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Tinto Maps #5 - 7th of June 2024 - Italy

Hello everyone, and welcome to the fifth Tinto Maps! This week we will be sharing the map of Italy.

One comment before we start: we know that you might be eager to discuss other regions that may appear partially on the DD, such as the Balkans. Let’s try to keep the conversations separated in different threads, please; every region will get its own Tinto Maps, and we will show them and gather feedback in due time, in their own DD.

With that said, let’s start!:

Countries
Countries.jpg

The situation of Italy in 1337 is quite interesting. The main power in the peninsula is the Kingdom of Naples, ruled by King Robert I, who is also ruler of Provence, and a few minor countries in Northern Italy; his efforts towards the domination of Italy also made him the leader of the Guelph faction in Italy, which backs the Pope. Speaking of him, the seat of the Curia is at Avignon, and regaining control over the Papal States and moving it back to Rome might take some time and effort. Opposite to all of them, there is the Ghibelline faction, led by the Signoria of Milan, ruled by the Visconti dynasty. They are backed by other important powers in the Italian region, such as the Superb Republic of Genoa, or the Duchy of Verona, ruled by the dynasty of della Scala. There are also neutral powers, like the Republics of Venice or Siena, although they could be attracted to join one of the factions. And we also have foreign powers that have already set a foothold in Italy, such as the Crown of Aragon, which has established a branch of its dynasty as Kings of Sicilia, while also recently conquering some lands in Sardinia.

g&gs.png

Guelphs.jpg

Ghibellines.jpg

Guelphs and Ghibellines factions! They are International Organizations part of a Situation.

Dynasties
dynasties.png


Locations
Locations.jpg

There is an interesting density in Italy, especially in the North, where there are plenty of communes - the Italian city-states. You might also notice something a bit different from previous Paradox GSGs: Venice is not an island, but the location has lands around the lagoon. We aren’t 100% sure that this will be the final design, as we have a few ideas to try to keep its special position on an island inside the lagoon while addressing the issue of it being too small to appear in the map; in this regard, we’re open about feedback and ideas on the topic.

Provinces
Provinces.jpg

Any naming suggestions about the provinces are well-received, as usual.

Terrain
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Three usual terrain layers. Something that I want to comment on is that we’ve been following this thread about ‘Revising Flatlands and hills’, and we are trying to get a bit more granularity in the Topographical map with the help of @SulphurAeron .

Cultures
Cultures.jpg

Italy is also a region with a sharp cultural division, and also plenty of minorities; although they don’t appear on the map, there are Italki Jews, or Greek and Albanian people in the South, among others.

Religions
Religion.jpg

Another boring region, with more than 90% of the population being Catholic, with most of the religious minorities being Italkim Jews and Orthodox Greeks. We're considering implementing Waldensians, although adding more diverging Catholic heresies/confessions is a bit of a low priority for us right now. As a side note, it might catch your eye the Krstjani of Bosnia; we’ll discuss them later on, in the Tinto Maps devoted to the Balkans.

Raw Goods
Raw Goods.jpg

Italy is a rich region with plenty of interesting raw materials.

Markets
Markets.jpg

There are three market centers in Italy: Genoa, Venice, and Naples (which was a very, very rich country in 1337, the wealthiest of the region). As usual, take into account that. 1. We don't script in the setup which locations belong to each market, they're automatically assigned to each market. 2. This starting distribution is not final, and it might change, as we do tweaks to the market access calculations over time.

Population
Pops Countries.jpg

Pops Locations.png

There is around 10.5M population in the Italian region as of now. Taking into account how divided the political landscape is, Naples looks scary…

And that’s all for this week! For the next one, we will be talking about the British Isles, with @SaintDaveUK . See you!
 
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Sure:

View attachment 1145320
View attachment 1145321

About the dependencies, is too early to showcase them, sorry about that; but if you could provide with the specific relations (Robert was lord of this signoria, overlord of that other polity, etc.), it would still be helpful for us.
Well, thanks for this, as I wasn's able to see earlier that Legnano is spelled wrong! (Lognano -> Legnano)
 
Sure:

View attachment 1145320
View attachment 1145321

About the dependencies, is too early to showcase them, sorry about that; but if you could provide with the specific relations (Robert was lord of this signoria, overlord of that other polity, etc.), it would still be helpful for us.
Nice!
I can't help myself, so have a suggestion for the French-Italian passes, basically a fancier version of my map from the France thread.
frenchalps.png

Everything mentioned in the French thread still applies, I've added three locations:
Embrun to stop Sisteron from snaking up like crazy. Biella, which had its own commune, the statutes of which can be found online.

And regarding Monferrato: Chivasso was the residence of the Marquis until 1434 when they lost the city and moved to Casale.
I'd say there are two options: Split Monferrato into Chivasso (west) and Casale (east), or keep it as it is.
Since Casale was Visconti-owned between 1370 and 1404, after which it went back to Montferrat, I think it would be historically appropriate to be able to split ownership of these two cities instead of having both of them in one location. The current location of Monferrato also has plenty of population to support a split.
 
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If you dont mind me asking ,what are the historical reasons that some regions get more locations?? Is it to due to many countries like in hre or other reasons? Europe especially the gemany region and Italy as you mentioned seems to get more density in most paradox games. .Dont know how other regions will be in this game but the Asian regions like indian subcontinent have way less province density in paradox games while having higher population density as well.
I second this, it speaks to the Eurocentrism of the game more than anything and I was hoping it would change as the game became more refined and they did more research on these parts of the world. I can understand large and deserted regions having low province density (Siberia, the Steppes), but India certainly should have a high population density, and honestly China should as well. It's not like it's hard to find historical records of these regions either.

Personally, I think a development-centric approach would work best while also taking into account balance; a somewhat high province density would not only increase flavor, allow for more possibilities with minor nations, colonialism etc, but also add more flavor to military battles especially with how they're representing mountain passes in PC.
 
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Nice!
I can't help myself, so have a suggestion for the French-Italian passes, basically a fancier version of my map from the France thread.
View attachment 1145330
Everything mentioned in the French thread still applies, locations that I've added are Embrun to stop Sisteron from snaking up like crazy and Biella, which had its own commune, the statutes of which can be found online.
Won't you mind if I take inspiration from your map, for the one I wanna suggest on Tinto Maps #3 France? Since I still have to work on the one I began before posting it.
 
Thanks, this looks awesome!

Just a couple of notes regarding Piedmont. I see some reasons to keep the names of the locations as Monferrato and Canavese, but in the surrounding areas the locations mostly take the name of the main urban centers, which in this case would respectively be Chivasso and Ivrea.

Also, it's good to see that you are considering a bit more of nuance in the terrain types, Canavese includes at least a couple of major alpine valleys and it feels weird to see it represented as flat land (even though there is a fair bit of farmland around). As an additional detail, I would consider changing the raw good produced there with Iron, as there were active iron mines in the area dating back to even the pre-roman times, and those were active until early 1900s. Even today you find iron processing waste all over the place in the valleys surrounding the old mines.

May I also ask more details about the missing dynasty in Canavese? It that is going to be a paesant republic because of the Tuchini this is great! Even though technically the uprising started around 1386.

Finally, I think it is definitely worth representing the Waldesians in some way. They are a very distinctive part of the identity of Pinerolo and the surrounding area and had a very long history of being discrimminated and expelled by the local governments. I have seen the suggestion of incorporating them with the Lollards and if that is a more reasonable way to implement it - at least initially - I think it is worth doing so.
 
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Sure:

About the dependencies, is too early to showcase them, sorry about that; but if you could provide with the specific relations (Robert was lord of this signoria, overlord of that other polity, etc.), it would still be helpful for us.
I love these zoomed-in maps, but I'm not sure about colour of rivers. I'd assume you tried something less greyish/violet and more into blue? It didn't work?
 
Sardinia in Project Caesar

@Johan @Pavía

I will mostly give my suggestions according to what I’ve seen in this Tinto Maps thread, but I will also give some other information that, at least in my opinion, could be useful for better representing the island of Sardinia in Project Caesar. I’ve spent quite some time doing some research, mostly through what I found on internet, but I’ve also relied a lot on the pre-existing knowledge I had, since I'm quite passionate about the topic and I’m from Sardinia. However, I tried to include as many sources as I could in the bottom of the text.

Locations names are based on the map I made, I will use names in Sardinian

The judicates​

First, we can’t talk about medieval Sardinia without talking about the judicates, autochthonous states that existed in the island from the IX to the XV century.

Sardinia originally had four judicates, they all ended slightly before the start date (at the end of the XIII century) except for Arborea. For this reason, they should all be present as releasable nations, with the borders present in the image below.

They were called:

  • Judicate of Calari (EN) or Judicadu de Càlaris (SA), with its capital in Càlari (Cagliari)
  • Judicate of Torres (EN) or Judicadu de Torres (SA), with its capital in Thathari (Sassari)
  • Judicate of Arborea (EN) or Judicadu de Arbarea (SA), with its capital in Aristanis (Oristano)
  • Judicate of Gallura (EN) or Judicadu de Gaddura (SA), with its capital in Terranoa (Olbia)
(As usual in middle-ages, there were no fixed capitals, although, progressively, some centres became the privileged seats of power)

View attachment 1145201

The judicate was a unique form of state, directly derived from the previous Byzantine administration and so they weren’t feudal states. It had the same rank of a kingdom and so it didn’t recognise any power above them (they claimed the summa potestas).

Each judicate was ruled by a judike (or judikessa if female), that was the king (or to be more precise a “supreme magistrate”). He was elected by the Corona de Logu, a parliament composed by representatives of each Curadoria (administrative districts), clergymen, castellans and two representatives from the capital elected by the judike. The election criteria were based on a mixed elective-hereditary system following the direct male line and, only alternatively, the female line. The parliament also had the task of supervising the sovereign's actions.

The judike did not have possession over the land nor he was the repository of sovereignty since this was formally held by the Corona de Logu. He ruled on the basis of a pact with the people (the bannus-consensus) and if he violated it, he could have been ousted or, in cases of serious acts of tyranny and abuse, even legitimately executed, without this affecting the hereditary transmission of the title within the ruling dynasty (yes, this actually happened). He could not declare war, sign peace treaties or dispose of the Judicate assets without the permission of the Corona de Logu.

Each judicate also had a written legal code (comparable to a constitution): the Carta de Logu, a collection of penal, public, civil and land regulations. The Carta de Logu of the Judicate of Arborea, promulgated by the judikessa Eleanor of Arborea in 1392, is the most famous and important one as it was in force in all of Sardinia until it was superseded by the code of King Charles Felix in April 1827.

So, in short, the judicate can be considered as a proto-constitutional monarchy.

As I previously said, the only living judicate in 1337 was Arborea, the Kingdom of Sardinia was a feudal state and, while it had a relative autonomy from the Crown, it was organized similarly to other kingdoms in continental Europe (while some customs were kept, like the Carta de Logu or some of the previous administrative organization).

Proposals

  • Add the four judicates as releasables
  • Add Sardinian localized names (Judike for king, Corona de Logu for parliament, etc.)
  • Represent the Judicate of Arborea (and other releasable judicates) as a sort of constitutional monarchy, with a parliament and a “constitution” (I’m sure there will be laws that unlock parliaments and constitutions), and with its elective-hereditary succession system

Politics​

This was the political setup of Sardinia in 1337:

View attachment 1145202

We had four different nations still present, the Kingdom of Sardinia extended over the previous Pisan territory (old judicates of Calari and Gallura) plus the city of Thathari, the Judicate of Arborea instead had owned big chunks of land in the centre-west of the island and the Doria, a powerful Genoese family, ruled over some land where once there was the Judicate of Torres. The Malaspina still had little holdings in the north-west, but they were on the brink of their end.

  • Kingdom of Sardinia (and Corsica): its capital was in Calari (where the parliament was instituted in 1355). It was a feudal state, ruled in 1337 by the Catalan governor Ramon de Ribelles until 1418, when a viceroy was appointed. The Kingdom of Sardinia and Corsica (Regnum Sardiniae et Corsicae) was created in 1297 by pope Boniface VIII and its crown was conceded de jure to the king James II of Aragon; it was established de facto after the war won against Pisa and Genoa, in 1326. In 1479 it was renamed to just “Kingdom of Sardinia”, as Corsica was never taken from Genoa, despite many attempts.
  • Judicate of Arborea: its capital was in Aristanis. It had the previously discussed form of government and at the time was ruled by Pedru III de Bas-Serra (the latter is the dynasty name).
  • The Doria (Genoa): their “capital” was in Castelgenovese. They were an important family from Genoa that took control of some of the land where once there was the judicate of Torres. They ruled this land as a personal possession but for game purpose maybe it should be considered Genoa territory.
  • The Malaspina (Aragon): they were a powerful Italian family that gained control of some territory during the dissolution of the judicate of Torres. In 1337 they were left with few territories in the Lugudoro region (Torres), centred around the castle of Osilo. In 1343 they were annexed into the K. of Sardinia.
Representing the K. of Sardinia as a PU under the Crown of Aragon is not only historically accurate, but it would also represent better the events that has seen the kingdom basically transferred first to the Austrians and then to the Piedmontese in the XVIII century. The kingdom existed continuously until 1847 when, with the “Fusione Perfetta” (meaning “perfect fusion” in Italian) it was integrated into the continental states of Savoy and Piedmont, similarly to what the English Crown did in Ireland with the Act of Union in 1800.

Proposals

  • Make the Kingdom of Sardinia a PU under Aragon. It should be of Sardinian culture, but its “institutions” should be similar to the Crown of Aragon
  • Here you can either make the Doria be their own “nation” (as they technically were) or, for the sake of simplicity, portray their territories as directly owned by Genoa
  • The same goes for the Malaspina, they technically were vassals under the K. of Sardinia, but you can also portray them as a directly owned territory by the K. of Sardinia
View attachment 1145203
(locations names might be wrong)
  • Map edit: Pauli Gerrei and Seulu can be merged

Diplomacy​

The Kingdom of Sardinia was a in a PU under the Crown of Aragon. It had a claim over all of Sardinia and Corsica.

Aragon and Arborea were allies but the latter were already suspicious, as they felt threatened by the Aragonese expansion. This alliance was very unequal, in the eyes of the Aragonese it was a vassalage although Arborea was still de facto independent. For these reasons, Arborea will wage war against the K. of Sardinia in 1353, after less than 15 years since the start date.

The Doria were very hostile to the Kingdom of Sardinia, they fought in 1329 and they will fight again (winning this time) in 1347. In 1353 they allied with Arborea.

The Malaspina were vassals of the Aragonese king until 1343, when their territories were inherited by the latter and incorporated into the Kingdom of Sardinia.

