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Tinto Flavour #12 - 4th of April 2025 - Ilkhanate & Persia & Chagatai & Rise of Timur

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays in which we take a look at the flavour content of the super secret Project Caesar!

Today will be an interesting day since we will be taking a look at the content we have for the Persian/Iranian region, including the Ilkhanate IO, and also at the content related to the Rise of Timur situation, which includes the flavour for the Chagatai Khanate.

Let’s start a bit differently today by first looking at the Īlkhānān, the in-game flavour name of the most commonly used Ilkhanate IO:

As usual, take all UI, 2D and 3D Art as WIP.

Ilkhanate Tooltip.png
All IOs have a quick-access button, a feature we call control groups, with their own icon (which, in the case of unique IOs, is unique, as you may see). This is the overview tooltip of the Ilkhanate.

Ilkhanate Panel.png

This is the Ilkhanate IO panel, where you can see its status, members, and possible actions.

Ilkhanate Map.png

And this is the starting situation of the Ilkhanate, with the three main contenders (Jalayirids, Hüleguids, and Gurgan) in blue, and all its members in green color.

The reign and death of Abu Sa'id Bahadur Khan, last Ilkhan of the Borjigin dynasty, led to a power vacuum in the Ilkhanate, with several contenders trying to claim the title of Ilkhan for themselves while also trying to restore the old order over the lands ruled by the Ilkhans.

We’re portraying this convoluted political situation through different mechanics.

In order to be able to restore the Ilkhanate in its full glory, you need to be one of the Claimants to the Īlkhānān, a ‘Special Status’ (a feature available for all IOs; more about this next week, in the HRE TT):
Ilkhanate Claimants1.png

Ilkhanate Claimants2.png

Ilkhanate Special Status.png

This is a good example of our lovely nested tooltips. The yellow texts are hoverable features, while the blue texts are game concepts. I took the screenshots in the same sequence, but you could go even deeper, and hover over the International Organization game concept, for a further explanation.

There is a way to become a Claimant to the Īlkhānān, through IO action Claim the Īlkhānān:
Ilkhanate Claim the Ilkhanan.png

By being Claimant to the Īlkhānān, you will get access to this special CB, which can be used against other members of the Ilkhanate, making it easier and more straight-forward to conquer them:
Ilkhanate CB Unify Ilkhanate.png

All members of the Ilkhanate also have access to this other CB, that in case of victory, allows to remove the Claimant to the Īlkhānān to the status from the objective country:
Ilkhanate CB Refuse False Claimant.png

If you end up being the only Claimant to the Īlkhānān, you will automatically become its leader (this is something that we want to change, so it becomes an action in the Main Actions panel, to make it more clear for the player). By becoming Leader of the Īlkhānān, you may be able to unify the IO into a proper country once again:
Ilkhanan Form Ilkhanan1.png

Ilkhanate Oldschool.png

There’s a broken tooltip there, which has already been reported as a bug; the second condition is that there aren’t any countries with the status Claimant to the Īlkhānān. You also need to control 75% of the locations owned by all the members of Ilkhanate IO in order to form the country; the IO will disappear the moment you form it, too.

On a different track, ff you are a Persian member of the Ilkhanate, you also have the opportunity to fight your way towards unifying the region in a completely different way, with this CB:
Ilkhanate CB Shed the Shackles.png

The Ilkhanate may cease to exist if:
  1. All its members are conquered by a country not a member of the IO.
  2. There aren’t a Leader or Claimants of the Ilkhanate.

These are the main contenders for the Ilkhanate at the start of the game:
Country Selection Jalayirids.png

Country Selection Huleguids.png

Country Selection Gurgan.png

The Persian/Iranian countries that are part of the Ilkhanate have their own flavour content available:

The lands of Persia have always been situated in a privileged position, serving as a point of contact between the West and the East and on the path of many trade routes. These lands have thus also served as a hub for exchange of ideas, cultures, and faiths, with Zoroastrianism, Islam, Christianity, and even Buddhism permeating among its population.

The Iranian peoples are thus world people, and Persia has also been the birthplace of many great empires in the past, from the Achaemenids to the Sasanians. The recent Mongolian invasion and the establishment of the Īlkhānān have imposed on them foreign rule, but the Iranian peoples are ready to rise once again.

For instance, you have advances like these:
Advance Sasanian Heritage.png

Advance Silk Road.png

There are in total 21 different advances for the Persian countries.

