• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #13 - 22nd of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we give out top-secret information about our upcoming unannounced game with the code name Project Caesar. This time we will touch a little bit on the aspect of religion in this game.

Vx1JCi0SoIWC_RmTIABR5snAPEW7QH88Ou7sQF4_68eXfurIipvfOB1Qrem_EmgkojIrk4PtQRImFu8qP6SKvEfv7HWXWPiezhibwcnYZOP58S42b3cfEGqm6O7DRp_D8CMBgY3Mka_qR5rChmo7R9w


Every country, pop, or character has a religion they adhere to. This impacts their relationship with the place they currently are, and their relationship with others in the world.


Cb9pnYM2UZhOJuDXSumhcymKxx2JoY_R62xRWwYAFWTr7CxP-zi4GRFUxyqOJu-L8BRZPrucPIpVemt_xPAZeOFo6OrkXuTq1TE8ZJtDAVTFZh38tk_KbqcbmCZaZVRuircaN3rG_dlGRp7ytUkXkPA

This is the religious setup of Aragon in 1337.

Every religion in Project Caesar belongs to a Religion Group, such as Christianity or Paganism. Fellow religions in the same group consider each other to be merely Heretic, whereas religions in different groups condemn each other as Heathen.

Every religion has a specific view of other religions as well, that ranges from Kindred to Enemy, which impacts relations between countries of different faiths, and how populations of another faith view your country.

Each country also has their own tolerance of their true faith, of heretics, and of heathens, which impacts how happy or angry the population will be depending on which country they belong to.


P3fulF18GNuLbeWWGxQEoTswmW53zqebOn67gFrZgYiFZzPc50UCdUMGekW2CpW9CcwFK4UPKqghkR5zuap96Byb91DDDmPZ3z7zyfdNxlk2Y8iANF0Uebf8bDGbKO4TA-bpg_GgdELXl_MpQR9hX0Q

The Same Religion here, is from the law relating to valid heirs.

The religious unity of your country has a really large impact on the satisfaction of your Clergy Estate.

Important to know is that in Project Caesar, you just do not send missionaries to your locations and eventually they have changed religion. Here conversion is a slower process, which relies on government activities and infrastructure.


YY6_rIi-5JIE7LribzG4wD9uCXOZkyRMh_lFe75rrkAU1pQW8kjiGTY3esOhQgKjtHd_rT0ynXABgm0LVXdBsKVTeVKay_3E2-r2m10aHdLvBE-E8GDT8ffYlf_XVccq_5CtV-umvgnmHtXlIM1RUbA

A unique building for Muslim countries that has a tiny impact on conversion.

Each religion belongs to a group, which impacts which tolerance is applied and how religions interact with each other. Religions in the same group are viewed as heretics, but those of another group as heathens.

The groups we currently have are, but that may change as we continue to develop the game.
  • Christian
  • Muslim
  • Eastern
  • Dharmic
  • Zoroastrian
  • Manichean
  • Judean
  • Andean
  • Pagan

cpBNm-1BHHQ4tLRTSf4UHDmm0eLzrewF9YnmUhGrFFUsVDRKJjdF0UeFLrpXVyReQJNeP_9t7sq8mpjHQJYWiM6PmtJQjtuVWyvCQWnINZRC1GofCobMRaG7f4XVcyXh041J-FN1mqibkEcF6Iwzeos

The current Christian religions. Take into account that they are very much WIP!

In some games we have made there have not been any major differences between religions, merely being different modifiers, and while some religions in Project Caesar are still only a few modifiers, many will have mechanics. Right now, we have made unique mechanics for Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Miaphysitism, the various Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Shinto, Nahuatl, Hinduism & the Inti religion. Each of these will get their own unique later development diary.

Now every religion will still have some modifiers that describe them, in many cases it is things that enable or disable certain mechanics. Some examples include the fact that countries with Jain as their state religion can not start wars without a casus belli, and that Calvinist countries will never reroll the dice in a battle, as everything is preordained.

Stay tuned for next week, where we talk about another completely new feature that adds flavor to the game.

Sadly, I can’t reply today, as I am at some management thingie in Stockholm, but @Pavía will help you out!
 
  • 250Like
  • 93Love
  • 16Haha
  • 10
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:
Looks good! I just hope whatever’s happening with China and Korea that Vietnam isn’t left out ;(

Imo it was kinda random in EU4 how Ming and Korea started as Confucian but Dai Viet started as Mahayana, even though they all share the same “Three Teachings” (Confucian/Daoist/Mahayana) trio
 
  • 3
Reactions:
All of this is really cool. I like to see a much more diverse world (especially considering that the Animist blob is just a massive placeholder). Just a few questions, though:
1. I see 3-4 religions in modern-day Mexico, which is pretty cool, but are they part of the Pagan religious group or, just like the Andean religions, of another group entirely?
2. About the (very much WIP, as I can see) Andean group: considering that it is a whole group, does that mean that we will actually see differences between the faiths of various people of the area (the religion of the chimu, for instance, was somewhat different from that of the Incans)?
3. Will most religions get their unique mechanics and quirks, or will it be like in EU4 where some religions share the same mechanic (like Coptic and Zoroastrian share the holy site mechanic, of Alcheringa, Fetishist, Hindu and Norse all share the same cult/personal deity thing with slight variations between them)
4. You have mentioned "organized religions", does that mean that the whole reform religion to do basically anything other than existing of Native American religions will be back, or is it there just to group many religions from many different religion groups, or something else entirely?
5. About relations between different religions: will they be completely static or will there be events that may change that, just like muslim religious schools in EU4?

