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I edited my response, but the points are largely the same.

Naming is definitely personal taste, but with that in mind, I disagree that spices is a good name, not when there are so many spice goods separated from it. For one, dates might be fruits botanically, but when listing fruits, a date would not be most people's first answer. Most of the spices excluded from "Spices" are the most well known ones.
  • The fruit good represents: All fruits other than dates, that's a simple exclusion.
  • Your spice good would not include: peppers, chili, saffron, cinnamon, cloves, vanilla, or nutmeg. All of the most important goods of the Spice trade. That's not the same situation.
Now under your grouping, spices are in essence what we've listed under the common spices good in this thread, plus - for some reason - ginger when it's much closer to what you've listed as "Cinnamon.". If you ignore that, the only real change from the proposal is that you've made "Aromatics," "Cinnamon."

Putting vanilla is in the cinnamon category just makes it confusing on the map and I'd dare say, wrong. It makes no sense to do it the way you have. Vanilla is not a Cinnamon and the name in no way describes that a location is producing vanilla. At least with a name like aromatics, you're making clear what the commonality between them is while making it clear that the good does not represent one spice.
I think we have very different perspectives on what we are eager to make abstract in the game. At this point I will see if I have time to make a full-blown proposal.

Again, do you have good sources I might start from?

N.B: people living around the persian gulf/red sea would think about dates first when thinking about fruits ;););););););)
 
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I think what we need at least is a differentation between spices that were significantly higher priced than the rest of the spices and/or that did influence nations actions in a big way. No clue how important spice trades from the Spice islands were in reality, but the name implies it was very important.
 
As an helpful hand, I will illegally show you 2 papers that might give a better idea, and they might be a starting point from which to start an analysis of the situation.

The first one (result.zip) suggests that west african pepper was in widespread use mainly until 1550, so focusing on it as a competition with asian pepper might be an overkill, compared to the actual relevance. On the other hand, chili peppers had much more of an impact. Indeed, since they ended up colonizing asia as well, keeping all of them under "peppers" with events leading to an increase in locations producing peppers all around the old world could represent the influx of cheaper capsaicin sources in the global market. It will probably lead to a reduction in the importance of peppers, while at the beginning they would be mainly present in india and sumatra. It also shows a comparative table representing the prices of a few spices, suggesting that cloves and nutmegs, while originating from the same general area, had a very high price relative to peppers. Differentiating them might be reasonable, but collapsing them together in a "cloves" or "maluku spices" can work as well.

The second one (ilovepdf.zip) shows some analysis of the situation of ginger trade, showing how the price was originally high, and then made much lower by new world cultivation. Given the economic similarity with peppers, wouldn't it be reasonable to group all of them together in "peppers"? It is an eurocentric point of view though, since ginger trade might have had a different behavior in asia.

More research is needed anyway, especially for cinnamon, vanilla and cardamom. Saffron might just be its own thing, the only repleacable I can think of is curcuma.
 

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The first one (result.zip) suggests that west african pepper was in widespread use mainly until 1550, so focusing on it as a competition with asian pepper might be an overkill, compared to the actual relevance.
That's a great source, and thank you for the effort there. I've been working in part off of that same paper - which is far more easily read here, or on the University of Cambridge site, if you have access to that. Unfortunately I've not had much time to work on this project over this last week, and probably won't have the time to put in the same effort for a few weeks more. Luckily, I do feel like this thread's contributors have mostly come to a really good system without much more to say, other than to wait and see what Paradox ends up doing with the spice trade.

Now, onto the claim itself. While you're correct about the paper suggesting that the trade decreased, you've neglected to mention the reason stated in the very same paper, namely that Portugal suppressed the trade to keep the good from endangering their East-Asian pepper trade:
A third type of pepper, known variably as African cubebs, West African pepper, Ashantee pepper, pimenta de rabo, Piper caudatum, piper salvatico and São Tomé pimento (Piper guineense or Piper clusii Cas. DC.), was explicitly prohibited in the face of the danger of product substitution.
The fact that they had to do this is further evidence that it can substitute East-Asian peppers and should be the same good and be allowed to compete with them, as the Portuguese were afraid might happen. I'm imagining that a situation might occur where Castile gets control of the West African trade and could compete with Portugal should it get control of the East-Asian trade - or vice-versa.

