• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Maps #1 - 10th of May 2024 - Low Countries

Hello everybody, and welcome to the first post of Tinto Maps! This is a new weekly series that we will be running about the top-secret game Project Caesar.

Let me introduce myself before I continue, as some of you may get to know me from the development of the latest EUIV DLCs, but I might not be as well-known to everyone as Johan. I’m Pavía, the Content Design Lead at Paradox Tinto, which I joined in 2021. Before becoming a videogame developer, my background was as a Historian, which led me to work on a PhD. in Medieval History (fool me!), which I finished in 2020. Besides that, I’ve spent several thousands of hours of my life playing Paradox GSGs since I discovered and started playing Europa Universalis 20 years ago, in 2004.

What this new series will be about is quite straightforward: each week I will be sharing with you maps of a new different region, so you have an outlook of them and we are able to receive early feedback (because as you may already know from Johan’s Tinto Talks, there is still a lot of WIP stuff ongoing).

About this feedback, we’d like you to take into account a couple of things. The first is that we’ve worked really hard to gather the best sources of information available to craft the best possible map; we used GIS tools with several layers of historical map sources from academic works, geographical data, administrative data, etc., to help us ensure the desired quality. So we would appreciate getting specific suggestions backed by these types of sources, as others (let’s say, a Wikipedia map or YouTube video with no references) may not be reliable enough. The second thing to comment on is that sometimes a certain decision we made was an interpretation over an unclear source, while sometimes we have just plainly made some errors when crafting the map (which on a 30,000 location map is a normal thing, I guess). I’ll let you know when any of these happen, and I’m also going to ask for your understanding when an error or bug is found and confirmed as such.

With those forewords said, let’s start with today’s region: the Low Countries! This is what the political map looks like:

Countries.png

The regional situation in 1337. The counties of Hainaut, Holland, and Zeeland are ruled by William of Avesnes, who is married to Joanna, daughter of Duke John III of Brabant. Another John, the Duke of Luxembourg, might be the strongest power, as he is also the King of Bohemia. The County of Flanders is the wealthiest country in the region, controlling such important cities as Brugge and Ghent. Up in the north, we have other interesting countries, such as the Bishopric of Utrecht or the Republic of Frisia (you might notice that we're using a dynamic custom country name for them, 'Frisian Freedom').

And here we have the locations:

Locations.png

We had a fun bug for some time - Antwerpen didn’t have any pixels connected to the sea, which we found because we couldn’t build any type of port building there. There’s a happy ending, as the bug has already been corrected, and Antwerpen can finally have a proper port!

Provinces:

Provinces.jpg


Terrain (Climate, Topography, and Vegetation):

Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

We are aware that the Netherlands looked differently in the 14th century, as several land reclamations took place during the Late Medieval and Early Modern periods, but we are using a 20th-century version of the map for the sake of consistency. Most of the regions throughout the world would look quite different from nowadays, and documenting those changes (especially the coastline shapes) would be a non-trivial problem to resolve. As a side note, we already removed Flevoland from it, and have already identified some other modern ones that slipped through and we'll eventually remove them, as well.

Cultures:

Cultures.png

The stripes mean that there are pops of different culture inhabiting in those location. Also, the German and French cultures are WIP, we’ll show you a proper version on later Tinto Maps.

Religions:

Religions.png

Not many religions here yet, although there will be interesting religious stuff happening eventually…

Raw Goods:

Goods.png

Goods get regularly swapped around here and there to have a balance between geographical and historical accuracy, and gameplay purposes. So take this as the far-from-final current version of them.

And an additional map for this week:

Markets.png

We reinstated a Low Countries market centered on Antwerpen, after doing some balance tweaks that made it more viable.

And these are the maps for today! I hope that you have a nice weekend, and next Friday, we will travel down south, to Iberia!
 