Also, Sardinia was one of the areas that suffered the most from incursions of Barbary pirates and this problem lasted during the whole game timeframe, for this reason most coastal towns were abandoned in favour of more inland and defensible positions (this also led to a lot of areas becoming marshy and, for this reason, there was a consequent greater spread of malaria).

Proposals
  • Alliance between Arborea and K. of Sardinia/Crown of Aragon (depending on how PU will work), although their relations should start to deteriorate in the following years
  • The Doria (Genoa) should be very antagonistic against the Aragonese and they should start to close ties with Arborea in the following years
  • The K. of Sardinia should have a claim over the entirety of Sardinia and Corsica
  • The Doria (Genoa) should have a claim over Thathari
  • The Malaspina should have a claim over Bosa

Demography​

According to most sources I found, the island had between 300.000 inhabitants (to be fair, estimates go from 200.000 to 500.000).

The most important and populous cities were Thathari, Aristanis, Calari, Igresias, Castelgenovese and Bosa. Thathari was the most populous city, it counted at least 10.000 inhabitants. Also, Terranoa was considered as quasi civitas, almost a city (less important than the ones I’ve presented).

The population ratio between cities and countryside was between 1 to 3 and 1 to 5. However, during the XIV century, the new economic setup brought by the Aragonese, the many wars that were fought and the Black Death (which killed 1/3 to 1/2 of the total population) provoked a progressive abandonment of many villages (10/12% of them) and a consequent centralization of the population. During the end of the XIV century and the start of the XV 55/60% of rural villages were abandoned.

2/3 of the population were serfs.

Population growth was kept low by the malaria.

It had always been a problem since pre-Roman times, but in the late Middle Ages the problem became even worse. During the previous centuries the Barbary pirate’s incursions caused the abandonment of the coasts and this made them become marshy. This, together with the naturally humid climate and the already very sparse population, led to an even worse proliferation of malaria, in the coasts and in the plains.

Proposals

Just consider the info I provided, unfortunately I couldn’t find more detailed and specifical data for population numbers, I will update it in the case

Culture​

Sardinian was the main language in the island and it was the language of the elites.

The majority of the population was ethnically Sardinian.

There were communities of Tuscans especially in Igresias, but also in Calari, Orisei and Terranoa, and in general there were small communities in all the territory controlled by the K. of Sardinia, as it was almost all Pisan territory until some decades prior to 1337. Also, Bosa had a small community of Tuscans.

There were communities of Ligurians in Alighera, Castelgenovese. A small community also in Aristanis

There were communities of Catalans in Calari and Thathari. In Igresias they were the 5%.

In the end of the XIV century Calari and Alighera have seen a huge influx of Catalan immigrants (especially the latter, where they became the majority).

There were big communities of Corsicans in the north of Gallura, especially in Lungoni, Tempiu and Terranoa.

Also, Castelgenovese had a smaller community of Corsicans. Thathari and Nurra had probably some small communities too.

Their migration to Sardinia started, at least from what it is documented, in the XIV century and so they should’t be too many. The north of Gallura had the most but they weren’t the majority (at least in 1337).

There were consistent communities of Jews in the major cities until 1492, when the Spanish expelled them. In Calari there were 70 Jew families.

Proposals

  • Corsican people are too many, they weren’t a majority in any part of Sardinia. Their biggest presence was in Lungoni and Tempiu, followed by Terranoa. Also, Castelgenovese, Pasada, Thathari and Nurra should have a Corsican minority (but nothing more). I think this misconception come from the fact that nowadays in these areas the language is very similar to the Corsican language (which by the way, wasn't the same at the time). But, in the XIV Corsicans weren’t that many, Gallura and northern Lugudoro weren’t influenced by Corsican immigrants as they were some decades later. At the time the majority still spoke Sardinian (in the lugudorese variant)
  • Calari should have a majority of Sardinian, but with big minorities of Catalans and Tuscans
  • Igresias should have a huge minority of Tuscans (they founded the city and populated it); Catalans should be only the 5% of the population in the city (so not the whole location, although the city was fairly populous)
  • Aristanis should have a very small community of Ligurians (mostly merchants)
  • Bosa should have a small community of Tuscans
  • Castelgenovese and Alighera should have communities of Ligurians
  • Thatari should have a community of Catalans (probably the 10% of the city’s population)
  • Terranoa and Orisei should have Tuscan communities
  • Some very little numbers of Tuscan pops can be added in other Locations iside the provinces of Calari and Gallura
  • Calari, Thathari and Aristanis should have Jewish communities (in Calari they were 70 families)

Religion​

The religion in the XIV century was Catholic in all the island. Probably some Pagans were still present in the Barbagia region but there aren’t a lot of sources for this and I don’t think that is enough to have a Pagan minority.

Proposals

No change

Military​

Each judicate had a small standing army, composed of an elite force of cavalry (called the Bujakesos). The main armaments were the sword, chain mail, the shield, the helmet, and the birrudu, a weapon similar to the ancient verutum, the Roman javelin.

