Tinto Maps #3 France Feedback

[Pavía]

Great job!
1-Are some locations names still not fully localized right?
2-A the province names also going to be localized in some way(like Lower Poitou if the English conquer it instead of Bas-Poitou) or are they going to stay in French no matter what?
3- Can we get a map of the Areas?

1. Dynamically? Yes, that's WIP.
2. Maybe... But not in the near future, sorry.
3. Sure:

 

[Polesie Admiral]

Italy, actually. They need a little bit longer on Ruthenia/Poland/Baltics (which makes sense).

Here's to hoping for a Benevento exclave.

I want a Venezia island :'(

 

[Pavía]

Can we get some zoomed-in sections? France makes it difficult to read certain names ahah

Sure; let me know if after these, you still can't read any:

 

[MechanicalHeartbreak]

Looks good, I'm no expert on the period so I can't comment on accuracy but all of the work done seems very extensive. My one note would be that I think the Jura Mountains should be represented as some amount of impassible terrain. They form an important historical boundary between Switzerland and France, and ensure an Army could not just march due southeast from Paris straight to Lausanne or Bern. While the ridge and valley form of them might be hard to simulate precisely, I think that they're important enough for gameplay purposes to include even with an inexact shape.

 

[Pavía]

When could we expect Italy? Trying to prioritize before finishing my suggestion for it or doing Balkans as the priority region for me

Maybe by the end of next week or the start of the following one, but there are some WIP Middle Eastern minorities that we need to implement first.

 

[Pavía]

For some compound feedback:

Angoulême province should be Angoumois


People from there might correct me but IIRC Haut Artois is just Artois, while Bas Artois is Cambrésis.

Montfort-sur-Meu should just be Montfort, the "sur-Meu" was added during the revolution. Some other X-sur-Y names might be in the same situation but Montfort is the only one I am certain of.

Just changed the province names, thanks. Regarding Montfort, we have two in the game (Montfort-sur-Meu, and Montfort-l'Amaury), so it's probably better to keep their names, even if they were post-revolutionary, to avoid confusion.

 

[Pavía]

Very nice seeing this! Have you considered reducing the number of different cultures by merging some langues together or would you say there is sufficient historical reason to not merge them? (e.g. Gallo merged with Angevin, Poitevin with Saintogeanais, Alpine with Provençal). Linguistically, at least, these mergers could make sense.

Yes. The one that probably is more fringe is the division between Poitevin and Saintogeanais, but any possible merge didn't feel very consistent, either (E.g.: Would you name it Poitevin, Saintogeanais, or Poitevin-Saintogeanais?).

 

[Tissaia]

Maybe by the end of next week or the start of the following one, but there are some WIP Middle Eastern minorities that we need to implement first.

That's fine, I imagine most people here will be preoccupied with the Balkans for a week.

 

[Polesie Admiral]

btw when are we getting the terrain graphics mapmode like in eu4 and ck2 start screens?

 

[Pavía]

Are you sure about adding the Cathars? Their existence is still controversial and hotly debated among historians, so you might be walking into a historical minefield here.

I don't think their existence is controversial; there was a crusade to fight them, and we have inquisitorial records regarding their activity in the first quarter of the 14th century.

PS: I'm (or at least, I was before joining Paradox) a historian.

 

[Mingmung]

That's fine, I imagine most people here will be preoccupied with the Balkans for a week.

I think people are overstating the rabidness of (some) fans. Most discourse on the region has been relatively calm and civil. I just hope everyone can stay as constructive as always.

EDIT: I must also add that the Balkans already looked quite good (but there's definitely room for improvement here and there). It's the Carpathian region that looked the most 'WIP-ish'.

 

[matfer13]

1. Dynamically? Yes, that's WIP.
2. Maybe... But not in the near future, sorry.
3. Sure:
View attachment 1158303

Nice! A few more questions:
1-Why is the province of Bresse in Burgundy?
2- Shouldn't Roussilion also be considered part of France like Bayonne?
3-I know that it wasn't the case in 1337 but can you make it so that the border with Belgium is more similar to the one we have today by putting cities and provinces like Dunkirk and Lille in the area of Picardy? They were considered in the lowlands back in the day but became permanent part of France in the timescope of this game and are still part of it to this day!

 

[Immortal Impi]

I think people are overstating the rabidness of (some) fans. Most discourse on the region has been relatively calm and civil. I just hope everyone can stay as constructive as always.

The hottest debate has been the status of Transylvania. Besides that everything has been perfectly reasonable.

 

[Pavía]

From @Palando in this post.

"Secondly, the Landvogtei Hagenau (Unterelsass) shouldn't be owned by Austria, as they lost it in 1330 to Emperor Louis the Bavarian. Louis's chancellor Albert II of Hohenberg was the bailiff in 1337, and Louis handed it over to his relative, the Rhenish elector in 1341. Alternatively, they could be replaced with another tag like Lichtenberg or Fleckenstein."

