Will All Under Heaven be the End of Content for the Expanded Map?

[KaiserWilhelmII-]

All Under Heaven will be just under doubling the size of the map. I am concerned that the new half will receive no specific mechanics or flavour content after All Under Heaven.

Five expansions (Northern Lords, Fate of Iberia, Legacy of Persia, Roads to Power, and Khans of the Steppe) dedicate most or all of their content to areas in the original world map. While All Under Heaven is a massive expansion in terms of content, I don’t think it will be able to deliver the regional flavour that those five expansions have. Regardless of what people think of the specific mechanics of those expansions, I think this is a concern. We’ve already heard that a particular element of Imperial Chinese history, court life, will be underemphasized in All Under Heaven. If All Under Heaven is the only way to play the eastern half of the map, any content for that area becomes reliant on, and most likely restricted to, it. Will there be a framework for Paradox to return to the eastern half of the map if they see fit? Will modders be able to add content to the eastern half of the map without people needing All under Heaven to play their mods?

One thing that might alleviate this concern would be the actual map expansion, not the mechanics of it, being added to the base game, like how diseases were added to the base game. However, there are issues with this. People who don’t want All Under Heaven might feel like a potential performance hit is being forced on them. People who purchase(d) All Under Heaven might feel like they’re losing exclusivity over a big chunk of what they paid for (I personally don’t mind, but I can understand why others would).

I am wondering what people’s thoughts are on this.

Edit: "Just under doubling" is definitely not correct, and has been corrected!

 

[BoomKidneyShot]

All Under Heaven will be just under doubling the size of the map.

Um, it isn't doing that.

I am extremely sure that the base map will be expanded, and that at least some of the content will be part of the free update.

 

[CannaeCogitate]

Um, it isn't doing that.

View attachment 1316647

I am extremely sure that the base map will be expanded, and that at least some of the content will be part of the free update.

Holy wow! A map I vandalized popping back up! how gratifying

But seriously, yeah it's not anywhere near half, and it's important to keep in mind that while Japan/Korea/China/Viet/Etc are expected (or hoped) to be densely populated with counties, a lot of the expansion will be ocean.

 

[KaiserWilhelmII-]

Yes, looking at it now, it is not "just under half." Thank you for correcting me! I think my point still stands, although it might be a bit weaker.

 

[CannaeCogitate]

Yes, looking at it now, it is not "just under half." Thank you for correcting me! I think my point still stands, although it might be a bit weaker.

Dividing the map into lil pieces.....

Japan seems set to get it's own clothes, gov, etc, so I don't think they would need any further DLC
China *certainly* will not need any further DLC after this point, just not at all, though they may get touched by fundamental mechanical DLC
Korea is in a grey space, so they *might* get a DLC in the future depending on how much content they get here, but I wouldn't count on it?
SE Asia *probably* will also get it's own clothing set, and is certainly getting it's own government with the Devarajas, whether it was in a Dev Diary or in a Dev Comment I don't remember, but they hinted at unique mechanics for SE Asian Tribal Govs too!?

I think that Tibet and India, already on the map, will deserve their own DLC (though I have to wonder if they will be the same DLC or two separate ones?

 

[CannaeCogitate]

One thing that might alleviate this concern would be the actual map expansion, not the mechanics of it, being added to the base game, like how diseases were added to the base game.

Also a weensy note, it has been confirmed that the *Map Expansion* is confirmed to be free to everyone, though which content/mechanics/clothes/etc will also be free is an open question, I would not be surprised if everything over there was made tribal/feudal without the DLC and with *maybe* just a wildly ahistorical pan-asian clothing pack? (Undesirable but.... some of it's gotta go to folks who bought the thing?)

 

[KaiserWilhelmII-]

Also a weensy note, it has been confirmed that the *Map Expansion* is confirmed to be free to everyone, though which content/mechanics/clothes/etc will also be free is an open question, I would not be surprised if everything over there was made tribal/feudal without the DLC and with *maybe* just a wildly ahistorical pan-asian clothing pack? (Undesirable but.... some of it's gotta go to folks who bought the thing?)

Alright, that's good to know, thanks!

 

[CannaeCogitate]

I share your hope that any underdeveloped regions will get content in the future, but I think it's also worth noting that if Chapter IV is followed up with a Chapter V that *isn't* at least somewhat european/feudalism based certain players wouldn't like it.

 

[KaiserWilhelmII-]

Dividing the map into lil pieces.....

Japan seems set to get it's own clothes, gov, etc, so I don't think they would need any further DLC
China *certainly* will not need any further DLC after this point, just not at all, though they may get touched by fundamental mechanical DLC
Korea is in a grey space, so they *might* get a DLC in the future depending on how much content they get here, but I wouldn't count on it?
SE Asia *probably* will also get it's own clothing set, and is certainly getting it's own government with the Devarajas, whether it was in a Dev Diary or in a Dev Comment I don't remember, but they hinted at unique mechanics for SE Asian Tribal Govs too!?

I think that Tibet and India, already on the map, will deserve their own DLC (though I have to wonder if they will be the same DLC or two separate ones?

Korea, Manchuria, and SE Asia are the areas I'm wondering the most about. For example, I am unsure if any mechanic will represent the spread of Islam to Indonesia, which started in the centuries of CKIII's late game. There could be a mechanic where different religions, Islam, Confucism, and Christianity, spread into SE Asia and leaders fight to make their choice of religion dominant, or to protect the current religions, Buddhism and Hinduism, of the region. Something like that might be an interesting mechanic to have as one part of a SE Asian flavour pack.