Proposals

Add a small standing army for the J. of Arborea, composed of an elite force of cavalry (called Bujakesos)

Production​

Economy relied largely on farming: wool, livestock, fur, wild game, and wine were produced.

The interior was rich of woods, it was a great source of lumber.

The curadories of Gippi and Trexenta and the land in Arborea had a rich wheat production. In general, the whole Campidano region had a rich production of cereals.

Calari was known for its salt production. Also Nurra had salt production.

Aristanis and Bosa had wine production.

Bosa had soap production.

Alighera was known for coral harvesting (but not processing).

Igrèsias had one of the most important silver production in Europe: it is estimated that between 5 to 10% of all the silver in Europe at the time came from here. However, it started its decline during the second half of the XIV century as its mines started depleting. Silver was present also in Sarrabus (Chirra) and Nurra.

Sulcis region had coal but it has been extracted only in recent times.

Proposals

  • Alighera: Wheat
  • Aristanis: Wine
  • Belchidda: Lumber
  • Bitzi: Lumber
  • Bosa: Wine
  • Calari: Salt
  • Chirra: Silver
  • Igresias: Silver
  • Nurra: Salt/Silver
  • Ollolai: Fur
  • Orisei: Marble
  • Pauli Gerrei: Lumber
  • Seddori: Wheat
  • Senobri: Wheat
  • Seulu: Lumber
  • Terraba: Wheat
  • Tortoli: Lumber
  • Other locations should be either Wool or Livestock (with at least one Wild Game or Fur in the interior locations)

Trade​

The port of Calari always was “the gate of Sardinia”, most important port in the island, spices, woolen cloth and luxury goods were imported.

A huge quantity of wheat, produced in the Campidano plain, was exported in Italy (this trade route existed since Roman times) especially in Tuscany. Also, salt was one of the most exported products.

As I already mentioned silver was the most profitable good exported (ancient Greeks used to call Sardinia as Argyróphleps nésos, the island of silver veins), at least until the beginning of the XV century.

Other exported goods were cheese, pasta, salted meat, fur, leather, wild game, wool, wine, livestock, lumber.

So, in summary: the most important goods were silver, wheat and salt; secondly, we have farming products (wool, fur, livestock) and lumber.

Proposals

  • Sardinia being in the Genoa market is 100% accurate, I don’t know why some interior locations are in the Naples market but I guess it is a bug
  • Sardinia should export a lot of silver (5% of the silver in Europe only from Igresias mines), salt and wheat; other goods previously mentioned were exported but weren’t as important

Locations and Provinces​

The principal administrative division in Sardinia was the Curadoria: I think this should be the basis for PC locations. This administrative system was definitively abandoned in the XV century, after the last judicate of Arborea was conquered, and it was replaced by the imposition of feudal institutions. However, the Curadorias are still the basis on which the “historical regions” of the island are shaped.
View attachment 1145205
I merged many curadorias with the purpose of having the right number of locations, with an area of more or less 500km2 (as most of other locations), while also taking into account historical borders (in 1337 but also previous borders).

I think I found the best compromise to portray all important centers, mantain the original shapes of the curadorias and make almost all historical borders possible (for both before and after 1337).

Regarding provinces, we can have four (Calari, Arborea, Lugudoro, Gallura), reflecting the four judicates, or five, if we want to have also Barbagia, a region with its own peculiarities and history that differed a lot from the rest of the island. I find the first cleaner and better to avoid bordergore but the second reflects better the history of the island. I will not dive too deep into it, I will just say that Barbagia is a region that, since Roman times (or even Carthaginian) was considered its own thing, separated from the rest of the island (Barbagia derives from the latin word “Barbaria”, land of the barbarians, opposed to “Romania”, Roman territory or, in this case, the rest of the island)

For informational purposes only, a map of Romania and Barbaria division (it lasted until VII century)

Proposals


Personally I prefer the division in the first picture as it is cleaner:

View attachment 1145206View attachment 1145208

Topography​

View attachment 1145213View attachment 1145214

Proposals
Sardinia is much more mountainous than this, here is what I think topography should look like:

View attachment 1145215
*Carali can be also Flatland


Vegetation


Proposals

In the XIV century Sardinia vegetation was much denser than todays (huge deforestation happened much later with the Piedmontese), here is what Sardinia should have looked like according to the sources I found (and some personal knowledge of the territory):
View attachment 1145217


Localization


Here you have some localization in Sardinia to give some flavour to the region (also, some of the current locations names didn’t even exist back then, like Carbonia and Olbia). I have put the names of the most important cities or the curadorias capitals.
If you find this useful I can expand this by a lot.