There are also special buildings like the Ṣafawiyya Order Hall and the Ḡilmān Barracks, and special units like the Kızılbaş Skirmisher and the Ḡilmān.

This is the formable for Persia, and how it would look like:
Persia.png

Persia2.png

Let’s now take a look at one of the main contenders in Central Asia, the Chagatai Horde:

The great Činggis Khān managed to forge a great empire for all Mongolian peoples, bringing into his fold great swathes of land from Europe to China. All people learned to fear the sound of the Mongolian armies galloping and the might and power of the Great Khān.

As heirs of his legacy, the dream of bringing back the glory of the greatest Mongolian Horde is still alive.

Country Selection Chagatai.png

Mongolian countries (which also include countries involved in the Ilkhanate IO, such as the Jalayirids or the Hüleguids) have a ton of content available, both for being Steppe Hordes, and also specific Mongolian content. We aren’t going to reveal today most of it, since this is already a meaty Tinto Flavour, and we still have to take a look in the future to the Golden Horde, which also has unique content; but this is an overview of it:
Government Type Content.png

These are some of the most relevant features for the early game:
Advance Steppe Slave Raiding.png

Reform Legacy of Cinggis Khan.png

Advance Horse Lords.png

Unit Horse Archers.png

Unit A Urughs.png

Let’s now take a look at the content for the Situation The Rise of Timur. It can happen to you if you start the game with Chagatai or any of its subjects. But if you start the game with Barlas, one of these subjects, you will find this lovely baby in your court:
Bay Timur1.png

Baby Timur2.png

Trait Prodigy.png

Apparently this baby might be a Prodigy!

There are some events about the childhood and adolescence of Temür, and if he gets to the adult age, this event will trigger:
Rise of Temur.png

This event can fire initially not only for Barlas, but for Chagatai or any of its subjects, firing then a follow-up information event for all the rest, in which the player will get the chance to choose to change into the Timurids country if there were not initially playing the chosen country and the Timurids is AI. This gives a bit of variation on the starting situation of Timur while also ensuring that the player can always follow the Timurid path if they are playing in the area.

Temür has several traits, but this is the most important:
The Scourge from Central Asia.png

The chosen country will change, becoming the Timurid Horde:
Timurid Horde.png

And the Situation itself will appear:
Rise of Temur Panel.png

The counters for enemies kills and cities razed are there just for flavour, they don’t have any mechanical purpose.

The End Requirements make the situation likely to last for the entire life of Temür:
Rise of Temur End Requirements.png


These are the requirements to form Mongolia, BTW:
Form Mongolia.png

The first of the actions, Plan Invasion, has this effect:
Plan Invasion.png

Plan Invasion2.png

Rise of Temur CB.png

If you are able to unify a region, the second action, ‘Select Core Region’, will appear:
Rise of Timur Select Core Region.png

Rise of Temur Select Core Region2.png

Rise of Temur Select Core Region3.png

After having selected a Core Region, a third action will unlock:
Rise of Temur Reform into Monarchy.png

Which, in case of being selected, will make you a Settled Country, with the Monarchy Government type, and the Rank of Empire. This might potentially be the result:
Timurid Empire.png

A successful Timurid Empire, across Central Asia and Persia!

There is more content and events triggering during the situation, but these are its core features. From here, there’s also more flavour content for the Timurids, related to the historical events and situation that happened to the Empire. This is probably the most important event for them:
Event Integration Iranians.png

Event Integration Iranians2.png

Which unlocks this Major Reform:
Timurid Diwan.png

The Governorship is a unique mechanic of the Timurids, that allows them to have a unique type of subject, for members of the ruling dynasty. This may have its cons, as there might several claimants to the Timurid throne…

…And much more, but that’s all for today! We hope you enjoyed it! Next week will be intense, since on Monday we will have the Tinto Maps Feedback for the Horn of Africa, on Wednesday we will have the Tinto Talks for the Holy Roman Empire, and on Friday we will have the Tinto Flavour for Saxony! Cheers!
 
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Can I ask if the tooltips show up instantaneously on hover or if they need to be hovered over until the little circle fills up like in Vicky 3? Because I really prefer instantly, it takes ages when you don't know the game mechanics to constantly wait for the circle over every single button.
 
Oh lol, you have the Timur kill counter from MEIOU&Taxes! Amazing

(why all the empty black space in this screenshot though?)


