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They didn't say but it's implied. Plus they've dropped so many clues in the books that it would just be a cheap swerve to not go with it.
Dude, it's implied because you want to.
Again, don't take teories on asoiaf as the gospel.
Martin is really smart, he gave life to a world full of machiavellians plots and mysteries; are you sure he would give up to you something like this so easily?
Machiavellians plots and mysteries indeed. And sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Even Cesare Borgia himself would fail if he outright told his opponent that he will scheme against them and gave them twenty years to prepare before he spring the trap.
If you gave the world a mystery and an unlimited amount of time to solve it, the secret will eventually be cracked. And there is a mystery in this series, mark my word. Unlimited is a bit excessive, but we've had been given almost twenty years to digest Martin's words. The revelation of Jon's mother would have blown most of our minds if Martin had kept the series a trilogy and finished it ten years ago, but the story have been lengthened by five book. The trap will still be sprung on us, but thanks to the internet, most of us can just see it coming. There's nothing wrong with that.
Also, Martin hands out his hints and clues about Jon's mother so sparingly that this is hardly an "easy" theory. But once a reader connect all the dots and look at it from a different perspective, it's the one that makes the most sense.
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Again, it makes sense to you.
You connect all the dots and look at it from a different perspective that you choose among all perspectives.
It's a terrible type of ontology saying "C'moon It's soo clear! It's in front of my eyes! It must be the truth because it make sense!"
The community is dragging this theory since clash of kings like we have all the evidences from the start and there can't be a twist at some point, a link missing that martin havent told yet.
Like Martin is a kind writer sooo linear and predictable, and he doesnt fucks anyone ever...
(following this, the blackfyre 9/11 plot is a great example)
I asked some years ago how is it possible genetically that a nordic blue eyed girl being pregnat of a valyrian guy could gave birth to jon snow.
No one knows Gregor Mendel, of course
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To each their own then, but...
"Lyanna is described by all who knew her as beautiful, with the dark hair, grey eyes and long face that characterize the Starks."
"Jon has a lean build, with dark brown hair and grey eyes so dark they border on black/ He is graceful and quick. Tyrion Lannister notes that Jon has the traditional Stark face in everything but name—long, solemn and guarded—a face that gives nothing away. He remarks to himself that whoever Jon's mother was, she left little of herself in her son's appearance."
"Lyanna is described by all who knew her as beautiful, with the dark hair, grey eyes and long face that characterize the Starks."
"Jon has a lean build, with dark brown hair and grey eyes so dark they border on black/ He is graceful and quick. Tyrion Lannister notes that Jon has the traditional Stark face in everything but name—long, solemn and guarded—a face that gives nothing away. He remarks to himself that whoever Jon's mother was, she left little of herself in her son's appearance."
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I think he's more questioning the whole "nordic blue-eyed girl" thing; Lyanna and Jon both carry the same dark hair (typically genetically dominant, since you bring up Mendel as though it isn't) and grey (not blue) eyes of their Stark heritage. That said, it's still worth noting that Ned himself, the ostensible father if you reject the R + L = J theory and accept in-book common knowledge at face value, is also a Stark with dark hair and grey eyes, so that in itself isn't saying much...lol
"How can you not see this!? he's the bastard son of Rhaegar!!111!!"
Alright man
N + L = J confirmed.
Kidding all aside, I agree with R + L = J, but I can see why other theories exist.
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Well there's really only 3 other theories about who his mother is. There's Lyanna, Wylla, and Ashara Dayne. The other two don't really make sense. Why would Ned not tell Jon if his mother was just some wetnurse? Why not just leave Jon and his mother with another lord? Robert or Jon Arryn? That would keep Jon away from Cat and wouldn't be a constant reminder of infidelity. Ashara Dayne? It's implied that it was Ned's older brother that "dishonored" Ashara. Why lie about Jon being his? Cat wouldn't be upset at having Ned's brother's child around and Ned wouldn't have an unneeded stain on his honor. And if Ned was actually the father of Ashara's child that would mean that Ned stole the baby from his mother and told her it died. That's a little too fucked up for good guy Ned to do. No. Lyanna is the only one that makes sense storywise. Anything else would just be a come from nowhere twist and would suck balls as a story mechanic.N + L = J confirmed.
