Building a feedback to Brazil.

[Braziler]

Just pointing out that I posted about Goiás (to which point 1 - from the following list applies) yesterday. Today we are going to Mato Grosso and I have a lot of questions here.

1- Density, which I think is very low, but I'm afraid of increasing it due to the small population there at the end of the game.
2 - Whether the Pantanal should be impassable.
3 - Whether Lagunda and Dourados, which originally belonged to Parguay, although it was claimed long before, must be here or in Paraguay.
4 - Whether Corumbá, which is on the west side of the Paraguay River and de jure belonged to Bolivia, should be here or in Santa Cruz.
5 - Whether there should be an area to the north, between Mato Grosso and Pará (with an area the size of that applied here to Mato Grosso)

We arrived in Goias - which if we maintain the current configuration is at its greatest extent.
View attachment 1196671
To explain, my ideia is to drwa the capitanies of São Vicente, Rio de Janeiro, Espírito Santo, Ilhéus and Porto Seguro together, Bahia, maybe one at São Francisco comarca, Pernambuco, Rio Grande with Ceará maybe nambed after the last, Piauí, and Maranhão at north and Paranaguá, and Rio Grande at South. To the inner lands Goiaz, Mato Grosso, Pará, and Amazonas, maybe more one at Xingu.
As well I want to draw big locations at this part of Brazil because how much to inner less we know about how it look likes at old times and until today it's few inabited.
Does somebody have look a wastland watland? It would be good to Pantanal and a small part of Minas.

It is important to remember that the configuration of the localities neighboring these areas depends on them.

 

[RedMedal001]

Just pointing out that I posted about Goiás (to which point 1 - from the following list applies) yesterday. Today we are going to Mato Grosso and I have a lot of questions here.

1- Density, which I think is very low, but I'm afraid of increasing it due to the small population there at the end of the game.
2 - Whether the Pantanal should be impassable.
3 - Whether Lagunda and Dourados, which originally belonged to Parguay, although it was claimed long before, must be here or in Paraguay.
4 - Whether Corumbá, which is on the west side of the Paraguay River and de jure belonged to Bolivia, should be here or in Santa Cruz.
5 - Whether there should be an area to the north, between Mato Grosso and Pará (with an area the size of that applied here to Mato Grosso)

View attachment 1196994
It is important to remember that the configuration of the localities neighboring these areas depends on them.

My thoughts about your questions:
1) Density might be unavoidable, but we should flexible and wait till we see the Tinto Maps showing the region to get a better idea of how dense Brasil will be (for now, we could base ourselves in some other regions, like Russia or Africa)
2) In various Tinto Maps we see that impassable terrain has lots of habitable paths or, as in the case of the Sahara, has travel paths, the Pantanal can be either of those (the first one will affect density however)
3) It depends on how long it was controlled de facto by Paraguay, like, if it was for most of the time period and then changed hands in the last 5 years to Brasil, then, imo, it should belong to Paraguay (example: Ceará had control of part of the Piauí coast for a long time by the fact that borders at the time were complex and people often moved across without governamental control, and it only became part of Piauí after the time period. So, by this logic, it should be represented as part of Ceará. While Piauí in Victoria III should have control of that land.)
4) Same answer as 3
5) Maybe, the question of Density is a complex one because the indigenous people of the region, while not as dense as the coastal one, probably was a lot denser in this time period than in the centuries following colonization.

 

[Braziler]

Bom, algumas atualizações: Mato Grosso não será mais dono das terras que permaneceram sob controle paraguaio e boliviano até o fim do jogo e, portanto, poderá ser dono tranquilamente de suas terras amazônicas (que, no entanto, serão mostradas ao lado do Pará e do Amazonas). Por enquanto, vamos para o Nordeste, para o Ceará (que também incluirá RN e PB).

Nota: São 49 locais e não 44, como está escrito na imagem, porque adicionei lugares e não atualizei o número. Agora são 52 (João Câmara, Baturité e Fernando de Noronha).

 

[RedMedal001]

Bom, algumas atualizações: Mato Grosso não será mais dono das terras que permaneceram sob controle paraguaio e boliviano até o fim do jogo e, portanto, poderá ser dono tranquilamente de suas terras amazônicas (que, no entanto, serão mostradas ao lado do Pará e do Amazonas). Por enquanto, vamos para o Nordeste, para o Ceará (que também incluirá RN e PB).
View attachment 1202230
Nota: São 49 locais e não 44, como está escrito na imagem, porque adicionei lugares e não atualizei o número. Agora são 52 (João Câmara, Baturité e Fernando de Noronha).

