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OP is right. They are breaking my immersion because I’m losing the feeling of playing a GSG and feel instead as if I’m in some RPG or even Sims where my first and foremost concern should be dressing up the character and redecorating the throne room.
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Can say I aree on all those points, Vic 3 still has some (design) issues for me personally that luckily Ceu5ar seems not to have.
Personally I've had a good time modding character clothing in Vic3, making uniforms and such, and it really adds a lot to the game imo to be able to actually see the Emperor of Overtheristan.
I do think that for modders it would be nice to have a simple system to use 2d portraits, without needing to do UI modding and all kinds of shenanigans. If I'm not mistaken it should even be relatively feasible to recreate a CK2-esque paper doll portrait system using the existing clothing system to stack images on top of each other instead, which can end up looking very charming. I will still at least try and do what I can with 3d models, cause the dna system is just very flexible.
To touch on the issue(s) with 3d portraits again, I do think that the main issue is just how front and center they are in Vic3 especially, where it is just not nearly as justified as in CK3, and it just makes any issues with the models so much more apparent. Hoping that Ceu5ar really does use models only as much as it needs to and doesn't overinflate their importance in UI to the detriment of more important info, outside of actual character windows, the portraits should really never be that big.
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Well count me among the many who have no issues with 3D portraits. Honestly, I don't care if the portraits are 2D or 3D, as long as they don't look ridiculous. What I wanted for characters in PC are family trees and improved dynasty gameplay, without the pointless and forgettable character elements of Imperator,, so I'm quite happy with the latest Tinto talk. I do find it comical that you think that you speak for the "hardcore" or "core" audience of the forums when you only joined in 2019. You weren't even here during the heyday of 2D Paradox characters.
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Basing the "failure" of three games on 3D Portraits is a rather absurd claim, oui?
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They look like cartoons. I know that EU4 is rated as suitable for 12 yo. But come on, how many actual minors are playing it?
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Cartoon?
The European one was less good but this one shows the system can do this
Also cartoons are for children's so you would rather want drawings which are very much not for kids adult only?
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I’m not saying that the cartoon is badly made. It’s good, from the technical point of view. But it’s still a cartoon.
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Well we know that children will be displayed in some fashion since there is a family tree. But given how difficult it can be to show aging and child models (which are the worse part of Vicky 3 characters IMO), I wonder if it wouldn't best to have a generic picture for children until they come of age, similar to how CK2 did it. Obviously it would be better to have full character models for minors, but if they can't make them look right I'd rather not have them at all. We don't need any more balding toddlers or gigantic baby queens (though they were good for a laugh the first time seeing them in Victoria).
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So the models have captivated you so much you can't focus on anything else but the fantasy of playing dress-up with them?
Damn. I mean I like that models, but that is some extreme affection. Good for you.
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I didn’t say that I can’t focus on anything else anymore. I just don’t put my desk in the middle of a high way to do paperwork. You know what I mean?
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For CK3 3d stuff is obviously the main selling point because it is a sims game but medieval with incest and build in nudity. It wouldn't work without 3d models at all.
Vic3 and Imperator COULD succeeded with them - but I would argue that 3d models added to their poor reception.
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Please, there is no point in getting angry. I think at this point we can see that 3d portraits would be pushed into every subsequent PDX game. I just hope they would not wreck the UI and it would be possible to mod them out without breaking iron man mode.
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But why would you need to be so furious and insistant about not having these so called "drawings for children"? What do you have to prove?
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The curse of 3D is that you must either commit to full-detail (recent examples: The Last of Us Part II, Baldurs Gate 3, Alan Wake II) or full-abstraction (Valheim, Deep Rock Galatic, PS1-2 era games, Pixelart games etc.). The spot in between is occupied by the Uncanny Valley, and its incredibly hard to get out of if you aim for detail and get minor things wrong.
With 2D or 2.5D you can have a somewhat imperfect image that your brain will further embellish with imagination and then view as "natural". The problem with the method from a Gamedev perspective afaik (aside from 3D as a marketing gimmick as suggested by the OP, I don't know what the metrics are there), is that every portrait has to be redone by hand or at least a lot of it lending from a template. With 3D, after the ground work is done, variations of portraits can be autogenerated, so the difference in scale and cost-benefit with a GSG encompassing hundreds or thousands of countries is massive. It could just not be economically viable to do with the amount of tags in the game.
I think something constructive we can hope for is more graphical moddability, especially the ability to import our own skin shaders in a Blender-friendly format. Maybe even a rethink of the total ban on external plugins (maybe with some safeguards?) - the Skyrim graphics modding scene flourished for reason.
With 2D or 2.5D you can have a somewhat imperfect image that your brain will further embellish with imagination and then view as "natural". The problem with the method from a Gamedev perspective afaik (aside from 3D as a marketing gimmick as suggested by the OP, I don't know what the metrics are there), is that every portrait has to be redone by hand or at least a lot of it lending from a template. With 3D, after the ground work is done, variations of portraits can be autogenerated, so the difference in scale and cost-benefit with a GSG encompassing hundreds or thousands of countries is massive. It could just not be economically viable to do with the amount of tags in the game.
I think something constructive we can hope for is more graphical moddability, especially the ability to import our own skin shaders in a Blender-friendly format. Maybe even a rethink of the total ban on external plugins (maybe with some safeguards?) - the Skyrim graphics modding scene flourished for reason.
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It looks good. And I am not one the people that are necessarily against 3d models, but I do wonder what the purpose of these full screen models is? A small 3d portrait in the timeline of rulers seems logical, but I genuinely don't hope I have to encounter these full screen renders while playing the game.
I am not against 'progress', but I like the game so much because of the maps, Excel sheet like info, abundance of small buttons etc. Not because of RPG like mechanisms and large renderings of people, wonders or even a animation of a comet sighting.... Which are in my opinion only distracting.
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Yeah I don't think it should be too big in most ui, except maybe if there is a Court window (cabinet?) then why not having a big one (or for loading screen)
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Hope we get the option to turn them off. On my not so recent pc, 3D portraits always look bad, so i'm looking into that. Would prefer something more similar to stellaris. Oh and they should be small and not taking that much of UI space.
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These meltdowns about 3D portraits have been really bizarre, especially considering they’ve explicitly said that characters will not play a big role in the game. You all sound like you’re 12.
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