The paper differentiates those west african true peppers from Grains of Paradise (Because, botanically, it's not a pepper - that is a member of the Piper genus) and has a section discussing whether melegueta pepper should be considered to have been in competition with East Asian Peppers - and whether that's the cause of it's loss of trade with Europe. There's a lot of points for both sides here - though in my eyes it definitely leans toward there being competition between grains of paradise and east-asian peppers - and I recommend anyone considering these arguments read the whole paper, but the paper's author comes to this conclusion when discussing why the trade declined in the mid-sixteenth century:
I, by contrast, have attempted to demonstrate the consumptive overlap between black and malagueta `pepper' from contemporary descriptions of their respective tastes and culinary applications
(For reference, the "contrast" they refer to is another paper's author claiming that the trade declined due to the crown of Portugal mismanaging the trade.)

On the other hand, chili peppers had much more of an impact. Indeed, since they ended up colonizing asia as well, keeping all of them under "peppers" with events leading to an increase in locations producing peppers all around the old world could represent the influx of cheaper capsaicin sources in the global market. It will probably lead to a reduction in the importance of peppers, while at the beginning they would be mainly present in india and sumatra.
That's the reason why I've grouped them under the piquants. The substitution seems pretty widespread at the time (Though from the source, perhaps not by just putting chili in a meal when you would have used pepper, but rather mixing it with salt. I'm curious to try that and see if it is all that similar to my taste.)

It also shows a comparative table representing the prices of a few spices, suggesting that cloves and nutmegs, while originating from the same general area, had a very high price relative to peppers. Differentiating them might be reasonable, but collapsing them together in a "cloves" or "maluku spices" can work as well.
I agree that they should be differentiated from other spices. I'm not sure on the name Maluku spices, myself as they appear later in Madagascar and Zanzibar. I think Cloves is the best name for them. The fact that it also represents Nutmeg is, I think, a fair tradeoff considering that the only location nutmeg was grown, the Banda isles, is also known for its cloves. It also helps that it's a short name and much easier to read on a map while having no major downsides.

In fact, the paper explicitly mentions them together as separate:
It is also worth disaggregating some of the `fine spices’, particularly cloves and nutmeg, from the fortunes of the pepper trade.
(I'd totally missed the term "Fine spices" here before. But that might actually be the perfect name for it as a group, if we don't want to just call it cloves. It's way better than "Rare spices")
 
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POSSIBLE NAMEINCLUSIONSREGIONSCOMMENTS
Seasonings, Herbs, SpicesAromatic herbs, Coriander, Turmeric, Liquorice, Anice, Cumin, Sumac, Fenugreek, Sichuan pepper, Star aniceA bit everywhereThis represents local, cheap, and/or very common spices. I have some doubts about anice, if anybody has sources or information about it, please let me know.
Pungent Spices, Piquante Spices, PiquantesBlack pepper, Long pepper, Grains of paradise, Chili peppers, GingerMéxico, Caribbeans, Central America, Guyana, Malabar, Sumatra, South China Sea, Western Africa, PolynesiaI think ginger has a similar spread and price profile than peppers.
Aromatic Spices, Elegant Spices, AromaticsCinnamons, Cardamom, KorarimaSri lanka, South china, Northern Borneo, Nepal, Malabar, Ethiopia, Sudan, East African CoastCardamom and cinnamon come both from similar places, and both were very valuable spices. European monopoly focused on sri lankan cinnamon, but still. Korarima had a similar role and price, but in African cultures.
Fine Spices, Rare Spices, ClovesNutmeg, Mace, Clove, AllspiceMaluku islands, JamaicaI would add allspice to this category because it has a very limited geographical range; while less valuable, it became used in the whole world.
VanillaVanillaMéxico, Caribbeans, Central America, Ecuador, ColombiaI couldn't really merge it with any other category, but a possible solution is to include it within cocoa. It was used only with it until the 1700s anyway. It would lose some accuracy, but it might be acceptable in my opinion.
SaffronSaffronWestern Asia, Europe, maybe other placesThis I cannot merge it with anything else, I think it should stand by itself; by balancing the number and distribution of locations, it will be possible to control its spread and consequently price.