Last, as already pointed out in a comment:

Nāhuatl is a name that refers to multiple Uto-Aztecan languages (because there are more than 20 different varieties of Nāhuatl if i remember correctly), with Nāhuatl being the one we usually think about, other than the official language of the Aztec Empire (the word nāhautl itself means "clear-sounding", which has little to do with religion), and Inti is just a god of various Andean religions that in many faiths of the area is important, but not the most important (sometimes even less important than the moon goddess). So it would be better to rename those to something different, and I like the names proposed in the comment (so Nahuatl -> Tēōtl(-ism?) and Inti -> Huaca/Wak'a(-ism?)). The latter might not be a problem if there are more religions with different main gods though.
1. Nahuatl, Mesoamerican, Mayan religions are present in Mesoamerica, apart from Animists.
2. Currently only Inti religion.
3. There will be 'shared religious features' (e.g. holy sites), and there will be 'unique religious features' (e.g. the Catholic Curia).
4. It's an informal concept I used, not a game concept.
5. There will be room to have some relation changes, but others will be fixed.
6. Noted the alternative terms that can be used for Nahuatl and Inti religions.
 
  • 22
  • 15Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
I'll have to admit I'm not a specialist, but concidering that Estonia and Latvia went through a wave of Pagan uprisings less then a decade after the game start I doubt they were so catholic irl.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Looking at the map further with the sea corridors. I so many questions which is not the place dev diary place to ask for. When will there be Tinto Talks for that topic?
Yes.
 
  • 31Haha
  • 10Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Please make Ottomans' map color Red this game.. Pls :oops:

I know this is not the dev diary to talk about this, but this was the first one i got to comment so. Sorry for that but pls make it red.
 
Last edited:
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I kinda wish you'd have divided Islam similarly to how divided Christianity was. I don't even mean distinguishing between the 4 Sunni Imams (which would be nice, and wouldn't make Sunnism any weaker with the "kindred" system); but representation for the separate Shia branches like Ismailis and Zaydis as well as the Abassids' state religion during Al Mamun's reign and for much of the Abassids history, the Mutazilite school, would be really cool.

Other "sects of Islam" that can be represented would be the Alawites and the Druze (in quotations since I don't think Druze consider themselves Muslims, just Muwahhids). If those two are too niche, then representation of 'eastern gnostics' as a catch-all term for the insular, non-prosleytising religions in the region would work too. And since the Christians get something as esoteric as Strigolnichestvo represented; can the Muslims get the pagans of Harran represented (by now, they'll be calling themsleves Sabaens).
Alawites or Druze should be in game, as sects, if they historically had high numbers enough to be represented in game such as EU5, I mean, project Caesar, sorry Johan.
4 imams teachings, or Shia branches, on the other hand, not. They could exist in game similar to EU4, or as an option through clergy estate, or certain laws or reforms, but not as a separate branches of islam.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
It will be possible to change state religion as in the CKs or like the previous EUs changes allowed are mostly from Catholic to Protestant/Reformed and from "native religions" to "organized ones"?
It will be possible to change the state religion, yes.
 
  • 29Like
  • 7Love
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:
Are those modifiers for religions static or can they change.
Take the catholic church in 1450, it was quiet different then, than it was in 1750
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Will it be possible for a late-game country to secularize (laïcité)?

In EUIV it's really weird to have a government reform wich is 'separate the clergy from the state' and then... having a state religion and sending missionaries.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:
The latter might not be a problem if there are more religions with different main gods though.
This is an intriguing idea, it is true that the Incas promoted Inti over other deities. Perhaps it could also work similar to the Islamic schools system of EU4, where they aren't distinct religions but each country has one assigned.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
We think so, more details about this representation when we fully disclose the Buddhism mechanics in the future.
I was going to say, I'm pleasantly surprised that China has Mahayana religion. I've always been critical of the Mahayana/Confucian split in EU4 and I think it is better to represent religion as syncretic Mahayana Buddhism and model Confucianism as more of an ideology or set of political principles.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Does that hint at a possible “customize your religion” feature, as in CK3, or is it rather a replay of the aspects of faith of EUIV?

I think religions should be customizable in the long run, but it shouldn’t be a walk in the park as it is in CK3. You should have to garner support for your reforms and if you don’t have enough, it should create dramatic splits difficult to mend.
The system works differently from CK3 and EUIV. And it's not a 'customize your religion' one in general terms, although some religions will have some available actions that will make them more dynamic than others.
 
  • 31Like
  • 14
  • 2
  • 1Love
Reactions:
Will there be holy sites for each religion?

And, will there be buffs for converting a certain region (or a religion controlling all its holy sites if those are in game)? Kinda like in Ck3 with how the Zoroastrians get the Saoshyant buffs if they capture all of Persia back from the Muslims.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I see Calvinists here, so that would mean that we would have historical religions sprouting during the Reformation. Maybe it would be great to add some dynamic, ahistorical religions along the same historical religions that we have today?
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions: