When is AoW4?

[Orinsul]

How much time has passed since AoW3 on athla?

First I thought, it was very soon after, characters who aren't Wizard-Kings, elves or otherwise are still around and looking the same ish age they were, like Laryssa, but some have backstories suggesting they've spent CENTURIES being tormented in the astral sea or lost since we last saw them, other's seem to imply they're ancestors also lived and struggled under this invasion of wizard-kings.
Werlac's blurb certainly implies this isn't just after we last saw him but that he's spent a long time travelling world to world, Arvik too. Even Laryssa's backstory has her whirling through the astral sea for who knows how long.

Is there an answer?
has it been weeks, years, days or centuries? or do we just not know
thanks

 

[Blanch Warren]

Without something preventing resettlement of the Valley of Wonders, i would suggest that the first scenario need only be on the order of decades, or at least not centuries. Of course, there may have beem some magical chaos in the area, but I'd still imagine that can be dealt with by someone ambitious, if it were centuries.

But Sundren is also familiar with the whole Shadrai situation, so it may not only have just happened a few years ago. She already has a settlement in the area herself, even if the Elves would not appear to have been bent on taking the area... unless you are also Elves, I suppose.

Without a lore provision, there is no time scale for the other scenarios. They don't take place on Athla, and we don't know when they would have arrived on their respective worlds.

 

[Goblin-Cookie]

Some of the characters became Godir, so it doesn't really matter how old they look any more.

If I vaguely recall, the Shad'rai, led by Lithyl Nightweaver (she isn't yet insect lady, that happened later) invaded Athla as soon as it was no longer cut off from the astral sea at the end of Eternal Lords. I think she is secretly working for Urrath, but the other Shad'rai don't know about that yet and probably recruited Werlac later on.

Age of Wonders IV begins with the final defeat of the last Shad'rai invader, which is Story Mission 1.

 

[Orinsul]

for those who are champions not wizard kings, and arent refered to as godir in the story event dialogue, like Laryssa, are we not supposed to interpret them as just, ordinary ruler-heroes until the end of the story mission when they ascend(get added to your pantheon) not as already being godir?

 

[Goblin-Cookie]

for those who are champions not wizard kings, and aren't refered to as godir in the story event dialogue, like Laryssa, are we not supposed to interpret them as just, ordinary ruler-heroes until the end of the story mission when they ascend(get added to your pantheon) not as already being godir?

They were in the astral sea and for all we know ageing isn't a thing in the astral sea.

 

[Kitschy]

Time in Astral Sea/Umbral Abyss is not the same as it comes to time in realms, so if someone mentioned that they were traveling for centuries it doesn't mean said centuries passed on Athla for example. If I am not mistaken Merlin mentioned this in his diaries.

I got an impression that from opening seals on Athla from AoW3 to first mission in AoW4 it was around 4 to 5 decades. Elderstone story somewhat gives enough ground for said speculation. Invasion happened when he was a kid and first mission is around the time he became a Godir and after people become one time becomes irrelevant when it comes to aging.

 

[Cybersbe]

Time in Astral Sea/Umbral Abyss is not the same as it comes to time in realms, so if someone mentioned that they were traveling for centuries it doesn't mean said centuries passed on Athla for example. If I am not mistaken Merlin mentioned this in his diaries.

I got an impression that from opening seals on Athla from AoW3 to first mission in AoW4 it was around 4 to 5 decades. Elderstone story somewhat gives enough ground for said speculation. Invasion happened when he was a kid and first mission is around the time he became a Godir and after people become one time becomes irrelevant when it comes to aging.

Worth noting that the Alfred we play as is described as middle-aged in one of the story realms where he shows up as an NPC.

 

[seperamos]

How much time has passed since AoW3 on athla?

First I thought, it was very soon after, characters who aren't Wizard-Kings, elves or otherwise are still around and looking the same ish age they were, like Laryssa, but some have backstories suggesting they've spent CENTURIES being tormented in the astral sea or lost since we last saw them, other's seem to imply they're ancestors also lived and struggled under this invasion of wizard-kings.
Werlac's blurb certainly implies this isn't just after we last saw him but that he's spent a long time travelling world to world, Arvik too. Even Laryssa's backstory has her whirling through the astral sea for who knows how long.

Is there an answer?
has it been weeks, years, days or centuries? or do we just not know
thanks

And that's why a more organized DLC campaign could be useful to new players unfamiliar with aow lore but loving the customization.

 

[Kitschy]

Worth noting that the Alfred we play as is described as middle-aged in one of the story realms where he shows up as an NPC.

I missed that. This gives a bit more credence that it is around 40 to 50 years passed from Aow 3 to AoW 4 start if middle aged is 40 to 65 years for a person.

And that's why a more organized DLC campaign could be useful to new players unfamiliar with aow lore but loving the customization.

What is "organized DLC campaign" ? (like adverts or something?)

 

[Orphalesion]

Yeah with Alfred being a child when he sees his parents being vaporized by the returning Wizard Kings and him being "middle aged" (I'd say 40-50) by the time you can play him in Story Realm 1 we can say that at least 40-50 years have passed since the opening of the portals and the return of the Wizard Kings.

However, we do not know how much time has passed between the portals being opened/the wizard kings returning and Alfred's parents being murdered by one of them
For all we know there were 200 years between those events in which the Wizard Kings caused a complete collapse of the Commonwealth and Alfred's family built a kingdom of their own from those ruins which tried to resist the Wizard Kings.

 

[seperamos]

I missed that. This gives a bit more credence that it is around 40 to 50 years passed from Aow 3 to AoW 4 start if middle aged is 40 to 65 years for a person.


What is "organized DLC campaign" ? (like adverts or something?)

Its an idea where we can pay for an actual structured single player campaign that either goes through each previous game in detail, for aow 4 players, or condensed the previous games into a long introductory campaign or story for aow4, using custom godir rulers and factions as background characters supporting the main characters in previous games.

 

[Kitschy]

Yeah with Alfred being a child when he sees his parents being vaporized by the returning Wizard Kings and him being "middle aged" (I'd say 40-50) by the time you can play him in Story Realm 1 we can say that at least 40-50 years have passed since the opening of the portals and the return of the Wizard Kings.

However, we do not know how much time has passed between the portals being opened/the wizard kings returning and Alfred's parents being murdered by one of them
For all we know there were 200 years between those events in which the Wizard Kings caused a complete collapse of the Commonwealth and Alfred's family built a kingdom of their own from those ruins which tried to resist the Wizard Kings.

Possible but imo unlikely that it was that much, here's a text from one of the missions.

The language used implies that it was relatively quick (or I should say it gave me an impression that it was relatively quick) with "when the final World Seal was opened" to "Elven Court and Commonwealth making an alliance" to "brave stand". If it was a stand for 200 years then it is hell of stand, the implication is it wasn't that protracted as 200 years otherwise the wording is weird.

So my understanding
Seals were opened -> Invasion happened and big players like Commonwealth/Court tried to put up a stand but got crushed -> Lithyl and her WKs gave a choice to others submit or get vaporized (Alfred's parents died around this time) -> Alfred became a prince on the run and was going around trying to unite Athla and make a break for it -> He becomes a Godir around the time of first AoW4 mission

Its an idea where we can pay for an actual structured single player campaign that either goes through each previous game in detail, for aow 4 players, or condensed the previous games into a long introductory campaign or story for aow4, using custom godir rulers and factions as background characters supporting the main characters in previous games.

Oh roger.
That would cool indeed, but then again I actually don't know how many people even care about the story. Usually people who are in to lore are minority within a minority be it AoW or any other game, so devs usually shy away from spending too much resources on this.

 

[Orinsul]

Possible but imo unlikely that it was that much, here's a text from one of the missions.
View attachment 1242066

The language used implies that it was relatively quick (or I should say it gave me an impression that it was relatively quick) with "when the final World Seal was opened" to "Elven Court and Commonwealth making an alliance" to "brave stand". If it was a stand for 200 years then it is hell of stand, the implication is it wasn't that protracted as 200 years otherwise the wording is weird.

this is the first mission of the seals campaign right? the one which the next slide or so tells of characters from that way, being trapped in the astral sea in torment, before landing on an unknown planet opened by the events of the first story campaign.
Which means we can't use it to date anything, it's what I mean in the first post about Laryssa's backstory, time isn't really experienced in the astral sea? she and eddie could've been there athousand years, or 10, or five seconds, and it couldn't felt like any amount of time too, and whether they'd age or not in there? coin flip.
it was long enough for some of the soldiers to get tormented into being avatars of rage and driven mad. That plot is about taking characters from a previous time into the current one, rather than proof of no time jump, it could be the best proof OF a time jump. If there wasn't a long time jump, if you wanted to include edward and laryssa, you'd just have them on Athla.

 

[Vladisi]

We can say with certainty that the time between the end of AoW3 and Athla's invasion by the Herald of Urrath Lithyl Nightweaver is within a lifespan of an orc, since Xorn the Disciplined ascended to Godirhood during it. Given that orcs in fantasy are generally not given long lifespans and I haven't seen anything to indicate AoW orcs are different, I'd say it's certainly not centuries.

 

[Kitschy]

this is the first mission of the seals campaign right? the one which the next slide or so tells of characters from that way, being trapped in the astral sea in torment, before landing on an unknown planet opened by the events of the first story campaign.
Which means we can't use it to date anything, it's what I mean in the first post about Laryssa's backstory, time isn't really experienced in the astral sea? she and eddie could've been there athousand years, or 10, or five seconds, and it couldn't felt like any amount of time too, and whether they'd age or not in there? coin flip.
it was long enough for some of the soldiers to get tormented into being avatars of rage and driven mad. That plot is about taking characters from a previous time into the current one, rather than proof of no time jump, it could be the best proof OF a time jump. If there wasn't a long time jump, if you wanted to include edward and laryssa, you'd just have them on Athla.

Yeap that's the one.
I am not sure I follow completely, why can't we date anything from that?
If I understood correctly you are saying we can not date things correctly 'cause Ed and L were cast to Astral Sea and time passes differently there.
I would argue we can definitely make I would say a relatively safe guess that from opening World Seals on Athla to Court/Commonwealth alliance to brave stand vs WKs was all before Ed/L were cast to the Astral Sea - meaning Astral Sea time shenanigans argument only applies afterwards.

So the question becomes how much time passed after Court/Commonwealth were crushed and WKs rule turning/vaporizing all who they encountered. And here is yeah I get that the argument can be made it was any amount of time, like WKs ruled for millennia or something and all the notable characters from AoW3 became Godir around the invasion time.
My counterargument is I find it strange from the storytelling perspective if vast amount of time have passed but it was completely omitted from the reader/player.

And here's the fun thing I noticed, that I didn't see before. Check this out

This is the first slide from the first mission. Here it says "The seal that had protected the world was shattered ... In the wake of this new genesis, the great empires of Third Age fell into decline, bringing on an era of re-exploration ..." but from the slide that was posted before it says "... when the final World Seal of Athla was opened ... Elven Court and Commonwealth (great empires of 3rd age basically) put aside their grievances and made a brave stand against the invading WKs"

So if both texts are taken at a face value then

• Seal that protected the world wasn't the final Seal, otherwise two text are contradicting each other
• Empires of 3rd Age were already in decline, even before the whole WK invasion
• There was brief era of exploration, before the final Seal of Athla was opened
• Opening the final Seal is when WK invasion happened

 

[STARSDragoon]

Yeap that's the one.
I am not sure I follow completely, why can't we date anything from that?
If I understood correctly you are saying we can not date things correctly 'cause Ed and L were cast to Astral Sea and time passes differently there.
I would argue we can definitely make I would say a relatively safe guess that from opening World Seals on Athla to Court/Commonwealth alliance to brave stand vs WKs was all before Ed/L were cast to the Astral Sea - meaning Astral Sea time shenanigans argument only applies afterwards.

So the question becomes how much time passed after Court/Commonwealth were crushed and WKs rule turning/vaporizing all who they encountered. And here is yeah I get that the argument can be made it was any amount of time, like WKs ruled for millennia or something and all the notable characters from AoW3 became Godir around the invasion time.
My counterargument is I find it strange from the storytelling perspective if vast amount of time have passed but it was completely omitted from the reader/player.

And here's the fun thing I noticed, that I didn't see before. Check this out
View attachment 1242874
This is the first slide from the first mission. Here it says "The seal that had protected the world was shattered ... In the wake of this new genesis, the great empires of Third Age fell into decline, bringing on an era of re-exploration ..." but from the slide that was posted before it says "... when the final World Seal of Athla was opened ... Elven Court and Commonwealth (great empires of 3rd age basically) put aside their grievances and made a brave stand against the invading WKs"

So if both texts are taken at a face value then

• Seal that protected the world wasn't the final Seal, otherwise two text are contradicting each other
• Empires of 3rd Age were already in decline, even before the whole WK invasion
• There was brief era of exploration, before the final Seal of Athla was opened
• Opening the final Seal is when WK invasion happened

I dont see how both have to contradict each other.

The final seal can be he (last one) protecting the World.

Wk invasion can be the reasons the empires fell into decline. Its a costly war with huge losses. In the aftermath many might try to seperate from the empires to protect themselves. Also, terraforming could topple economies.

And Re Exploration happened after that.

To add another point. In one of the story missions, sundren Talks about fighting lithyl and taking her mask. Either story 5 on grexolis or in the oasis. Not sure she mentions a time. But i thknk it was a longer conflict

 

[Kitschy]

I dont see how both have to contradict each other.

The final seal can be he (last one) protecting the World.

Possible but there is whole re-exploration era before the invasion. Also (and I understand I am digging way too much in to this) but should it be "after the final seal" and not "when the final seal" 'cause "when" implies "at the time of that happening" instead of there being a whole re-exploration era in between. That's why I found it contradictory and came to conclusion of seal that protected isn't the final seal.

Another thing, can you call something an era if it was most likely less than a decade?

Wk invasion can be the reasons the empires fell into decline. Its a costly war with huge losses. In the aftermath many might try to seperate from the empires to protect themselves. Also, terraforming could topple economies.

And Re Exploration happened after that.

I don't think invasion was the reason.
It was terraforming (some other factors probably helped) but it was before the war happened according to the last sentence in that slide. And the next slide starts with "Alas, the time for peaceful discovery was brief, for the ancient wizards ..." so this reinforces that re-exploration was before WKs returned meaning before invasion.

So my understanding empires were crippled before and then invasion/war finished the job by eliminating them outright.

To add another point. In one of the story missions, sundren Talks about fighting lithyl and taking her mask. Either story 5 on grexolis or in the oasis. Not sure she mentions a time. But i thknk it was a longer conflict

Yes that is give or take my understanding, the war lasted for quite sometime. You can even make an argument it didn't end, 'cause technically I believe there is no mention of it ending. From perspective of someone like Elderstone or Aric they can say "nah we are still at war with WKs on Athla" or something of that sort.

And yes I remember it was on Oasis mission.
This is from your screenshots and here she is talking about decades and also mentioning Alfred.

 

[STARSDragoon]

Possible but there is whole re-exploration era before the invasion. Also (and I understand I am digging way too much in to this) but should it be "after the final seal" and not "when the final seal" 'cause "when" implies "at the time of that happening" instead of there being a whole re-exploration era in between. That's why I found it contradictory and came to conclusion of seal that protected isn't the final seal.

Another thing, can you call something an era if it was most likely less than a decade?


I don't think invasion was the reason.
It was terraforming (some other factors probably helped) but it was before the war happened according to the last sentence in that slide. And the next slide starts with "Alas, the time for peaceful discovery was brief, for the ancient wizards ..." so this reinforces that re-exploration was before WKs returned meaning before invasion.
View attachment 1243514

So my understanding empires were crippled before and then invasion/war finished the job by eliminating them outright.


Yes that is give or take my understanding, the war lasted for quite sometime. You can even make an argument it didn't end, 'cause technically I believe there is no mention of it ending. From perspective of someone like Elderstone or Aric they can say "nah we are still at war with WKs on Athla" or something of that sort.

And yes I remember it was on Oasis mission.
This is from your screenshots and here she is talking about decades and also mentioning Alfred.

Thanks for the screen, now i dont have to search for it.

Honestly, i dont even know if era has a well defined amount of time needed. It can be quite freely used i think. Like "the era of stormbringers" could refer to the time when they were the most op, so between primal fury and eldritch realms.
I think an era of reexploration could just be a few years aswell. Adventurers exploring the new landscape and such.

I dont remember the canon ending of aow3s necro campaign, but i think it was also about wks invading.

If i had to make a timeline, my take probably would look like this:

Werlac opens seal
Magic fully returns. People can ascend, world terraforms. People have to find New homes. Decline of empires starts.
After the World opened up again, wks return to conquer (it makes sense magic comes before individuals, just like your new channel fills with water before ships arrive).
Huge war of the remaining parts of elven court and Commonwealth vs wizardkings. During this, Edward and sundren dissapear. Edward swallowed by the void in his juggernaut. Sundren to hunt down lithyl and other threats.

In the meantime, all the empires crumble. New countries and alliances get forged.

According to sundren, there were decades between 3 and start of 4. Considering that Alfred was a child and is now 40ish, i would say 30 to 50 years have passed since aow3. Then we start valley of wonders as Alfred. Though, its possible a century passed, if lithyl came late to the Party. Then lithyl would have entered athla way after the opening of the seal. Wait, sundren said lithyl Was one of the first.

 

[Goblin-Cookie]

Possible but imo unlikely that it was that much, here's a text from one of the missions.
View attachment 1242066

The language used implies that it was relatively quick (or I should say it gave me an impression that it was relatively quick) with "when the final World Seal was opened" to "Elven Court and Commonwealth making an alliance" to "brave stand". If it was a stand for 200 years then it is hell of stand, the implication is it wasn't that protracted as 200 years otherwise the wording is weird.

So my understanding
Seals were opened -> Invasion happened and big players like Commonwealth/Court tried to put up a stand but got crushed -> Lithyl and her WKs gave a choice to others submit or get vaporized (Alfred's parents died around this time) -> Alfred became a prince on the run and was going around trying to unite Athla and make a break for it -> He becomes a Godir around the time of first AoW4 mission

I'm pretty sure that Alfred became a Godir around the time of the initial story mission of Age of Wonder 4 because he is regarded as the unifier of Athla in the Oasis mission. In that mission you defeat Yaka and THEN you ascend, which suggests that Yaka is the last Godir standing of the invading Shad'rai alliance, because otherwise there would other 'unfinished business' to mop up that would keep you on Athla and you would not be able to just leave.

So the chronology goes something like this.

1. The final mission of Age of Wonders III Eternal Lords sees the World Gates opened by the Shadowborn.
2. The Shad'rai invade, led by Lithyl Nightweaver.
3. The Commonwealth and Elven Court both resist, but are weakened by a magical cataclysm unleased by the opening process itself and succumb to the invasion. Edward and Laryssa end up in the Astral Sea with their followers.
4. Sundren and Alfred lead the resistance to the Shad'rai.
5. One by one the Shad'rai are defeated and banished to the Astral Void.
6. Alfred rises to power over the humans of Athla and become regarded as the unifier of Athla.
7. The last Shadrai is defeated in the Valley of Wonders and the victor becomes a Godir.

A lot hinges on whether Alfred defeated Yaka or not in the Valley (in other words, whether he is the protagonist). If he doesn't, it is certainly possible that he became a Godir earlier, but 'unfinished business' suggests that he would not become a Godir until the last Shad'rai were defeated; though he could become a Godir and immediately return I suppose (depending on how it works).

In the into screen, Alfred appears to be a younger teenager, so something between 11-14. When he becomes a Godir, he is probably around 50-60, which suggests that the preliminary invasion to the game went on for around 50 years in total. This makes sense, because the Shad'rai cannot be defeated quickly if the Commonwealth and Elven Court are both destroyed, since they would have to have been defeated by a protracted 'guerilla' struggle rather than brute force.

 

[Orinsul]

Alfred CAN'T defeat Yaka
the champion who defeated Yaka, has just come to power, over a small tribes, who have recent fled into the valley of wonders and have no power outside of it.
That's not someone who has risen to power and unified humans. He must already be a Godir before your champion rises.
more than like Godir Alfred's war against the other WK is what the bigger war on the other side of the mountains you were fleeing is.