He'd also like to say "Colmar was a free city that wasn't owned by the Habsburgs." Please consider the corrections.

Thanks


Now, I realised that you also added Mühlhausen, which would be another candidate for an independent tag. Colmar and Mühlhausen would be at least two out of the Decapolis (10), and maybe even Straßburg could be split into two Straßburgs - the bishopric and the free city.

The Lordship of Lichtenberg (ruled by the Lichtenbergs until 1480) and the Abbey Murbach could also be independent tags that would help representing the fractured Alsatian lands. But given the shape of the Murbach province, I think that Pavia and his team already plan to add this maybe later on, as it really nicely follows the contour of the territories owned by the immediate abbey.

The Habsburgs didn't really own anything sizeable in those areas at that time; only minor territories around Hohlandsberg and Albrechtstal (=Weilertal) (Hohkönigsburg was acquired only later during the reign of Emperor Maximilian I).

To be honest, there are a lot of adjustments to be made in the HRE lands, as it's a very tricky region. But we'll come to that in a Tinto Maps, in a few weeks.

 

[Conde de Montanelas]

Awesome job! You guys are magicians... love your dedication!

(PS: wine in Paris..?)

 

[Tissaia]

I think people are overstating the rabidness of (some) fans. Most discourse on the region has been relatively calm and civil. I just hope everyone can stay as constructive as always.

EDIT: I must also add that the Balkans already looked quite good (but there's definitely room for improvement here and there). It's the Carpathian region that looked the most 'WIP-ish'.

I'm not saying they will be rabid or uncivil. I just expect many people will want to chime in. Especially since it's not just the Balkans, also issues of Transylvania and Moldova, which already have several threads on this forum.

I would say discussion on the Polish Tinto Maps thread was nearly perfectly civil, it still run for 52 pages.

 

[Mingmung]

I'm not saying they will be rabid or uncivil. I just expect many people will want to chime in. Especially since it's not just the Balkans, also issues of Transylvania and Moldova, which already have several threads on this forum.

I would say discussion on the Polish Tinto Maps thread was nearly perfectly civil, it still run for 52 pages.

Aaah, I see. You're not wrong about that. I personally think the Polish region left a bit more to be desired than what we've currently seen from the Balkans (location/tag-wise, at least). But we'll see. Transylvanian culture and the frontier regions of Moldavia are indeed up for more debate.

 

[Giorgio<zxcv]

Provinces:
View attachment 1158104

The location of Pragelato (located in the centre of the Alps) should be made a part of the Turin province and not the Gresivaudan province as it is located on the italian side of the Alpine mountain range (and is today a part of Italy)

 

[Pavía]

Thanks @Pavía and all of Paradox Tinto for the hard work

Some feedback on Normandy


Locations :
- Can't read the name of the location between Cherbourg and Coutances (It's 'saint-sauveur-le-vicomte' right ?). Renaming it to 'Valognes' or 'Carentan' would probably help.
- I'm still in favor of renaming 'Arques' to 'Dieppe' as it was already the main town.
- Now that 'Fecamp' gets its own location, Tancarville should be renamed to 'Lillebonne' or 'Harfleur' as they're major towns (Tancarville really shouldn't be the name of the location).
- Saint-Sylvain... well, it's kinda weird, because the town of 'Falaise' seems to be inside the location of 'Saint-Sylvain' (they're both South-East of Caen), also Saint-Sylvain is really tiny (like more tiny than Tancarville). So, I suggest a little tweak here. 'Saint-Sylvain' should be renamed to 'Falaise', and 'Falaise' to 'Flers'. It should work without moving the locations, but moving the border between Flers and Falaise a little to the South-West, and same thing between Flers and Domfront would be perfect.

Province :
- Ebroicien feels kinda weird with 'Evreux' beiing that far from the center. 'Ouche' would probably be a more fitting name with 'L'Aigle' and 'Bernay' in the middle of this province.

Goods :
- I know, I advised for sand in 'Harcourt', but with the locations moving, the sandpits are now in the 'Pont-Audemer' location. Swapping sand and stone between these two should do the trick.

1. It's Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte, correct. I think that we may change it to Valognes, as it effectively become a more important town in Cotentin.
2. Looks like a good suggestion.
3. Renaming it to Harfleur also looks like a good suggestion.
4. We'll check this, as well.
5. Ouche doesn't look as convincing to me, TBH.
6. Just swapped the materials.

Thanks for your feedback on the feedback!

 

[Cuke]

1. It's Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte, correct. I think that we may change it to Valognes, as it effectively become a more important town in Cotentin.

Please do change it. DRY 8 letters are much better than WET 24 symbols. Dev talks are perfect opportunities to cut such fat.