand that is very frustrating for the player base to be used as basically beta testers for the game while paying full price for it. I know the people working there are good and experienced devs, so exactly because of that is hard to understand how the game was released in a state of disarray like that. Nobody noticed the hundreds of bugs the player base is finding daily? That's kind of hard to believe.

I understand you didn't have enough time to launch the game as you probably wanted, and that is not solely your fault (I know how companies have to please stockholders and all that). But even then, it's not acceptable.

You're probably getting the full blunt of players that are tired of having to deal with another incomplete game. It's the norm nowadays. "Release the game and we'll fix things later". I think that most of the frustration here comes from players thinking that you guys would know better.

Good luck on your job from now on. Hope you get the game working as it should and I also hope that you guys understand the problem here.
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Kanslee is right, the outrage is not all because of problems in the game but also partially caused be the frustration that we gamers feel in general, with game after game that is released in bad shape nowadays, so don't take bad words and overreactions personal.

I look forward to the patch.
 
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G315t said:
Kanslee is right, the outrage is not all because of problems in the game but also partially caused be the frustration that we gamers feel in general, with game after game that is released in bad shape nowadays, so don't take bad words and overreactions personal.

I look forward to the patch.
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This is nothing new. This video is 10 years old, but people haven't learned their lesson:

#HouseBiscuit
 
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co_martsu Thank you so much for your honesty. We may sound mad at you, but it is because we love this game so much that we want it to be enjoyable, playable, and who knows... perfect. Thank you again for the upcoming fixes. And maybe free quality contents in the future for us would be more than appreciated.
 
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Please ask Steam to open refunds for those of us with over 2 hours of game time.

I would like my money back, thank you.
 
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You don't owe anyone an apology. The first game's success was built on a decade of work. This just came out. People need to learn patience and how to accept hard truths. You are right. If people do not like something they have the choice to not engage in it. There are many people that love the game, people that know you are all working diligently on improvements, and people who already paid for the Ultimate version and understand that you have things to sort out and can wait a little longer while you do. Do not be discouraged by entitlement and keep doing the good work you all do.
 
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Garanteed said:
You don't owe anyone an apology. The first game's success was built on a decade of work. This just came out. People need to learn patience and how to accept hard truths. You are right. If people do not like something they have the choice to not engage in it. There are many people that love the game, people that know you are all working diligently on improvements, and people who already paid for the Ultimate version and understand that you have things to sort out and can wait a little longer while you do. Do not be discouraged by entitlement and keep doing the good work you all do.
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That's called complacency and masochism. People are not here demanding to have everything CS1 has; they are here demanding that they did not receive what they bought and what the company promised. Furthermore, the game is flawed at its core.
 
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co_martsu said:
Trust is hard. After losing it, it will take time to rebuild. And we must now do the work. Mistakes have been made but I believe in learning and that growth both emotional and professional is possible, if there is will.
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Something stupid was said in a moment of pasion, but the history of support for CS1 still has me here anticipating a good future. And maybe next time we let the social media team handle the posting instead?
 
There's one more very important thing, and why people latched onto the "the simulation is as designed" statement: we don't know what is a bug and what is a feature. Thus, we can't decide if the game is for us, or not.

Are children going to school at age 0, creating unreasonable primary school demands, a bug or a feature?

Are wares teleporting around without any delivery vehicles having to traverse our meticulously-crafted networks a bug or a feature?

Are majority of cims not going to work, somehow working remotely at steel mills and fish canneries, a bug or a feature?

If the answers to those (and more) are that they are bugs, then there's hope. Bugs can be fixed and we can enjoy the game eventually even if not now.

If the answers are that they're as intended, then that means your "super ultra hyper mega complex realistic simulation" is nothing but surface-level smoke and mirrors, and there is no hope.

I'd really like you to address all, or at least most, of issues people have with the sim and clearly state whether it's as designed or a bug.
 
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dan1979 said:
You've either posted the wrong screenshot or failed to read the Steam refund policy correctly.

In either case, you might want to be a bit more careful before calling people fools in future.
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I actually realized after the post I do not qualify because I've owned the game for more than 2 weeks. Doesn't matter a single bit of course since I'm still not claiming my money back after hours of playing, nor that those who are "demanding their money back" after many hours of playing and many weeks of ownership are total and utter fools.
 
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Angius said:
Are majority of cims not going to work, somehow working remotely at steel mills and fish canneries, a bug or a feature?
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This for sure is an equation that just needs balancing. But I think it's unreasonable to expect to see every cim go to work every day. CPU's can barely handle 40% as it is it seems. But yeah, I'd love to see the more obvious physical in person jobs have more workers appearing without it being at the cost of other jobs like offices
 
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co_martsu said:
The game won't change into something it's not but we can make sure that our vision and intent comes across clearly for everyone playing.
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My recommendation for this is to make sure that the game at a minimum is on par with CS:1 in it's final stage.
Yes, there are some very cool features with CS:2, but they are being overshadowed by the bugs (already addressed) and by the lack of ... almost everything else.

Assuming CS:2 was functioning as intended, it is at launch extremely sparse. Very little of interest to keep people engaged. You have the systems in place to make something very cool, but these weren't taken advantage of - the industries, for example. The same method for plotting out Oil, Farms, Landfills, etc. should have been used for parks and housing plots - and yes, it can be done simply because we can do it going through developer tools *right now.*

The only reason it's not is because you don't it want to.

That method of city building should have replaced the zoning squares, which have been reviled since ... well, pretty much their inception. Using an updated zoning method like the industries would have addressed one of the largest general complaints of the game - the inability to get away from the grid, and create organic or more European cities.

Additionally, the lack of access to detailing assets when they're already in the game is just beyond me. You may as well as have had roads with no cars.

Provide those two things, and this game will turn around in a heartbeat.

Use CS:1 final release as your bar, meet that (meaning, if it's in CS:1, a version of it should be in CS:2 out the gate) - in tone and feel, then go beyond it. Because right now, you're far below that minimum.
 
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In regards to the comments about missing information on how the simulation works, I just wanted to mention, that if you come across some great discussions on this, either here on the forum, Reddit, or really anywhere, we'd appreciate the heads-up. There's a LOT to dig into when it comes to how the simulation works, so it's important that we understand what information you're looking for - both for any potential deep dives we might do and what information is available in the game through notifications and info views.
 
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