This is my final opinion, with comments about doubts and suggestions. The final number I suggest is 6, possibly 5 by excluding vanilla altogether, maybe 4 if "spices" are to be all either transformed in one of the other categories or medicaments (spices were first and foremost necessary medicine tools) depending on location and type of spice.
 
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But shouldn't already present game mechanics (rgo availability; technology - production efficiency/buildings; changes to base price - era/events/...; trade - distance and merchant capacity influencing market price, naval presence & range; local state traits boosting production) solve the problem of prices for spices? If those systems work as they should, then there is really no need to inflate number of goods is such a way....
 
POSSIBLE NAMEINCLUSIONSREGIONSCOMMENTS
Seasonings, Herbs, SpicesAromatic herbs, Coriander, Turmeric, Liquorice, Anice, Cumin, Sumac, Fenugreek, Sichuan pepper, Star aniceA bit everywhereThis represents local, cheap, and/or very common spices. I have some doubts about anice, if anybody has sources or information about it, please let me know.
Pungent Spices, Piquante Spices, PiquantesBlack pepper, Long pepper, Grains of paradise, Chili peppers, GingerMéxico, Caribbeans, Central America, Guyana, Malabar, Sumatra, South China Sea, Western Africa, PolynesiaI think ginger has a similar spread and price profile than peppers.
Aromatic Spices, Elegant Spices, AromaticsCinnamons, Cardamom, KorarimaSri lanka, South china, Northern Borneo, Nepal, Malabar, Ethiopia, Sudan, East African CoastCardamom and cinnamon come both from similar places, and both were very valuable spices. European monopoly focused on sri lankan cinnamon, but still. Korarima had a similar role and price, but in African cultures.
Fine Spices, Rare Spices, ClovesNutmeg, Mace, Clove, AllspiceMaluku islands, JamaicaI would add allspice to this category because it has a very limited geographical range; while less valuable, it became used in the whole world.
VanillaVanillaMéxico, Caribbeans, Central America, Ecuador, ColombiaI couldn't really merge it with any other category, but a possible solution is to include it within cocoa. It was used only with it until the 1700s anyway. It would lose some accuracy, but it might be acceptable in my opinion.
SaffronSaffronWestern Asia, Europe, maybe other placesThis I cannot merge it with anything else, I think it should stand by itself; by balancing the number and distribution of locations, it will be possible to control its spread and consequently price.

This is my final opinion, with comments about doubts and suggestions. The final number I suggest is 6, possibly 5 by excluding vanilla altogether, maybe 4 if "spices" are to be all either transformed in one of the other categories or medicaments (spices were first and foremost necessary medicine tools) depending on location and type of spice.
Inclusion of Korarima into Aromatics will provide European powers a way to not colonise Indonesia at all and instead do a scramble for Africa. I am not a fan of this possibility. Also it is even now not widespread around the world. I do not see it „having the same role“ to cinnamon or cardamom. Therefore I think it’s better to move it to general seasonings category.

And Sichuan and Japanese peppers should be pungent category
 
Inclusion of Korarima into Aromatics will provide European powers a way to not colonise Indonesia at all and instead do a scramble for Africa. I am not a fan of this possibility. Also it is even now not widespread around the world. I do not see it „having the same role“ to cinnamon or cardamom. Therefore I think it’s better to move it to general seasonings category.

And Sichuan and Japanese peppers should be pungent category
Assuming a couple of valuable locations in the middle of ethiopia, when it is already full of coffee, gold and incense, would change the balance is far fetched at best.

I found that Sichuan pepper was not widely traded through the silk road, hence I considered it as a local spice. Any source saying differently is welcome.

What is Japanese pepper?
 
But shouldn't already present game mechanics (rgo availability; technology - production efficiency/buildings; changes to base price - era/events/...; trade - distance and merchant capacity influencing market price, naval presence & range; local state traits boosting production) solve the problem of prices for spices? If those systems work as they should, then there is really no need to inflate number of goods is such a way....
If all the spices are one, a viable gameplay to dominate spice trading is to develop a few locations in turkye and northern Africa to overflow the markets in europe with them.
 
If all the spices are one, a viable gameplay to dominate spice trading is to develop a few locations in turkye and northern Africa to overflow the markets in europe with them.
There are very few spice rgo in Turkey and N. Africa. Furthermore, those N. African will hardly have any pops, so the production will be very low. You also need to consider the effect of vastly different climate and topography them and SE Asia.
 
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Assuming a couple of valuable locations in the middle of ethiopia, when it is already full of coffee, gold and incense, would change the balance is far fetched at best.

I found that Sichuan pepper was not widely traded through the silk road, hence I considered it as a local spice. Any source saying differently is welcome.

What is Japanese pepper?
Have you found that Korarima was widely traded though the world? Even by your standards you give for Sichuan pepper, it makes Korarima a local spice

Japanese pepper is a same genus as Sichuan pepper called Zanthoxylum.
 
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Have you found that Korarima was widely traded though the world? Even by your standards you give for Sichuan pepper, it makes Korarima a local spice
It was produced in the whole of eastern Africa, which is pretty much as big as India... mainly used in ethiopia and Eritrea though, that is true.

Japanese pepper is a same genus as Sichuan pepper called Zanthoxylum.
Good to know, more general spices for japan and korea.
 
It was produced in the whole of eastern Africa, which is pretty much as big as India... mainly used in ethiopia and Eritrea though, that is true.


Good to know, more general spices for japan and korea.
So, let me clear up. Korarima was sold in the whole of Eastern Africa which is pretty much as big as India. And that describes it as a similar role to spices that were traded in the entire world

However, a spice that was grown and traded in India, Nepal, Tibet, China, Korea, Japan is a local spice that does not qualify to be in other category

I see a bias here. The whole East Africa is as local as India and its spices like turmeric or as cumin and Arabic world. And definitely more local than Chinese peppers and its variants
 
So, let me clear up. Korarima was sold in the whole of Eastern Africa which is pretty much as big as India. And that describes it as a similar role to spices that were traded in the entire world

However, a spice that was grown and traded in India, Nepal, Tibet, China, Korea, Japan is a local spice that does not qualify to be in other category

I see a bias here. The whole East Africa is as local as India and its spices like turmeric or as cumin and Arabic world. And definitely more local than Chinese peppers and its variants
Definitely china and Japan are very similar, and together not larger than hungary or poland.

Joke aside, I decided to put sichuan peppers in the general category last minute, but they might be peppers as well.
 
There are very few spice rgo in Turkey and N. Africa. Furthermore, those N. African will hardly have any pops, so the production will be very low. You also need to consider the effect of vastly different climate and topography them and SE Asia.
Who knows, but you are missing the point: with no differentiation between saffron in spain and cloves in maluku islands, most probably the incentive of monopolizing spice trade in far East asia would be much weaker, forcing for events or unnecessary railwaying. We cannot know for sure, but it is a clear possibility.
 
Who knows, but you are missing the point: with no differentiation between saffron in spain and cloves in maluku islands, most probably the incentive of monopolizing spice trade in far East asia would be much weaker, forcing for events or unnecessary railwaying. We cannot know for sure, but it is a clear possibility.
Look at Tinto Maps N. Africa, Anatolia and Levant, count how many Spice RGO locations you find & the local population number; Then do the same for India and SE Asia.

And since there is always a finite number of goods and the prices are strongly affected by supply/demand .... there is just no way there won't be a significant differentiation between such a distance markets.
 
Look at Tinto Maps N. Africa, Anatolia and Levant, count how many Spice RGO locations you find & the local population number; Then do the same for India and SE Asia.

And since there is always a finite number of goods and the prices are strongly affected by supply/demand .... there is just no way there won't be a significant differentiation between such a distance markets.
you are saying "spices will be 90% produced in India anyway, so getting them for cheap means reaching India anyway".

which means that the price and availability for spices will be centered in southern India, and then increasing/decreasing both towards East and west. Which is not how it worked in reality.

Monopoly was sought-after because it was feasible to achieve: just control sri lanka or maluku.
 
Monopoly was sought-after because it was feasible to achieve: just control sri lanka or maluku.
And then you just teleport the cargo back to Europe?

And yeah, monopoly was easy to achieve precisely because spices are so strongly geographically concentrated in one part of the word that connected by the Indian ocean.
On the first page I bealive someone posted data how much different spices costed in Londson, Antwerp and whereever they were bought in SE Asia.