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Tinto Talks #66 - 4th of June 2025

Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will discuss the mechanics of Islam. In EUV, it is considered a Religious Group, as Christianity or Buddhism:
Islam.png

As usual, please consider all UI, 2D, and 3D art WIP.

As you see, three Religions compose the group: Sunnism, Shiism, and Ibadism:
Sunnism.png

Shiism.png

Ibadism.png

They share similar features, and then inside them is where we make the religious differentiation:
Islam panel.png

The first mechanic is Schools, an old companion from EU4, but that has been reworked in EU5:
Religious School.png

Muslim countries start with a School, which gives some modifiers:
Hanafi.jpg

As you can see, each School has a different view of the other. This is important because you can invite Scholars of Schools that are available for your branch of Islam, and also don’t have a negative opinion of your chosen School.

Because, yes, the old EU4 Scholars are also present in EU5, but they’re now inside a new category, the ‘Religious Figures’, which gives some more flexibility on how to use them:
Religious Figure.jpg

Scholar.png

Scholars are now characters that can travel through the Islamic world and be invited to work for you:
Invite Scholar.png

This unlocks the possibility to change the Main School of your country to that of the Scholar:
Change Main School1.png

Change Main School2.png

Change Main School3.png

In total, we have this number of schools, with some schools being available to more than one religion:
  • 10 Sunni:
    • Ḥanafī
    • Ḥanbalī
    • Mālikī
    • Shāfi'ī
    • Ẓāhirī
    • Ash'arī
    • Māturīdī
    • Aṯarī
    • Mu'tazilī
    • Wahhābī
  • 11 Sufi - Both for Sunni and Shia, except 3:
    • Bektashi
    • Chishtī (only for Sunnism)
    • Ḵalwātī
    • Mevlevi
    • Naqshbandī (only for Sunnism)
    • Qādirī (only for Sunnism)
    • Ṣafavī
    • Shāḏilī
    • Suhrawardī
    • Īsāwī
    • Dīn-i Ilāhī
  • 8 Shia:
    • Ismā'īlī
    • Ja'farī
    • Zaydī
    • Imāmīya
    • Nizārī
    • Musta'lī
    • Alevism
    • 'Alawī
  • 1 Ibadi:
    • Ibadi - only for Ibadi
    • It also has access to all the Sunni and Shia schools, but not the Sufi ones

The main currency for the religion is Piety, again a returning concept from EU4. Piety can go from a value of -100 to +100 (representing Mysticism or Legalism respectively), giving scaling benefits to the country depending on the direction.
Piety.png

Piety will be modified towards one extreme or the other mainly through events, although there are also some ways of adding a passive monthly tendency towards one direction, including privileges and cabinet actions. Another important aspect to mention regarding piety is the fact that to be able to invite a Scholar belonging to any of the Sufi schools, the country must already be leaning towards Mysticism.

There are a couple of actions in which the country can spend its piety to gain some benefits. A country can exchange piety for either stability or manpower, and both actions require being at 50 piety towards either direction, and move the value 40 towards the center.
Manpower Action.png

Stability Action.png

There is also the option to perform a pilgrimage to one of the Holy Sites, as long as they are owned by the country, an ally, or someone with good relations. Performing a pilgrimage will give a small increase in piety, as well as sending the ruler on a holy journey.
Pilgrimage.png

Another important aspect to mention is the fact that Muslim countries have access to some unique laws and policies:
Iqta Law.png

Nikah Policy.png

Shariah Law Policy.png

Implementing the Sharī'ah Law will unlock an extra law, the Sharī'ah Jurisprudence, with policies dependent on the country’s main school.
Shariah Jurisprudence.png

Finally, there are a couple of unique buildings available for Islamic countries:
Madrassa.png

Sufi Loge.png

And that’s all for today! Tomorrow is Thursday, which means that we will publish a new ‘Behind the Scenes’ video, and on Friday, we will take a look at the Ottomans and the Rise of the Turks situation!

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 
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If true, that makes building a giant army that has more men than your nation has Pops possible (yet unlikely).
I believe it will be hard to accomplish as building regular units does reduce the MP pool and also the MP recovery rate.

I thought Pops were "taken" from Locations upon recruitment, but that must mean Soldiers are only used in Buildings then...?
Pops 'work' at buildings, these pops are often the soldier pop-type (there are some buildings where this could be other types like slave or tribe). So you could think that they are taken from the economy (as they are not making other things anymore) but they still exist in the building and location (and still have needs).

Pops _are_ taken from location when they are raised as levies at the point of raising. This may be part of the confustion
 
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Also I am kind of dissapointed that devs didn't reply much to things in this thread. I don't know if it is because they are busy, or needs to keep something secret so can't answer or some other reason but I would prefer them to engage more in threads like this where they get lots of negative feedback. Same goes for Tinto Maps Feedback for The Steppe. They didn't reply to criticisms there much too . I would prefer more open communication with negative feedbacks too
 
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I really dislike the gain manpower button.
Seems like it is a leftover from EU4, and does it spawn manpower from thin air or does it generate manpower from existing pops?
 
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There are a couple of actions in which the country can spend its piety to gain some benefits. A country can exchange piety for either stability or manpower, and both actions require being at 50 piety towards either direction, and move the value 40 towards the center.

Although I do not believe that either of these buttons is an issue by themselves I do believe they fail to be immersive at all. A simple rename would help leaps and bounds in this regard. Potentially something like Inspire the Masses and Preach Unity.
As they are they feel incredibly gamey.
 
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Or simply the bare minimum to make those kinds of claims, developpers have heavily relied on sources to build eu5's map, I don't see why they would have to rely on some supposed common sense for religious bonuses
You think you can find academic evidence for the notion that certain religions are inherently better at certain things??? These are game mechanics!! They're not real!
 
You think you can find academic evidence for the notion that certain religions are inherently better at certain things??? These are game mechanics!! They're not real!
Well maybe the notion that some religions are better than others at certain things ought to not be in the game if it's so hard to prove it
 
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Trading piety for manpower. It just breaks the immersion of eu5 and bringing back mana. I would request the paradox team to look into. Maybe piety boosts "x" stability per month (not flat 20 stability instantly) and reinforce rate increase (not flat manpower)
 
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I guess it doesn't consume
it is as long as you aren ot theocracy or have some reform that prevent it, there is no reason to talk about that in every dd about religion
I asked that two times in total! and reason was not getting answer on first one!!! you could just answer it politely if your knew the answer or not answering that's very simple to understand!
by the way this forum is for everyone and everyone is not supposed to write in the way you like they don't have to make you satisfied!
remember no one is in position to tell others what to do! you can just watch and control your acts!
 
  • Alevism
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Are these two really different schools?
Sorry for ignorance, I'm really curious since it may seem like different 'localisations'.
My wife is an Alevi and as far as I can tell it’s more of a syncretistic mix of shamanism and Islam. It’s much more Kurdish than Turkish or Arab. Whereas the Alawites is Syrian and coastal. So there’s very distinct cultural and ethnic differences between the two.
 
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Also I am kind of dissapointed that devs didn't reply much to things in this thread. I don't know if it is because they are busy, or needs to keep something secret so can't answer or some other reason but I would prefer them to engage more in threads like this where they get lots of negative feedback. Same goes for Tinto Maps Feedback for The Steppe. They didn't reply to criticisms there much too . I would prefer more open communication with negative feedbacks too
I also feel like it's been like this lately. They release TT reply to it for a few hours and that nothing even though there are genuinely good questions being asked, it's like if you haven't gotten here for two hours you lost your question asking privelege. I don't think it malace but if you think about it we've been getting daily TT and things are still very much WIP. They don't have a huge team I think they might have gotten a bit too excited with TT and now they can't keep up with feedback.
 
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I believe it will be hard to accomplish as building regular units does reduce the MP pool and also the MP recovery rate.

Well, if GH keeps their -0 MP units, it's still a possibility, all but an inevitability if they lose their land but keep their army.
It's not that I think is likely to happen, but the fact that it can happen is interesting.

Pops _are_ taken from location when they are raised as levies at the point of raising. This may be part of the confustion

That makes sense, yes.
 
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Unless already done so, Dhimmi status should only apply to Abrahamic and Dharmic religions, as they historically did.

Over 2.3 million Tengri tribal pops in the Golden Horde for example are now Dhimmi estate because of it not being so.

Also, tribal pops in general shouldn't be considered for Dhimmi, because they are by nature not part of any group.


There should be a way to make the give the non-muslim groups dhimmi status, because groups could gain that status depending on the needs of the state. Dharmic religions did historically, but the non-Muslims/ TAR groups in a place like Mali were not discriminated against as polytheists, and had status and positions similar to dhimmi, as they were the majority.
 
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I don't like the mysticism vs legalism dichotomy. Thia is straight from EU4 and I'm sure will correspond to piety related events where sufi orders destabalizing realms. This was not common historically, realms that had sufi orders did not necessarily destabilize, and many who did ended up creating very effective administrative realms with a legalistic bent. Sufis existed throughout the world of Muslims and simulating that as was done im EU4 would be a mistake. Legalism is not really contradictory to religious mysticism, if you're going to create this dichotomy please choose another term that better reflects the religion and rhe dynamics of that time. No one would call the Safavids a mysticist state, despite the pivotal role Sufi orders played. The opposite of legalism should be something else.
 
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