Attachments

  • Climate.jpg
    Climate.jpg
    357,1 KB · Views: 0
  • Topography.jpg
    Topography.jpg
    402,8 KB · Views: 0
  • Vegetation.jpg
    Vegetation.jpg
    414,6 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
  • 338Love
  • 131Like
  • 6
  • 3
  • 1Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
Question regarding the map! Will certain terrain types such (all three classifications) be able to change as the game progresses? For example, the swamps of europe being cleared and turned into grassland or forests over time. If it is not an existing mechanic, could we hopefully see the means for modders to add such a feature? One part of this time period was the massive scale of land reclamations not only from the sea but from the many wetlands and marshes across europe!

Edit: NVM saw this was already semi-answered
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Why is the province west Friesland called west Friesland? In my opinion the location of Hoorn is what would be called west Friesland today (and because of the majority frisian culture there, back then aswell), so i would suggest west Friesland could be renamed to Friesland, while Hoorn just stays as Hoorn.
 
  • 6Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Loving the data on the map, but, if it's not already on your radar, I'd strongly suggest adding a color gradient to the population map, or adding a gradient map in addition to this text-based one.
I like the culture map mode a lot, big fan of the stripes and I can see myself just getting an unjustified amount of entertainment from just looking at that, but the population map mode is very dry, also doesn't seem particularly legible from more zoomed out views.
Loved looking at the culture map mode in Vic2 and Ceu5ar seems even better. I also loved just looking at the population map in Vic2, seeing my capital city turning more and more red while the game progresses, so I don't wanna lose out on the "line go up" feeling in a game that seems to collect all my favorite parts of both Vic2 and Imperator.
 
  • 7Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
It would be amazing if the tech behind EU5 permits the map to change over the course of the game! This would be extremely useful for a bunch of nations, and would be even more useful for modders!
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
I believe the Low Countries had a heavy dependence on English wool to supply its cloth production (its main industry at the time) around the beginning of the HYW. This was important enough to impact the diplomacy around the war. So I'm not sure if having wool resources nearby would fit with the historical economic dynamics of the area.
There is very little wool production in this region, so a reliance on imported wool will still be in game.
 
  • 6Like
Reactions:
The regional situation in 1337. The counties of Hainaut, Holland, and Zeeland are ruled by William of Avesnes, who is married to Joanna, daughter of Duke John III of Brabant. Another John, the Duke of Luxembourg, might be the strongest power, as he is also the King of Bohemia.
Not a map question but... how are dynastic details like this modeled in the game? More like CrusaderKings, like EUIV or somewhat in-between? With a 1337 start date, some family model seems to still be relevant.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:
what is the ingame implications of that? troops moving slower in forests? does it matter outside warfare?

Slower movement speed for everything, and some other impacts.

Forests can block Fog of War completely, while Wood can only block visibility from the sea.
 
  • 66Love
  • 32Like
  • 11
  • 2
Reactions:
"I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."

" I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!"
 
  • 48Haha
  • 10Like
Reactions:
Love seeing my home region being depicted here. But couldn't help but notice some names are a bit off especially West Friesland which is in the complete wrong location, the historical West Friesland is the one you refer to as Hoorn and the West Friesland in the provinces map is better just called Friesland as it is called today still. Not long before the game start date the real West Friesland was cut of by the rest of Friesland by one of the biggest floods in recorded Dutch history and in the years in between and even up till 1337 the duces of Holland were trying to subjugate those Frisians surviving on the west of the strait, which you do have shown as pops.
 
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions:
We had 3 options for the cultures:
1. Just go with Dutch, based on the language.
2. Portray the 4 regional variants/dialects of Middle Dutch (Flemish, Brabantic, Hollandic, Limburgic), plus Dutch Low Saxon.
3. Opting for an intermediate level, grouping Flemish, Brabantic, and Limburgic under Flemish, and Hollandic and Dutch Low Saxon groups under Dutch (as they also had a really close relationship). This is the one we decided to go to, for the moment.
It is up to the culture mechanic. If there were any assimilation mechanic that allows united nation-state to assimilate minor cultures quickly, option 2 is acceptable.

Hope that we could review this after the TT about culture affairs. We really do not have much to say for now.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: