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Economy 2.0 Dev Diary #2

Welcome back to the second dev diary detailing the changes coming in the next patch. If you missed it, check out the first part here. Today we are covering a few important changes not directly related to the economy and we’ll go over what you can expect when loading up your existing cities.

Let’s start with Rent. Most likely you have run into complaints of “High Rent” in the game, so let’s talk about it. To complement the Land Value changes in patch 1.1.0f1 in March, we have tweaked how Rent works. First of all, we removed the virtual landlord so a building’s upkeep is now paid equally by all renters. Second, we changed the way rent is calculated. For those interested, the calculation looks like this:

Rent = (LandValue + (ZoneType * Building Level)) * LotSize * SpaceMultiplier

This of course affects the “High Rent” notifications you may have encountered, but we’ve tweaked those directly as well, so they are now based on the household’s income. That means that even if they currently don’t have enough money in their balance to pay rent, they won’t complain and will instead spend less money on resource consumption. Only when their income is too low to be able to pay rent will they complain about “High Rent” and look for cheaper housing or move out of the city.

Besides rent, households and companies need to pay for the building’s upkeep, which in turn affects the level of the building. When they pay the full upkeep fee, the building condition increases by a constant amount until the building levels up and the tenants start paying towards the next level. Similarly, if they cannot pay it, the building condition decreases by the same amount until it’s in such poor condition it collapses.

BUILDING UPGRADES UNLEASHED
From zoned buildings automatically leveling up to the City Service building upgrades you choose and place manually. While this update doesn’t directly relate to the Economy 2.0, it shares the same patch and deserves a little spotlight. Gone are the days when you had to bulldoze the entire building to remove, or just move, an upgrade. Now, all upgrades can be removed by selecting the building, finding the upgrade in the Selected Info Panel, and clicking the bin icon.

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Deactivate or delete Extensions or relocate Sub-buildings through the Selected Info Panel

For sub-buildings, there’s even more control. They can also be removed using the bulldozer, you can pick them up and move them, or turn them on and off as needed. Moving them is particularly handy now as they don’t have to be placed in connection to the main building. As long as they are within the predefined radius and have pedestrian and/or road access, they will work like before. Sub-buildings like the Elementary School Playground just need a pedestrian path connecting them to the rest of the city, while sub-buildings like the Bus Depot Extra Garage will need road access to function. We’re excited to see how you take advantage of this new freedom in your cities, so don’t hesitate to tag us on social media if you’re showing off screenshots.


EXISTING CITIES
Now you might wonder how all of this affects your existing cities, so let’s get the most obvious question out of the way first. Saves from before the economy rework still work, though we expect they will have a transition period as the simulation adapts to the changes. When it comes to modded saves, we can’t make any guarantees, but keep an eye out for updates or instructions from the modders. Mods that affect the simulation are likely to be affected by the update.

When you load up your city (and unpause) there are a few things you should keep in mind. With Government Subsidies removed and City Service upkeep increased, the cost of running your city just increased. If your city relies on ambulances, hearses, fire engines, police cars, and garbage trucks coming from Outside Connection, make sure to enable the Import City Services policy in the City Information panel, but don’t forget that your neighbors charge a fee to help you out. All this is expected to create a negative money trend, but depending on your city’s finances, your tax income might be enough to offset the new costs once the calculations catch up. If you’re struggling for money, don’t forget that you can increase taxes, reduce service budgets, or temporarily turn buildings off to save on their upkeep cost.

Demand adjusts quite quickly, so don’t be alarmed if some of your demand bars empty or fill up when you start playing. With the increase in industrial manufacturing space, your industry will be on a hiring spree that’s likely to drive up your residential demand - unless your city has workers already looking for a job. We recommend giving it some time though as companies (commercial, industrial, and office) readjust their production and employee numbers to be profitable, which we expect will overall lead to an increase in unemployment in your city.

With the new calculations for residential density demand, your citizens may also start looking for different types of housing or move around the city. Thankfully, the new calculations for rent and resource consumption should help them afford the type of housing they prefer, and we expect most (if not all) of your “High Rent” notifications will disappear after letting the simulation run for a while. If you keep seeing these or they start to come back, then make sure to check your unemployment and provide citizens with jobs so that they can pay their rent.

With time and some tweaks, your existing cities should adjust to the changes, so you can get back to realizing their full potential. And as always, don’t hesitate to ask for help if you encounter any situations you’re unsure of how to handle and report any bugs you might run into here.


WHAT’S NEXT?
Before we finish for today, we’d like to share our plans going forward. We will of course follow discussions and read feedback you share as you play with these changes. We’ve done extensive testing to get the changes as balanced as possible, but we know that some tweaking will likely still be necessary once you all start sharing your experiences.

We’ve already started work on the next major patch which we hope to have ready for you in Q3, and we want to give you a little sneak peek at what you can expect. As previously mentioned, we want to expand the service import to bring you more control. We’re also looking at what we can improve in the UI and how the game relays information to you, so you have everything you need to solve issues in the game. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. Are there any issues you’ve struggled to solve in your city? Any information you have been looking for but weren’t able to find?

Last, but definitely not least, the art team has been cooking up some new free buildings for you all. We appreciate each and every one of you for sticking with us and giving us a chance to make Cities: Skylines II what it can and should be. Your patience and support mean the world to us and we hope the new service buildings and vehicles can serve as a token of our appreciation. Thank you for being a part of our community!

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A sneak peek at some of the new service buildings and vehicles you can look forward to
 
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The problem I see here is that the buildings very often take the largest plot possible, resulting in long rows of identical houses,
The solution to this is simply the player not zoning the largest lot possible. If you want buildings to only be 3x3, then zone 3x3 lots. It's not that hard.
 
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I would love that feature back to choose the length and where the road goes and a highlight of which traffic (vehicles, people, hopefully bikes soon) are planning to take that section of road. That detail was so helpful for me.
The only way is to bring this feedback to CO's attention. They need to know that giving us more valuable information about traffic flows and showing all destination routes for all vehicles on that road segment is desperately needed.
 
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Please I dont need an economy re-work nor outside connections improvements. I need simulation speed improvements, I got a AMD Ryzen 5800h 8 core, 32gb RAM and the game runs at 0.1 - 0.6 speed with 150k population and it's less than 2 game years.

Unless this IS the performance you are bringing to consoles which all have 8 cores? Or this is the max tuning for performance already?
 
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hoping this 1.0 release out of early access will redeem the awful, disappointed, embarrassing launch :)
 
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Thank goodness this information was padded into two separate dev dairies, looks far less underwhelming that way. You may in fact trick some people into thinking these weren’t simple changes that should’ve been made weeks after release, and not nearly 8 months later :)
 
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@co_avanya

Thank you for the diary yet again, pretty nice stuff you got cooking there :)



As for this part I think showing actual routes (start to end) for each vehicle/pedestrian going through a section of road would be a good feature. It would help improving traffic as you'll be able to identify actual bottlenecks between areas more easy and also you could determine if mass transit in this area would be an option more easy.
THIS !!
 
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If only programming was that easy...:rolleyes:
You mean I can't just type in "make economy work" in notepad and it suddenly is all perfect? But that's how they do it in NCIS, why can't Colossal Order just do that!
 
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We’ve already started work on the next major patch which we hope to have ready for you in Q3, and we want to give you a little sneak peek at what you can expect. As previously mentioned, we want to expand the service import to bring you more control. We’re also looking at what we can improve in the UI and how the game relays information to you, so you have everything you need to solve issues in the game. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. Are there any issues you’ve struggled to solve in your city? Any information you have been looking for but weren’t able to find?
Thanks for all the information ! Can't wait to see it on my cities and a new one !

Thoughts on UI :
* I would like a smaller transport panel info view with lines and stops more visible (and the number of people waiting at stops)
* And maybe precise information of people by age/education on education panel
* On family view, on a household, I would like to see, via a different icon, if it's a dog or a child. And distinguish between dogs and people on the number of people on a household.