Judike:


singular​
plural​
male​
judikejudikes
female​
judikissajudikissas



Location names:


Sardinian
Italian
Catalan
AligheraAlgheroAlguer
ArdaraArdara
AristanisOristanoOristany
BelchiddaBerchidda
BitziBitti
BosaBosaBosa
CàlariCallari / Castel di CastroCàller / Castell de Càller
CasteddugenovesuCastelgenoveseCastellaragonès
ChirraQuirraQuirra
FordongianusFordongianusFordongianus
Igrèsias / Bidda de CresiaVilla di Chiesa / ChiesaEsgleyes / Vila d'Esgleyes
LaconiLaconiLaconi
LungoniLongosardoLongosard
Nuor/NugorNuoroNuoro
OllollaiOllolaiOllolai
OriseiOroseiOrusei
OsileOsiloOsilo
PasadaPasadaPasada
Pauli Gerrei
SenobrìSenorbìSenorbì
SeuluSeuloSeulo
TempiuTempioTemple
TerrabaTerralbaTerralba
TerranoaTerranovaTerranoa
ThathariSassariSàsser
TortolìTortolìTortolì
TrataliasTrataliasTratalias

Male names:


Sardinian
Italian
Catalan
English
AndriaAndreaAndreuAndrew
AntioguAntiocoAntiocAntiochus
AntoniAntonioAntoniAnthony
BaingiuGavinoGavíGavin
BaroreSalvatoreSalvadorSalvator
BarusoneBarisoneBerenguerBarisan
BasileBasilioBasiliBasil
CaraluCarloCarlesCharles
ComitaComitaComteComita
CostantineCostantinoConstantíConstantine
EnzuEnzoEnçHenry
FerdinanduFerdinandoFerranFerdinand
FideliFedericoFredericFrederick
FranziscuFrancescoFrancescFrancis
GiaguGiacomoJaumeJames
GunnareGonarioGonariGonarius
GugliermuGuglielmoGuillemWilliam
IsteveneStefanoEsteveStephen
IthoccorItocorroIocorItocorre
JuanneGiovanniJoanJohn
LenarduLeonardoLlenardLeonard
MarianeMarianoMarianMarianus
OrzocorOrzoccoOrçocOrzoccor
PedruPietroPerePeter
RamunduRaimondoRamonRaymond
SalusiSalusioSaluciSalusius
SergiuSergioSergiSergius
ThomasTommasoTomàsThomas
TorbenuTorbenoTorbenTorben
TrogodòriTorchitorioTorcitoriTorchitorius
TruiscuEnricoEnricHenry
UgoneUgoneHugHugh
ZusepeGiuseppeJosepJoseph



Female names:


Sardinian
Italian
Catalan
English
AdelasiaAdelasiaAdelasiaAdelisia
AgalbursaAgalbursaAgalbursaAgalbursa
AgnesaAgneseAgnèsAgnes
AnnicaAnnaAnnaAnne
BeneitaBenedettaBenetaBenedicte
BiataBeatriceBeatriuBeatrice
CadalinaCaterinaCaterinaKatherine
CostantzaCostanzaConstançaConstance
EleneElenaElenaHelen
ElianoraEleonoraElionorEleanor
FranziscaFrancescaFrancescaFrances
LughiaLuciaLlúciaLucy
MariaMariaMariaMary
ZuanniccaGiovanniccaJoanicaJohanna



*Names in Catalan language might be wrong*

Coats of arms​

The coats of arms of every nation present in 1337 Sardinia plus the old judicates:
View attachment 1145305

References


2023, Il tempo dei giudicati. La Sardegna medievale dal X al XV secolo d.C., Ilisso



https://www.wikipedia.org/



https://rime.cnr.it/index.php/rime/article/view/78/134



https://medievaleggiando.it/laffasc...le-l-isola-nel-medioevo-centrale-xi-xiii-sec/



https://www.alguer.it/info/algheroneltempo/ilnomedialghero.html



https://www.sardegnadigitallibrary.it/documenti/17_161_20080610112616.pdf



https://www.amezena.net/storia-di/breve-storia-dei-rapporti-fra-genova-e-la-sardegna/



https://books.google.it/books?hl=it&lr=&id=fw4XuEbKnQwC&oi=fnd&pg=PP11&dq=natural+resources+sardinia+middle+ages&ots=rYbVRgq6f2&sig=htEutUJxoY8KBO5lMzN-ia7rFHs&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=natural resources sardinia middle ages&f=false



https://books.google.it/books?hl=it&lr=&id=LjQBAAAAQAAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA3&dq=natural+resources+sardinia+middle+ages&ots=9UOcun-Jrv&sig=ER-n8eelPsLxJXffgcTPceCP-s0&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=natural resources sardinia middle ages&f=false



https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/11686433.pdf



http://www.rmoa.unina.it/2677/1/campus.pdf



https://www.sardegnadigitallibrary.it/detail/6499b87ce487374c8f8015b9



https://www.sardegnaforeste.it/noti...chive-un-altro-po-di-storia-dei-nostri-boschi



https://iris.uniss.it/retrieve/e1dc...5fe0ac7a3/Grassi_E_economia_a_sassari_dal.pdf



https://www.academia.edu/984526/_Sardegna_e_spazi_economici_nel_Medioevo_una_rilettura_problematica



https://www.academia.edu/102955618/Villaggi_centri_minori_e_città_nella_Sardegna_bassomedievale_Demografia_economia_società_XI_XV_secolo_



https://iris.unica.it/retrieve/7a6dcf79-ec48-4148-baa0-d98c4288a6be/Mameli_ArcheoArte_4.pdf



https://www.scuolafilosofica.com/682/la-malaria-nella-sardegna-medioevale



https://www.academia.edu/102955618/Villaggi_centri_minori_e_città_nella_Sardegna_bassomedievale_Demografia_economia_società_XI_XV_secolo_
Holy moly, what an amazing post.