Uma proposta interessante, você adicionou mais localidades que eu adicionei nos meus rascunhos de proposta.
Quanto ao Ceará, nome das localidades pode ser alterado (existe alguns registros de nomes antigos do período), alguns locais podem ser favorecidos (Caucaia é um município importante, mas aqui está incluso em Fortaleza.)

E por fim, a fronteira com o Piauí. O Ceará tinha o controle de parte do que hoje é costa piauiense. Independente de argumentos, se a proposta leva em conta controle, essa fronteira deve ser representada (visto que Crateús faz parte do Piauí, e ambos os territórios só seriam trocados décadas após o fim do jogo.)

 

[Braziler]

Uma proposta interessante, você adicionou mais localidades que eu adicionei nos meus rascunhos de proposta.
Quanto ao Ceará, nome das localidades pode ser alterado (existe alguns registros de nomes antigos do período), alguns locais podem ser favorecidos (Caucaia é um município importante, mas aqui está incluso em Fortaleza.)

E por fim, a fronteira com o Piauí. O Ceará tinha o controle de parte do que hoje é costa piauiense. Independente de argumentos, se a proposta leva em conta controle, essa fronteira deve ser representada (visto que Crateús faz parte do Piauí, e ambos os territórios só seriam trocados décadas após o fim do jogo.)

Caucaia is now a location and I,m resarching old names to every location. Regarding the regions, in fact, there is no control. I just tried to get closer to the hereditary captaincies of the colonial era, without fragmenting them too much. São Vicente corresponds to itself and Santo Amaro (drawn by the borders of São Paulo, which over the years became the de facto border compared to the de jure straight line) Rio de Janeiro was separated from the northern portion of São Vicente and absolved São Tomé , theoretically the borders went along straight lines to the west, but they were never able to actually control these areas, however, in order not to make Rio de Janeiro and Espírito Santo tiny regions compared to Minas Gerais, it was satisfactory to keep them that way. During the era of captaincies, neither Ceará, Rio Grande (do Norte) nor Paraíba (which was part of Itamaracá) were colonized in contrast to Pernambuco, which was. The borders of Ceará and Pernambuco are therefore stylistic decisions on how to group the areas based on similar colonial behaviors. Crateús is on the Piauí side of the watershed and is therefore part of the Maranhão region, although from the geographical point of visit it means having Luís Correria as part of Granja (in Ceará) or Paranaíba (in Piauí) from the visual point, if being from Ceará will leave the coast of Paranaíba small and difficult to identify. Nothing personal, political, or control, just similar coastal areas for the locations, although nothing is definitively decided (I add two locations to São Vicente (Limeira and São João da Boa Vista), having said that I'd not do it).

 

[Braziler]

Now, we're going to Maranhão (and Piauí). At west we have a slice o Amazon florest, and at east the Lençois as a westland, as well, there is a biger density at Maranhão core land. The names at map like in someone other region are provisional, to I don't need reseach names to locations that can be chang by your feedback (but, feedback about it is good too).

 

[FleetingRain]

What map did you use to determine that Amazon wasteland in Maranhão?

 

[Braziler]

What map did you use to determine that Amazon wasteland in Maranhão?

Is follow the dense obrophyllous forest area (second IBGE, like in this video), and there wasn't anyone city or way (like in this map, look that the location of Turiaçu was part of Pará) during the game timeline. Is true, by other side that it wouldn't make a wasteland by itself, but the people suport that Amazonia shoud be one, and if it'll be we need a criterion to draw it. However, some sugestion is wellcome.

 

[HeiliPM]

Just dropping in here to say that the work being done in this thread is simply AMAZING, and that I really hope Paradox is following it closely and taking it in!
@Braziler, any chance you would be able to share the full map with all the areas you've already worked on put together?

 

[Braziler]

Just dropping in here to say that the work being done in this thread is simply AMAZING, and that I really hope Paradox is following it closely and taking it in!
@Braziler, any chance you would be able to share the full map with all the areas you've already worked on put together?

Tanks. I hope too.

 

[FleetingRain]

Is follow the dense obrophyllous forest area (second IBGE, like in this video), and there wasn't anyone city or way (like in this map, look that the location of Turiaçu was part of Pará) during the game timeline. Is true, by other side that it wouldn't make a wasteland by itself, but the people suport that Amazonia shoud be one, and if it'll be we need a criterion to draw it. However, some sugestion is wellcome.

In my map I just kept the big Amazon wastelands restricted to Pará and Amazonas (and only if there weren't a settlement nearby in the time period), so my Maranhão has no big wastelands. OTOH that area you wastelanded really didn't have much/any presence until after the 1850s, so it could go either way.

 

[Braziler]

In my map I just kept the big Amazon wastelands restricted to Pará and Amazonas (and only if there weren't a settlement nearby in the time period), so my Maranhão has no big wastelands. OTOH that area you wastelanded really didn't have much/any presence until after the 1850s, so it could go either way.

I understand. But a half of Maranhão is amazonian florest and the area that I drawed is dense amazonian florest. The biggest part of it is not there today because was unflorested, but, after game end. If we unflorest all amzonian florest, don't caring about ecology, it'll be a normal land (a half of Pará is like it today). But it make no sense to majority of amazonian florest until 1930 years. Cut it only because it's not a northern state, is too arbitrary.

 

[FleetingRain]

I understand. But a half of Maranhão is amazonian florest and the area that I drawed is dense amazonian florest. The biggest part of it is not there today because was unflorested, but, after game end. If we unflorest all amzonian florest, don't caring about ecology, it'll be a normal land (a half of Pará is like it today). But it make no sense to majority of amazonian florest until 1930 years. Cut it only because it's not a northern state, is too arbitrary.

Honestly, I did it like that mostly for a lack of a proper forest density map (one that I could understand, anyway).

EDIT-- wait no, I can read this one. Yeah I see the vision, that area should probably be a wasteland together with a bit of Pará's east.

EDIT2-- Isn't this the exact kind of map we need btw

 

[Braziler]

Honestly, I did it like that mostly for a lack of a proper forest density map (one that I could understand, anyway).

EDIT-- wait no, I can read this one. Yeah I see the vision, that area should probably be a wasteland together with a bit of Pará's east.

EDIT2-- Isn't this the exact kind of map we need btw

I'm using this:
View attachment VegetaçãoEU5BR_Prancheta 1.png
I don't send vetorial file link's because I can't find it.
As well, I 'll use to climate this one:
View attachment ClimaEU5BR_Prancheta 1.png
Edit: Only explaining that EU5 on file mean "fifth edited unity of brazilian [map]" and not what people usualy said about the true name of PC. It's very true.

 

[Braziler]

Here is Pernambuco, which I almost forgot to post. Don't notice Bahia being drawn further south. To tell the truth, I'm not satisfied with the regions.

 

[FleetingRain]

Sergipe was part of Bahia, wasn't it? Otherwise, I think it's a fair division.

 

[Braziler]

Now I'm showing Bahia (now with Sergipe). Making the progression in location density took a fair bit of effort. Regarding the names, I read someone say that the developers said that they would not adopt the oldest name, but the name that lasted the longest. Could anyone confirm this? As well, I'm thinking about "breaking" the straight lines to the nearest geographic landmarks. What do you think?

 

[Braziler]

Following, we have Porto Seguro. As you can see, to the west, Diamatina, Gouveia and Guaiacuí left ES for here. it is a low-density region (until today).

Taking about density, there are 367 locations until now. It is certain that we will not exceed 600. It's 0.2 of Proper China density, so I'm happy because it's It is an acceptable proposal and not an over-dimensioning.

 

[Salemcolt]

This probably will not help , but reading Red Gold from John Hemming in the chapter The Potiguar, said something like different natives group taking refuge on Missions or looking protection from the preachers. Will be really cool if we could see something like that. Natives pops ''asking" to became the religion of the Coloniser for protection, and slowly assimilate this Pops as an accepted culture? .

 

[Braziler]

This probably will not help , but reading Red Gold from John Hemming in the chapter The Potiguar, said something like different natives group taking refuge on Missions or looking protection from the preachers. Will be really cool if we could see something like that. Natives pops ''asking" to became the religion of the Coloniser for protection, and slowly assimilate this Pops as an accepted culture? .

Yes, there was broad opposition between the clergy (who respected the natives, built reductions and preached in the native language) and the explorers (who persecuted the natives and engaged in military confrontations with them, imprisoning them as slaves). Some high points in this relationship can be seen in the expeditions of the Bandeirantes, in the Guarani Wars (Portuguese and Spanish against Guarani supported by priests), in the expulsion of the Jesuits of Brazil and the prohibition of Tupi (which was the lingua franca) by the Marquis of Pombal (who wanted to centralize the colony). The explorers who, in opposition to the church, declared themselves Catholics argued that the natives did not have a soul.