And I hope we'll see someday bikes, scooters, and even roller and skates
 
This all looks great. I'm especially excited about the expansion buildings being detached from the main building. Also the economy changes are most welcome. Have you fixed the issue where taxes go bonkers and income goes nuts? That bug is really annoying.
 
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Wow! I look forward to having sub-buildings be able to be added within a radius and that they will be able to be moved, deactivated and deleted.
Will this mean I can expand my tram depot without building another tram building? I know there isn't a sub building yet for trams but that would be a nice addition.
This is an awesome change. I really didn't like the way the original sub-building system forced a particular relationship between the base building and an extension, like the high school and its sports stadium, that imposed restrictions on the relationship between that area and its surrounds. This is so much more flexible and accommodating of how I would want to do things.
 
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About those new buildings, are you going to add elevated metro stations?

Also it would be great to have more flexibility with underground metro stations, now that we have more freedom with sub buildings. It would be great to freely add new platforms for more lines.
also underground ones should not take up zoneing space just need pathway access and the allow sidewalks to link to under ground without blocking zoning.
 
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The solution to this is simply the player not zoning the largest lot possible. If you want buildings to only be 3x3, then zone 3x3 lots. It's not that hard.
That will result in *a lot* of micromanagement. I'm giving them land, it's up to citizens to decide whether they want to fully utilize it or not.
 
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We’ve already started work on the next major patch which we hope to have ready for you in Q3, and we want to give you a little sneak peek at what you can expect. As previously mentioned, we want to expand the service import to bring you more control. We’re also looking at what we can improve in the UI and how the game relays information to you, so you have everything you need to solve issues in the game. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. Are there any issues you’ve struggled to solve in your city? Any information you have been looking for but weren’t able to find?
Graphs! In their current form, they are not very useful. They are meant to show us the consequences of our actions, for example, how much raising taxes influenced the population. The problem is that we can't directly compare graphs in such scenarios since we can't toggle on different categories. This should be fixed. Also it would be nice to have some player actions, such as important buildings placed, large infrastructure and zoning projects, or custom timestamps to be recorded and shown there.

What is also important in the graphs is the way to filter/customize some stats. For example, Age over time is quite useless graph, but Age against education, or happiness, or unemployment is much more useful.
 
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Next point would be the actions people are taking when rent is too high. You make them reduce their "normal life spendings" which to me looks strange. I think the typical behaviour would be to look for cheaper accomodation instead of reducing your lifestyle.

And then, I don't understand why tenants would have to pay for upkeep. That is covered by their rent in normal life. To me it looks like an unnecessary additional calculation step as now it has to be done several times per multi-party building. That seems to be overly complicated.
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Nobody likes moving, with the rare exception to prove the rule. Generally in my life, and most people I know, I've reduced my spending to afford rent/utilities. Moving is expensive. Deposit on the new place, first and last month rent, deposits for the utilities if you can't keep your current providers. These might be uniquely American issues, but I suspect they're not. At the same time I have looked for a better job so that I could afford the lifestyle I want. Moving to me is a last resort.

You're right tenants do pay for the upkeep with their rent. And if there's a major expense, new roof/refrigerator/water heater, that the landlord covers, you can expect an increase in your rent. Their new formula covers it a bit better. Before this update I expect they had another calculation for the "landlord" that was performed per building. So they're just moving it into one calculation per tenant. That should actually reduce the number of backend compute cycles.
 
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That will result in *a lot* of micromanagement. I'm giving them land, it's up to citizens to decide whether they want to fully utilize it or not.
Considering I built my last city to over 200k people doing this, it really doesn't require a lot of micromanagement. It's pretty much just set it and forget it once the construction site appears.
 
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I hope this is not a simplification ("streamlining...") process where mechanics are being removed because of players not understanding what's going on in their cities and because of hard to fix bugs. Things like removing virtual landlord sound like simplifying the underlying economy model. I would rather give more info to players, fix bugs and keep the complexity of the game instead of removing parameters and dimensions of simulation originally meant to be features.
 
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