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MattyG said:The list of non-acceptables is growing longer. Aberration II has now also too many events, and the Rest of the World material will all be a turn on option, not part of the basic set up. We have very few AGCEEP things here and they are all 'fill' until that region gets Aberrated. I actually can't think of many apart from the Incas and the Sonhai, the latter of which is being extracted very soon.
I think that if you want a real merger of some kind, then the detail needs to be laid out, especially where you are prepared to compromise. There are many critical issues of vision, style and decision-making that need to be on the table.
Well, the critical part is really only that any resurrection of any kind of Portugal, England, France, Spain, Ottoman Empire, Austria, Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Holland and Prussia is a no go. That was the basic premise of the mod and the very reason I made it. If everyone can agree with that Aberration is at that at the core to trash the vanilla majors and bring out the medium and small powers, then there is no reason to go seperate ways whatsoever. High on my list is to reinstitute some things which have been scrapped in Sicily, but that should be a nuisance.
Apart from that I think that if Matty and me combine efforts we can soon generate a final version where all stuff is covered.
I think abe's should be separated, or it will never get finished, with two leaders with fully different views on the mod.
TheArchduke said:Well, the critical part is really only that any resurrection of any kind of Portugal, England, France, Spain, Ottoman Empire, Austria, Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Holland and Prussia is a no go. That was the basic premise of the mod and the very reason I made it. If everyone can agree with that Aberration is at that at the core to trash the vanilla majors and bring out the medium and small powers, then there is no reason to go seperate ways whatsoever. High on my list is to reinstitute some things which have been scrapped in Sicily, but that should be a nuisance.
Apart from that I think that if Matty and me combine efforts we can soon generate a final version where all stuff is covered.
This has quickly become a thread about a merger.
I see a big difference between a vanilla major on one hand, and a country than can re-emerge (it does not exist at game start) among the French minors and be called France, but which has none of the same monarchs, leaders or events as that vanilla nation.
It makes perfect sense to me that if the French nobility formed up into a cohesive nation they would call it France, but if it's just about names, heck, they can call it Dennis (no, wait, that one is taken.) Ditto the Portugese refugees who fled to Eire. Those are, in fact, the only two majors 'brought back'. Matching, I guess, the two majors retained by Aberration I, Poland and Hungary. And Portugal is weak and an ai only non-selectable country. And France should be hard for the ai to form, mostly something for SP play, and the option is only there until 1520. But, hey, we can call them Oporto and - instead of France - just have events that say they have 'taken on the heritage of France'.
So, does your posting above mean that you are prepared to give up the final say on what goes in and what doesn't? I only want to be part of a team, not a contributer to someone's personal project, sorry.
MattyG said:So, does your posting above mean that you are prepared to give up the final say on what goes in and what doesn't? I only want to be part of a team, not a contributer to someone's personal project, sorry.
Great words MattyG
how about you both just post a "mission statement" as to what you feel "your" mod should be? The above posts don't seem to indicate a fundamental difference of opinion (yet, anyway) rather more of a different approach.
And besides, formulating your goals never hurts
And besides, formulating your goals never hurts
ForzaA said:how about you both just post a "mission statement" as to what you feel "your" mod should be? The above posts don't seem to indicate a fundamental difference of opinion (yet, anyway) rather more of a different approach.
And besides, formulating your goals never hurts
It has all been up in threads for some time.
Vision
Design Principles
Event Scripting
Matty
If the disagreement really is about the resurrection of RL majors, then it shouldn't be a big issue. As I understand it none of the revenants are default occurrences, and even then we can rename them to make the distinction clear. I think even if Abe I and II stay separate (and there are other reasons for keeping them so), it would be good to stick to ArchDuke's 'no vanilla majors' principle as far as possible in Abe II.
Hopes for English independence are divided between York and Wessex. Either of these states might emerge and take over most of England, but they'll be very different from the real London-centred England, with London itself being either Hanseatic, (semi-)independent or stubbornly rebellious, and at any rate with little desire for country-building.
Porto and Oporto are just different names for Portugal. But we could just as well call the unified Christian power in Iberia Asturias or Leon, and no-one could accuse it of vanillaness. It certainly wouldn't be shaped like either Spain or Portugal.