I'd never heard about the Judicates before - but finding things like this is one of the great joys of the Paradox forums.

They also win the prize for the name of a historic nation that most sounds like it belongs in a fantasy novel:

Pedru III de Bas-Serra, Lord of the Judicate of Arborea, ruling from his capital in Aristanis. Currently allied with the elves of Lalileh Forest in their war against the Urg'mak Orcs.
 
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Holy moly, what an amazing post.

I'd never heard about the Judicates before - but finding things like this is one of the great joys of the Paradox forums.

They also win the prize for the name of a historic nation that most sounds like it belongs in a fantasy novel:

Pedru III de Bas-Serra, Lord of the Judicate of Arborea, ruling from his capital in Aristanis. Currently allied with the elves of Lalileh Forest in their war against the Urg'mak Orcs.
Well I've always thought that Sardinians and Dwarves share many similarities (starting from average height) XD
 
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@Pavía question
Apart from the rest of the locations in Calabria (which I find very fitting), why did you guys choose to make Laino Borgo a location? (I assume it's Laino since the name is barely readable)
It's never really been an important town (altough it is believed that Laino is actually the ancient Greek colony of Laus, but that's a whole other can of worms...)
Anyway I believe that Scalea would be a more suitable location to choose. During the Norman era, Scalea hosted significant mercantile and seafaring activity, and by the beginning of the 15th century, it had become one of the most important maritime centers on the Mediterranean Sea.
During the Anjou rule the local population revolted (circa year 1283-84) because of heavier taxes by the French and asked for help to Roger of Lauria, a Calabrian knight and admiral of the Aragonese navy who was born in Scalea (or Lauria, people aren't really sure). It was later retaken by the Anjou and given in fief to the Spinelli family until the Aragonese converted Scalea into state-owned land with significant tax relief that greatly facilitated commercial activity. During this "golden age" Scalea's population grew to over 5,000 inhabitants, however, this trend was eventually reversed by the Crusades and the bubonic plague, and the city's population was cut in half as Scaleans fled the city en masse for smaller towns in the countryside. To add insult to injury during 1555 the town was pillaged by Dragut, who was traveling from the also pillaged major town of Paola south of Scalea.
(For some reason I can't post links to wikipedia pages so I'll just post the names of the articles: Scalea, Roger of Lauria, Dragut)
 

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Canavese and Valli di Lanzo locations under Monferrato province and Vercelli under Novara kinda stinks, there should be an intermediate province with those three called like "Bassa Piemontese", "Piemonte Centrale" or "Serra Morenica"
 
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- Why some names are in English and some others are in Italian? Expecially the famous cities and their respective provinces are in english (milan, venice, rome, genoa etc).

- Suggestions on the provinces name:
Punente should be called "Ponente", in genoese is pronunced with the "U" but is written with the "O".
Basilicata should be called "Lucania" i think is more historical, still today's Basilicata inhabitants are called "Lucani"
Grosseto is mispelled (Grosetto)

- I think Lavagna location should be renamed "Chiavari" because was the "capital" of the Capitaneato di Chiavari (one of the Genoese Republic administrative divions), Chiavari was also made a province in the Kingdom of Sardinia, and overall i think was a more important city.

- It's seems there's a lot of Piedmontese culture in Genoa location, why?

- I don't think Rovegno is a good name for the location in that area, i think Ottone was more important, or Torriglia is even better (both Ottone and Torriglia were "Feudi imperiali", Rovegno wasnt)


 
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EDITED VERSION

First of all, I want to say thank you. @Pavía and @Johan you are both doing an amazing work with your team!

Now some feedback about Sicily (my homeland)

1. Use "Girgenti" Instead of "Agrigento"
I would rename "Agrigento", to "Girgenti". " The name "Girgenti" was used by the Normans after their conquest in 1089. It wasn't until the Fascist regime renamed the city "Agrigento" in 1927, following the Decree-Law n. 159, that the modern name was adopted. "Agrigento" is the Italian version of the ancient Greek name "Akragas." In a game set during the Middle Ages to the 1800s, it would be anachronistic to use the 20th-century name, making "Girgenti" the more accurate choice.

2. Consider switching Wine and Salt production in the east of the island
Salt was and it is still produced in Trapani with the famous salt pans of marsala. It's odd that the salt it is in Salemi/Alcamo region and not in Trapani. Wine is still a very important product of that region, but maybe it makes more sense to switch the salt of Salemi with wine and Trapani wine with salt, so the general composition and the game balance remain the same, but the flavour is more accurate.