 

[strattonthebard]

Assuming human civilization doesn't collapse or ck4 doesn't come out much sooner than anticipated I'm sure they'll get around to additional dlc for eastern areas sooner or later

 

[CannaeCogitate]

Assuming human civilization doesn't collapse or ck4 doesn't come out much sooner than anticipated I'm sure they'll get around to additional dlc for eastern areas sooner or later

Oooof I hope Ck4 is a *loooooooooong way off.

 

[Jia Xu]

All Under Heaven will be just under doubling the size of the map. I am concerned that the new half will receive no specific mechanics or flavour content after All Under Heaven.

Five expansions (Northern Lords, Fate of Iberia, Legacy of Persia, Roads to Power, and Khans of the Steppe) dedicate most or all of their content to areas in the original world map. While All Under Heaven is a massive expansion in terms of content, I don’t think it will be able to deliver the regional flavour that those five expansions have. Regardless of what people think of the specific mechanics of those expansions, I think this is a concern. We’ve already heard that a particular element of Imperial Chinese history, court life, will be underemphasized in All Under Heaven. If All Under Heaven is the only way to play the eastern half of the map, any content for that area becomes reliant on, and most likely restricted to, it. Will there be a framework for Paradox to return to the eastern half of the map if they see fit? Will modders be able to add content to the eastern half of the map without people needing All under Heaven to play their mods?

One thing that might alleviate this concern would be the actual map expansion, not the mechanics of it, being added to the base game, like how diseases were added to the base game. However, there are issues with this. People who don’t want All Under Heaven might feel like a potential performance hit is being forced on them. People who purchase(d) All Under Heaven might feel like they’re losing exclusivity over a big chunk of what they paid for (I personally don’t mind, but I can understand why others would).

I am wondering what people’s thoughts are on this.

Edit: "Just under doubling" is definitely not correct, and has been corrected!

The map is increasing by about 20%.

AUH is delivering more complex regional content than every previous expansion, combined. lol

Adding ANYTHING to the game reduces performance. The biggest performance hit since launch was Administrative Government for Byzantium.

 

[DiabloDeVille]

Assuming human civilization doesn't collapse or ck4 doesn't come out much sooner than anticipated I'm sure they'll get around to additional dlc for eastern areas sooner or later

Given we still have launch mechanics for religion sans the rite tenant, I'm not surprised they think that the phillipines will be stale

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

I am unsure if any mechanic will represent the spread of Islam to Indonesia,

IIRC since that wasn't done by war, we might have to wait until the trade DLC.
Or just be an adventurer and do it yourself.

 

[CannaeCogitate]

IIRC since that wasn't done by war, we might have to wait until the trade DLC.
Or just be an adventurer and do it yourself.

I *feel like* Ghana has a similar mechanic currently actually, after a specific date the *ruler* always seems to top-down convert to Islam? I don't think it would be hard to have an event fire around a certain date that asks rulers in the area if they'd like to convert? and have AI seriously consider the option?

 

[DiabloDeVille]

I *feel like* Ghana has a similar mechanic currently actually, after a specific date the *ruler* always seems to top-down convert to Islam? I don't think it would be hard to have an event fire around a certain date that asks rulers in the area if they'd like to convert? and have AI seriously consider the option?

Theyre an unreformed faith bordering muslims, eventually theyll convert

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

I don't think it would be hard to have an event fire around a certain date that asks rulers in the area if they'd like to convert? and have AI seriously consider the option?

Arabia and Islamic Greater Persia is still quite a ways off from Indonesia. The less teleporting in CK3, the better IMO, so no population movements (or abstractions thereof, such as trade) should mean no religious change for Indonesia.
Paradox likes to make what happened in history always happen, which is something I don't like in overdoses, but apparently they are responding to customers like you.

 

[KaiserWilhelmII-]

If the spread of Islam to Indonesia is represented I hope it’s (A) organic, with a focus on the why of the spread less than the actual religion itself (if the Arab world is Christian by the 13th century, the religion which spreads should probably be Christianity) and (B) slow, gradual, and the start of process which is perfectly fine not reaching its end by the game’s end

 

[AHumpierRogue]

Honestly the only concerns for content I'd have would be maritime Southeast Asia and the Jurchen tribes. China, Japan, Vietnam, Korea etc. Seem likely to be pretty set, I doubt they'd have a specific Korea or Vietnam dlc.

A Tibet DLC would be good and fun but that would technically the be old map. Still I think it'd be relevant.

I could also see event packs and the content creator packs being made for the east, like I doubt Korea or Vietnam will have its own assets but I could see them getting attire packs like the North African and Sami ones. Or they could do event packs specifically focusing on China or other east Asian countries. Just wouldnt be major content dlcs.

Only big thing I could see is if they decide to do a "Eunuchs and Concubines" DLC focusing on mechanics and flavor for Harems, I could see it having content for all parts of the world that had a sort "Organized Harem" esque system, which could get more content for China.

 

[CannaeCogitate]

Arabia and Islamic Greater Persia is still quite a ways off from Indonesia. The less teleporting in CK3, the better IMO, so no population movements (or abstractions thereof, such as trade) should mean no religious change for Indonesia.
Paradox likes to make what happened in history always happen, which is something I don't like in overdoses, but apparently they are responding to customers like you.

Well that was unnecessarily.... that.

You can have courtiers show up from far flung regions of the world, I've had catholics show up while playing in Burma before? people *do* move about, it's not that huge an abstraction to have an event fire where Muslim merchants or the like find their way to your court, the maritime silk road exists conceptually, even if it doesn't exist mechanically?