3D Artwork Megathread (all discussion here please)

[Ahmadmltft]

You can't just dislike a 3D portrait anymore, it has to be swept into some grand culture war about Victoria 3 or other such nonsense

Those "I thought we were supposed to do opposite of V3 in every aspect of this game,there goes my whole hype for the game" posts certainly aren't helping.

 

[ibvfteh]

Those "I thought we were supposed to do opposite of V3 in every aspect of this game,there goes my whole hype for the game" posts certainly aren't helping.

This thread is months old, yet it looks like it wasn't taken into account. Of course opinions shifted from "please don't do it" to more radical "whyyyy?". And how else you can show your unhappiness in forum if not making posts?

 

[August_bak]

I kinda like 3D portraits. My only concern is that for them to be good they would need significant polygon budget. I'm in no way expert in the field of game creation, but if we assume that 3D characters take a significant portion of the poly budget, I would much rather prefer having a vivid world with a lot of stuff moving around, than a character I probably won't pay attention to, except for the first few games. Would be nice if Johan explained some of the reasons behind that choice, and how it affects the graphic budget of the game if at all. So far Project Caesar might be the best paradox game ever made!

 

[Murtagks]

Its impossible to know how many people are hating/liking the 3D characters in general.
We also don’t know how many people like the CK3 characters but hate the Vic 3 characters.

Do I think the majority doesn’t want to have 3D in EU5? Yes, I think so.
Am I sure about this? No.

But Paradox can easily answer this with a survey.

But I know Paradox, they will ignore the feedback like always and doesn’t matter what will happen, they will introduce the ugly 3D characters in EU5.

I see the discussion about 3D on many platforms, like reddit, twitter or in german forum. And most of them are negative about the 3D characters in EU5

 

[Sir_Cattus]

I don't really care, and if I really dislike how the portraits end up looking, I'll probably just get a mod to change them. I don't think people will be choosing to buy the game on the portrait style.

 

[ibvfteh]

My only concern is that for them to be good they would need significant polygon budget.

It's not the problem with polygons, but with materials and shading. Human skin is highly complex with subsurface scattering.

 

[dragonluke]

Those "I thought we were supposed to do opposite of V3 in every aspect of this game,there goes my whole hype for the game" posts certainly aren't helping.

I mean I don't know what those people were thinking, this is still a pdx game, that has been in development at the same time as ck3 and vic3, obviously there's going to be similarities

 

[Murtagks]

First, I want to say that everyone is entitled to their opinion and of course we will keep an eye on any valuable feedback regarding Project Caesar as we have been doing since we started this process, but to comment on one point...



For Imperator, 3d characters were not at all one of the main points that caused it to not continue to receive development. People here can list probably some 10-20 points before getting into the character art.

For CK3, failure, really? I know it is a common theme to glorify CK2 in the forums, but there are no numbers that would put the games any close to each other in success, be it financial, engagement, reviews, anything. It is OK that sometimes the player sentiment in the forums (or reddit) is not necessarily shared across the entire player base of a game. The bigger our games get, the more different clusters of players we have, and we track as much as we can to make a game that everybody enjoy, but it is near impossible to satisfy 100% of people. Characters are definitely NOT a problem on CK3.

Then V3. Yeah, it is not Victoria 2 remastered. It is not a game for you if your really like the tactical aspect of little soldiers on a map, but it hardly comparable to Imperator in terms of numbers or player sentiment in the same timeline, so this "both are failure" sentiment is off. I understand there is a big division of sentiment about it, and a very engaged and negative community group especially in the forums/reddit dislike its take on the victorian setting, but I would also say that even in those groups, 3D characters is not one of their main issues they have with the game.

So I would argue that some concerns are valid, like effort needed to mod the game with the 3d characters, how they can look if not done well, maybe some potential problems with performance, etc, but there are some good benefits when it comes to immersion. And no, we do not push 3D characters to sell hats or whatever (Earth will stop moving the day business people can push anything in GSGs for the sake of making $$$).

Tinto believes this will make the game more interesting to players and is keen on taking the challenge to create engaging visuals while avoiding/minimizing the risks I mentioned above, even if characters are definitely not so upfront here as they are in the games you mentioned (sometimes I barely pay attention to the characters visuals when playing Caesar).

So again, we do value feedback, that is why we are doing this whole Tinto Talks thing, but a point just saying "I don't like it" is not super useful to us, because there are a lot of people that liked it as well, as you can check yourself on reactions to the character Tinto Talk.

“So again, we do value feedback, that is why we are doing this whole Tinto Talks thing, but a point just saying "I don't like it" is not super useful to us,”

You will not get “value feedback” other than "I don't like it", because its not a gameplay feature, its just cosmetic.