The Boyar League is admittedly rather Russian. But it's nothing like the Empire of Russia, as should be clear by its name, and it's unlikely to get very far south.
For France, we don't need the name-change necessarily. A 'French' Burgundy could continue calling itself Burgundy, just have different events via a flag. I'm sure there are other titles the King could take on if he wanted to formally split from the HRE. Core/culture-wise Abe 'France' is not a patch on vanilla France, as it lacks authority over both Brittany and Occitania.
There were plans for a radical theocratic state in the Low Countries, but it certainly doesn't have to be called the Netherlands or Holland. There are loads of names to choose from here, and while it would be colonial by necessity, it should make players think more of the Amish than the House of Oranje. At any rate, it should NOT form by a 'national revolt in the Low Countries', as that smacks far too much of the history of a real major.
Prussia is in the Teutonic Order's heartland, end of story. Brandenburg is more contested, but Berlin is unlikely to be the capital of a major power.
Poland is a meagre shadow of real Poland, and isn't supposed to last as an independent state. From the point of view of the TO's events, I don't have a problem with breaking Poland into statelets, though I might have to rethink the 'Polish revolt'.
Hopes for English independence are divided between York and Wessex. Either of these states might emerge and take over most of England, but they'll be very different from the real London-centred England, with London itself being either Hanseatic, (semi-)independent or stubbornly rebellious, and at any rate with little desire for country-building.
Porto and Oporto are just different names for Portugal. But we could just as well call the unified Christian power in Iberia Asturias or Leon, and no-one could accuse it of vanillaness. It certainly wouldn't be shaped like either Spain or Portugal.
The Boyar League is admittedly rather Russian. But it's nothing like the Empire of Russia, as should be clear by its name, and it's unlikely to get very far south.
For France, we don't need the name-change necessarily. A 'French' Burgundy could continue calling itself Burgundy, just have different events via a flag. I'm sure there are other titles the King could take on if he wanted to formally split from the HRE. Core/culture-wise Abe 'France' is not a patch on vanilla France, as it lacks authority over both Brittany and Occitania.
There were plans for a radical theocratic state in the Low Countries, but it certainly doesn't have to be called the Netherlands or Holland. There are loads of names to choose from here, and while it would be colonial by necessity, it should make players think more of the Amish than the House of Oranje. At any rate, it should NOT form by a 'national revolt in the Low Countries', as that smacks far too much of the history of a real major.
Prussia is in the Teutonic Order's heartland, end of story. Brandenburg is more contested, but Berlin is unlikely to be the capital of a major power.
Poland is a meagre shadow of real Poland, and isn't supposed to last as an independent state. From the point of view of the TO's events, I don't have a problem with breaking Poland into statelets, though I might have to rethink the 'Polish revolt'.
MattyG said:
I know, but well.. they seem to fit the original ABE more than (some) of the new events.. Or I'm reading it wrong, ofcourse.
Or, in other words, some people currently working on the project, or who's work is currently in, seem to be writing more from feeling, and not so much from THAT mission statement.
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The disappearance of the vanilla majors was needed and intended to prevent any new ideas of SP/MP players to resurrect them. Basically the Kingdoms of France and England are dissolved and should be viewed as someone should view the old Carolignian Empire - as dead.
Oporto is a city state, Portugal is a Kingdom, big difference especially in those times when claims meant something. Please consider this too, when viewing the english and french situation.
There is no reason at all for any nations akin to Vanilla, if so play Vanilla. MattyG has it in the vision statement as #1 and that is it my worry number one. Scotland conquered and smashed England to pieces together with an evil alliance with Brittany. There is no England, but a bunch of Lord squabbling over the leftovers, likely to be gobbled up by Brittany and Scotland. Why there should be a Wessex is a miracle to me as well.
Poland is a fun issue. It was the only power I retained because of their unlucky history in the vanilla Eu2, but I found it more fun to give TO a chance.
I have no problems at all with decisions being influenced by everyone, but there should be a controlling instance which puts things, like MattyG is atm.
Oporto is a city state, Portugal is a Kingdom, big difference especially in those times when claims meant something. Please consider this too, when viewing the english and french situation.
There is no reason at all for any nations akin to Vanilla, if so play Vanilla.
MattyG has it in the vision statement as #1 and that is it my worry number one. Scotland conquered and smashed England to pieces together with an evil alliance with Brittany. There is no England, but a bunch of Lord squabbling over the leftovers, likely to be gobbled up by Brittany and Scotland. Why there should be a Wessex is a miracle to me as well.Poland is a fun issue. It was the only power I retained because of their unlucky history in the vanilla Eu2, but I found it more fun to give TO a chance.
I have no problems at all with decisions being influenced by everyone, but there should be a controlling instance which puts things, like MattyG is atm.
If we do give Abe II a new name, there is one that has accidentally been associated with the project for some time, as it's the one used in the uploads forum:
'New World'
The trouble is people might think the mod is somehow focused on the Americas, as I'm sure MattyG meant when he used it to describe his work on the Maya, Dichali, smallpox etc material.
We could call it simply the 'What If Mod' (WIM) - it rolls off the tongue better than AGCEEP at any rate
'New World'
The trouble is people might think the mod is somehow focused on the Americas, as I'm sure MattyG meant when he used it to describe his work on the Maya, Dichali, smallpox etc material.
We could call it simply the 'What If Mod' (WIM) - it rolls off the tongue better than AGCEEP at any rate
Insolitus isnt bad , and we can ask the graphic genuises to make us our own designs for the game to give it an independent feeling.
MattyG said:
"resurrection" of England, France.
Admittedly partly my fault: Cordoba taking most/all of Iberia AND becoming a colonial power. reeks somewhat of Spain, imo.
Byzantium has enough cores and small neighbours to, at least, rival AI OE in vanilla.
Ukraine starts from a different position than Muscowy in Vanilla, but their "tales" are imo fairly similar.
TO, atleast early on, is quite similar to the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth; largest power in the area, able to kick the *** out of almost anyone (from my observations, anyway).
Bavaria often acts as the "new BWB"..
and so on. "no big blobs" sounds nice in principle, but it's not really working well *yet*, due, in part, to the events some countries get.
You know its funny, MattyG has been giving up his free time for the past 6 months working on this mod, putting in new material, enriching the game, listening to suggestions from players (Hey, he even tolerates MY bickering) and continues improving the mod and for what?nothing but the enjoyment of players.Rather than lynching at him do this : If you dont like Abberation II output ; stick to Abberation I and improve whatever u think is nessicary whilst leaving out whatever you dont agree with.
Abberation II has evolved into something different.Regardless of how "vanilla" some nations seem!Stop being ridiculous!
Byzantium IS LIKE OE because OE imitated Byzantium, heck Sultan Mehmet II wanted to rejuvinate the Roman Empire through his own state!
As for Cordoba looking like Spain - heh- the Ummayeds controlled most of Iberia anyway, and it would have made sense for the Muslims to simply eredicate the annoying Christian states once and for all "learning from the reconquesta".
Abberation II has evolved into something different.Regardless of how "vanilla" some nations seem!Stop being ridiculous!
Byzantium IS LIKE OE because OE imitated Byzantium, heck Sultan Mehmet II wanted to rejuvinate the Roman Empire through his own state!
As for Cordoba looking like Spain - heh- the Ummayeds controlled most of Iberia anyway, and it would have made sense for the Muslims to simply eredicate the annoying Christian states once and for all "learning from the reconquesta".
I don´t see any lynching here, I actually thought we had a constructive discussion.
And please step back shortly and think of what I invested in this mod time wise before you even showed up.
In any case if you think bringing back France and having a slightly different history mod is what I meant Aberration to be, then sorry, that wasn´t it. And I do hope so everyone feels like that.
And please step back shortly and think of what I invested in this mod time wise before you even showed up.
In any case if you think bringing back France and having a slightly different history mod is what I meant Aberration to be, then sorry, that wasn´t it.
And I do hope so everyone feels like that.
Oh no no no, you misunderstood me then, You are the founder of the Mod - that is a given.However, I find it a bit silly that after leaving the mod for quite some time, and after many changes had been done (improvements if you will) by the new lead designer, you wish to *change* a good deal.It seems rather unfair to the people who also contributed to the mod.