Kill counter? Like... "kill 15 million people and you get an achievement"?
 
Will the Timurids have events in Anatolia with their invasion, especially involving the Ottomans or other Turkish Beyliks that may rise up? The Ottoman Interregnum they caused was quite a big deal.
And a certain 'lets park our White Elephants into your territory for you to feed' which can be a modifier too.
 
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Xinjiang is an anachronistic region name, should probably be changed to East Turkestan or Tarim Basin.

Inb4 the CCP puts me on a list

The name East Turkestan is from the 19th century, and as such, even more anachronistic than Xinjiang. The name Turkestan was itself very ambiguous, and used in the context of such different places as Khwarazm and Ferghana. Also the Tarim Basin is only the southern half of Xinjiang, below the Tianshan mountains. The other half is the Junggar Basin, below the Altai mountains.

Xinjiang is not a very accurate name, but it's more accurate than Dzungaria, Altishahr, Kashgaria, or Yettishar (which refer to portions but not the whole), and they are all more accurate than East Turkestan (the newest and most anachronistic).
 
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The name East Turkestan is from the 19th century, and as such, even more anachronistic than Xinjiang. The name Turkestan was itself very ambiguous, and used in the context of such different places as Khwarazm and Ferghana. Also the Tarim Basin is only the southern half of Xinjiang, below the Tianshan mountains. The other half is the Junggar Basin, below the Altai mountains.

Xinjiang is not a very accurate name, but it's more accurate than Dzungaria, Altishahr, Kashgaria, or Yettishar (which refer to portions but not the whole), and they are all more accurate than East Turkestan (the newest and most anachronistic).
Eh Xinjiang seems to date only from the late 1700s. Doesn't really seem appropriate to give it a Chinese name meaning "new frontier" when it was outside Chinese rule for most of the game's timeframe.

East Turkestan specifically might be from the 19th century, but it's not exactly a crazy new name. Turkestan is not really that vague imo, it means sedentary Turkic-speaking Central Asia, and Xinjiang was the eastern portion of it. Not some ivory tower thing, it's pretty intuitive.

If you don't like that, maybe Moghulia could work.
 
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Eh Xinjiang seems to date only from the late 1700s. Doesn't really seem appropriate to give it a Chinese name meaning "new frontier" when it was outside Chinese rule for most of the game's timeframe.

East Turkestan specifically might be from the 19th century, but it's not exactly a crazy new name. Turkestan is not really that vague imo, it means sedentary Turkic-speaking Central Asia, and Xinjiang was the eastern portion of it. Not some ivory tower thing, it's pretty intuitive.

If you don't like that, maybe Moghulia could work.

But it wasn't the eastern portion of a Turkic realm at all. The northern half (Dzungaria, though that is also anachronistic) was never Turkic in this time period or after; it was Mongol.

Moghulistan is a thing already, and it's not the same thing as Xinjiang.
 
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It doesn't make any sense that 9 of the 10 cities you need to form Mongolia are cities Genghis Khan never conquered. The Mongols didn't even conquer Guangzhou and Chongqing until after the empire broke up. This really needs to be changed.

1743827893148.png
 
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Can I ask if the tooltips show up instantaneously on hover or if they need to be hovered over until the little circle fills up like in Vicky 3? Because I really prefer instantly, it takes ages when you don't know the game mechanics to constantly wait for the circle over every single button.
That's a setting in Vicky 3. Probably they'll have the same options for this one too. You have it set to Timer Lock. For fluid tooltip use I would recommend either Mouse Tendency (locks when your mouse moves towards the tooltip) or Action Lock (locks when you press a button, IIRC the default is middle mouse).

Mouse Tendency is the most fluid but sometimes means the tooltip might lock when you don't want it to and you'll have to move your mouse away to unlock it, and very occasionally can be hard to lock if the game isn't recognizing it correctly. Action Lock is slightly less fluid and makes you hit the button a lot but gives total control and perfect accuracy. Timer Lock is just a waste of time.

1743829032097.png
 
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But it wasn't the eastern portion of a Turkic realm at all. The northern half (Dzungaria, though that is also anachronistic) was never Turkic in this time period or after; it was Mongol.

Moghulistan is a thing already, and it's not the same thing as Xinjiang.
If we go by the area map:
1743828588569.png
The region of Xinjiang is probably corresponding to Tarim + Dzungaria. That... mostly corresponds to the modern-day area of Xinjiang. If you're merging those two areas into one region, that's the only name you're gonna have that fits. Moghulistan doesn't work (Moghuls were the Tarim Basin and Zhetsyu on this map, not Dzungaria). Obviously Tarim and Dzungaria don't work.