3. Spelling of Siracusa and Cefalù
The correct spelling of "Siracuse" is "Siracusa", while it should be written "Cefalù" and not "Cefalu"

4. Rename the Kingdom to "Trinacria"
Although "Sicily" is widely known in English, "Trinacria" would be a more historically accurate name for the kingdom, especially for distinguishing it from the "other Sicily," aka Naples, after the 1302 Peace of Caltabellotta. "Trinacria" was the term used during this period and captures the island's unique identity distinct from mainland influences.

5. Independence of the Kingdom from Aragon
I don't know how autonomous the kingdom is from Aragon since, in the previous game, it was incorporated into that kingdom. Sicily should be depicted as an independent entity at the start of the game, reflecting its historical status before it became a viceroyalty under Aragon in 1416, with the coronation of Queen Bianca as the Queen of Navarra. At the start of the game's timeline, Federico III was king, and his death in the same year would transition the throne to his son, Pietro II. Although the Treaty of Avignon, signed by Federico IV in 1372 made Sicily a symbolic vassal of Naples, it remained effectively independent. This period, especially around the "Vespro Siciliano," was crucial for Sicilian identity and independence (it's still felt today after 700 years), making it important for the game to reflect this turbulent era accurately. All of these events could be displayed/scripted into the game, but I understand it's too much for the base version... maybe a DLC?

7. Adjust the Middle Province's Division
I would consider changing the shape of the middle province as follows for several reasons:

View attachment 1145333
Dividing the northern and southern coasts of Sicily, which are separated by significant mountain ranges, would reflect the true logistical and political challenges of controlling these areas. Even today, the infrastructure makes that part of the island divided and isolated from the north (it's like going to another region)... i can't imagine how divided and far it would have felt 700 years ago. I'm imagining an army on the south of the coast... i would be unrealistic to think it could span its control to the north... (the proof is that many military campaigns were fought on a south-north axis). For instance, separating Sciacca, Girgenti, and Caltanissetta from Palermo Corleone, Termini, and Cefalù would better represent the historical divisions over time. Similarly, separating Trapani/Mazzarafrom Palermo would mirror today's administrative organization and the historical divisions more closely. And this comes only at the cost of 1 province added (and with the benefit of less border gore).

This article (only the Italian version is good... sorry) explains Sicilian subdivisions, called "Vallo/Valli", characterizing the island from the Norman Period to 1812, when they were abolished to implement a more suitable and modern system of districts and provinces (the one displayed in the photos at the end of the post), that with some (or better a lot) of tweaks is the base of the one in place today.
Valli changed in shape and number over time (varying from 2 to 5, but for most of the time, 3). As far as I understand, you chose to use the Federico IV 1372 subdivision when this big province, called the "Vallo di Girgenti", was implemented. I would not use this for the reasons above (practicality) and for the reasons it was kinda short-lived (Spanish abolished it, going back to 3 valli and adding another layer of subdivision called "comarche). In fact, it never affected the Sicilian population as much as other organizations, as the state of conflict and the power given to local administration made it not so influential in that period. Almost 30 years later, the North cost was already detached from it.

Of course, we could even add more provinces, for example, separating Caltanissetta and Girgenti or Catania and Messina, but then, the province density could be too much, so I think the map proposed is a good compromise.

View attachment 1145335View attachment 1145336

I updated my suggestion, adding consideration on products, kings, and maps. I don't know if you can see it, so I'm pinging you this way. Sorry to bother @Pavía

Then, there is one question that is not about Sicily. Is there a situation also about Guelfi Bianchi and Guelfi Neri after they win over Ghibellini?
 
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1. Great to see the Corsican culture rapresented, it was a great missing one in my opinion, using "Sardinian" was not correct considering the specific character of the island and it's separate political destiny. This way finally is part of the culture group but still different.

2. I'm not totally convinced about seeing the Umbrian and the Neapolitan culture as those monolithic things in the center and south of Italy. But I understand the political destiny of those areas was not very interested by some kind of political balkanization based on cultural borders during the game timeframe.

3. I noticed that the Bishopric of Trent control two locations that are basically landlocked by Bozen\Bolzano, it's not that a problem?
 
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First off does anyone have a good idea on what the abbreviated tags are that I circled? Similarly can you make the Naples North Italian tags more purpleish?

As for actual feedback:

I am unsure of the history but I know that Sicily has a very lively tuna industry that has been in recent decline.

Rome shouldn’t not be a coastal location technically speaking. I believe the Seville method would fit or have Ostia (I believe that town would best fit) as a seperate location.

The Alpine culture seems to be out of place. I feel like Provençal should be expanded and largely expanded

I am unsure if this is a point of concern but the Genoa market should be more constrained by the Alps.
 

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@Pavía One thing that is wrong that I noticed also in past paradox games is the name "Grosetto" in tuscany, the correct name should be "Grosseto", from what I know "Grosetto" is not even the official english localization, it's just a common mispelling of the english speakers.
 
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