"because there are a lot of people that liked it as well, as you can check yourself on reactions to the character Tinto Talk."

Then pls do a survey.

Ask the community what they think of 3D characters in Paradox games in general.
What they think of the 3D characters in CK3.
What they think of the 3D characters in Vic3.
What they think of the 3D characters in EU5.
If Paradox should continue to add 3D characters in games.

Then we know, if the majority like the 3D characters or not.
But for now, it is impossible to know if the majority likes the 3D characters or not.

 

[ibvfteh]

do you think they added 3d portraits last month? They're not going to remove them before they've even showed them

Of course not.
But words: Next week though, we will talk about something that many people have asked for repeatedly.
Leave sour aftertaste (tho it was taking about trees more than 3d characters)
I would love at least acceptance that it is not all favorite decision. And few reasons why it and not 2d

 

[Ahmadmltft]

This thread is months old, yet it looks like it wasn't taken into account. Of course opinions shifted from "please don't do it" to more radical "whyyyy?". And how else you can show your unhappiness in forum if not making posts?

Those 3d models were probably made way before anyone here heard of "Project Caesar".

 

[Lord Lambert]

But Paradox can easily answer this with a survey.

Small sample size but its the best I could do;

 

[Lindaegan]

Small sample size but its the best I could do;
View attachment 1145551

To be fair, it was specifically about 3D portraits of characters, not characters in general.

That said, 27% saying no is rather surprising. I really would not have figured it to be that high - certainly haven't heard anything negative about that here. Maybe a lot of people just assumed characters would be like in I:R or CK? Or maybe this forum really is a bubble, lol.

 

[Murtagks]

Small sample size but its the best I could do;
View attachment 1145551

I would also say Yes. Because it only say character. And not 3D character.

But 27% no? This is surprising. I wonder why.

Can you do another poll with 3D character?

 

[Lord Lambert]

I would also say Yes. Because it only say character. And not 3D character.

But 27% no? This is surprising. I wonder why.

Can you do another poll with 3D character?

Tbf this poll was made right after Id made a video about the characters DD and, while I clearly must be wrong, to me it's pretty obvious that the question refers to the 3D models

But yeah I'll make a new poll

Poll from Lord Lambert

What would you prefer for characters in Project Caesar?

www.youtube.com

 

[Murtagks]

Tbf this poll was made right after Id made a video about the characters DD and, while I clearly must be wrong, to me it's pretty obvious that the question refers to the 3D models

But yeah I'll make a new poll
View attachment 1145560

Poll from Lord Lambert

What would you prefer for characters in Project Caesar?

www.youtube.com

Thanks. Because I doubt that Paradox will do a survey.

I am happy even with a small sample size. This will be interesting

 

[Ahmadmltft]

Thank god this discussion has died down and the posts became more reasonable towards the end.


It's funny though,the biggest controversy to this day about Project Caesar isn't even about the mechanics.

 

[Ahmadmltft]

Of course not.
But words: Next week though, we will talk about something that many people have asked for repeatedly.
Leave sour aftertaste (tho it was taking about trees more than 3d characters)
I would love at least acceptance that it is not all favorite decision. And few reasons why it and not 2d

Many people have repeatedly asked for expanded royal marriages and characters.

 

[Fatherlorris]

I have found that it's not that people like the 3D portraits, it's more that they don't care one way or another.

If you care about aesthetics then you tend to like the 2D, if you don't care you tend to like the status quo.

 

[Johan]

But how easy is it to do? Technically you can do it in CK3, it's been done by the weeb community to make anime mods.

It's a proper pain in the arse to do though, and the end result doesn't look great.

Partially because most modders dont export textured with mipmaps or manually make good ones, so when the game scales assets it looks like shit.

Its a drawback of having a scaling UI and supporting both potatos and 4k screens, and one of the two main reasons for 3d portraits. Its also a reason why many games nowadays tend to have cleaner UI, so that it can scale better without looking shit.

The other main reason for 3d portraits is that its far easier and quicker to make content, and you can have much bigger variety.

 

[MasterPaw]

Partially because most modders dont export textured with mipmaps or manually make good ones, so when the game scales assets it looks like shit.

Its a drawback of having a scaling UI and supporting both potatos and 4k screens, and one of the two main reasons for 3d portraits. Its also a reason why many games nowadays tend to have cleaner UI, so that it can scale better without looking shit.

The other main reason for 3d portraits is that its far easier and quicker to make content, and you can have much bigger variety.

Would a postprocessing on 3d to make a different art style (2d looking) be possible without affecting performance significantly?