If you look at the province map:
1743829035107.png
There's definitely alternative groupings into areas that let you construct a Moghulistan region. Move Naryn to Zhetysu and you can group together the Tarim Basin and Zhetysu as Moghulistan. You can then instead group up Dzungaria and the Mongol Great Lakes and maybe the Western Gobi into "Western Mongolia" or something.
 
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If we go by the area map:
View attachment 1276929The region of Xinjiang is probably corresponding to Tarim + Dzungaria. That... mostly corresponds to the modern-day area of Xinjiang. If you're merging those two areas into one region, that's the only name you're gonna have that fits. Moghulistan doesn't work (Moghuls were the Tarim Basin and Zhetsyu on this map, not Dzungaria). Obviously Tarim and Dzungaria don't work.

If you look at the province map:
View attachment 1276933There's definitely alternative groupings into areas that let you construct a Moghulistan region. Move Naryn to Zhetysu and you can group together the Tarim Basin and Zhetysu as Moghulistan. You can then instead group up Dzungaria and the Mongol Great Lakes and maybe the Western Gobi into "Western Mongolia" or something.

Yes, and thanks for providing the maps. That was exactly the point I was trying to make: if you want to name that specific region something (which the devs apparently do), then Xinjiang is the best option you have. It also has the benefit of precise cartographic borders (since it still exists today), which saves the devs some headache and is presumably why they chose it.
 
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Why do the Timurids embrace Dehwar as their primary culture when deciding to integrate with the Iranian people, shouldn't it be Persian?
I assume that's probably a quirk of the console-annexing they did to create that Timurid Empire for the sake of the screenshot?
 
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It seems Shed the shackles of Ilkhanate cb only available when Ilkhanate IO still active, so Persian player will actually want to keep the Ilkhanate alive and not defeat claimants in order to not lose -25% conquer cost, which doesnt make sense, therefore when a Persian Nation defeated a Ilkhanate claimant and dissolved the IO, they should temporarirly get a cb Unify Persia which still gives -25% conquer cost in Persia Region, so that keeping one Ilkhanate claimant alive wont have to be the strategy for Persian tags
 
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We discussed this, TBH. We ended up against making an inmortal Timur because even if it's a very important situation for the game, we also don't want to railroad it 100% of the games. So, it's very likely to happen, but not 100% guaranteed.

Having Timur guarenteed to not die early, but also adding requirement of Uniting Western Chagatai before getting insane Buffs like Ispil said would be a more gameplay friendly approach, as things wouldnt 100% railroad because of early situation of Timur, as he may not always achieve strong position, but we also wouldnt frustrated because key chracter died early in our campaign, and ended up losing the buffs lol
 
On both the Safavid and Timurid image all the small states from the Ilkhanate seem to be assimilated accept for the Kurdish principalities, will this be a system where the kurds always stay autonomous and act as buffer states for the different great powers in the regions as they did historically?
 
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Love it, however it would really be better to use English names like "Khan", "Timur", "Genghis Khan" and "Ilkhanate" rather than the transliterated "Khān", "Temür", "Činggis Khān" and "Īlkhānān". Just better for understanding. That's like calling the HRE Sacrum Imperium Romanum, or maybe Heiliges Römisches Reich? You choose which is less understandable.
 
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Love it, however it would really be better to use English names like "Khan", "Timur", "Genghis Khan" and "Ilkhanate" rather than the transliterated "Khān", "Temür", "Činggis Khān" and "Īlkhānān". Just better for understanding
Alternatively there could be a way to switch between endonyms and exonyms?
 
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I love Persia, it is one of my nicher pleasures in EU and I always make a campaign there ventually. I have never played the smaller hordes, although I did play as Ilkhanate once in a mod, but maybe I should give them a shot as well.

I just like the possibilities in this region - there have been so many Persias during the ages and despite getting conquered so many times, the people somehow managed to keep their cultural heritage. Usually the attackers got asimilated into the Persian culture even though they might have been stronger militarily.
And I want to see just how many different Persias one can have here - a legacy of Xerxes Persia, a smaller taller Persia, a sprawling cultural and trade juggernaut Persia, a Persian vassal to some horde from god knows where. I cannot wait.
 
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