Kidding all aside, I agree with R + L = J, but I can see why other theories exist.
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Wasnt there also the daughter of the guy who agreed to sail Ned back to the north at the start of the rebellion ?
I've NEVER said Ned is the father, nor that I accept his version.
The valyrian gene is not so recessive considering the mother of Aerys I and Maekar I was mariah martell.
but it's cool to know that for you there are only two possible solutions and that's it.
So what is your theory, if you don't mind my asking? And drop that condescending tone unless you mean to turn this civil discussion into a bitter spat.
R+L=J makes the most sense for me, but personally, I do support other theories, even if its not as strongly. Like, I really wanted Jon to be Ned's and Ashara's love child. Before we found out about Brandon and Ashara in ADWD, I've always felt Ned and Ashara had a very tragic love story, how their two houses were divided by war, how Ned killed her brother for his sister, and how she went mad with grief and jumped off the tower because of it(and because he was already married to Cat). In the end, Ned lost his sister, his lover, and his honor. This felt so bitter and sad but sweet at the same time.
Of course, this theory is VERY unlikely now, but it still holds a special place in my heart.
I never meant to say you did. Though you could stand to be a bit less supercilious about it, it's understandable that you're confusing my generic "you" with meaning you specifically; I could have used "one" without changing the intended meaning as well, and likely should have. My apologies for the confusion that my unfortunate choice of wording in context engendered.
As for your other, less-understandable assumptions, I actually know at least four theories as to the mother alone, entirely leaving aside the father. So, given that I did not mention a binary option in my post (the closest being the detailing of a second choice under two primary assumptions that I explicitly outlined) and made absolutely no specifications about which, if any, I personally believed, why in the world would you assume I believe it to be a binary choice? True, though, I was taking a sideways swipe at R+L=J, which plainly at least one other user picked up on to make their own amusing rejoinder, but that was the most that could be read into it.
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Dude chill, it's the internet, you don't know my real tone as I'm writing.
I'm just pointing out something that kinda doesn't make sense at all genetically speaking (remember maekar and aerys?).
And yes, I mocked you a little because I find this silly not because I hate you or I hate random people on forums.
Alright, speaking of genetics, at the time of the first appearance of Young Griff, I discussed with some people the possibility of Jon being the real Aegon VI.
I was very puzzled by the fact Rhaenys was dark haired with black eyes, and YG was pure valyrian, no middle way between these two.
So we immediately used the blackfyre plot as an excuse for this "genetic discrepancy".
But then, we got stuck again, because we considered a computational error.
What if, Martin give us false hints to deviate us from the truth?
So we started arguing about a first switch before the second switch during the sack of king's landing and... the mess in our heads just kept increasing.
At this point I gave up theories, waiting for new elements, new proofs, and so now I just reccomend people to NOT being so sure about things in asoiaf.
(thank you for opening your heart with us in the second part of the message
)
I never meant to say you did. Though you could stand to be a bit less supercilious about it, it's understandable that you're confusing my generic "you" with meaning you specifically; I could have used "one" without changing the intended meaning as well, and likely should have. My apologies for the confusion that my unfortunate choice of wording in context engendered.
As for your other, less-understandable assumptions, I actually know at least four theories as to the mother alone, entirely leaving aside the father. So, given that I did not mention a binary option in my post (the closest being the detailing of a second choice under two primary assumptions that I explicitly outlined) and made absolutely no specifications about which, if any, I personally believed, why in the world would you assume I believe it to be a binary choice? True, though, I was taking a sideways swipe at R+L=J, which plainly at least one other user picked up on to make their own amusing rejoinder, but that was the most that could be read into it.
Seems like I sounded a bit too harsh in that comment ahah
For the way I've red your comment it sounded like "there are two theories: R+L=J or the official one. so you support the official one."
I thought it was a bit closed minded so I replied, sorry if it sounded crabbed.
It's late here in europe and I'm human too
Yes, but again, why take the baby home? The mother was alive. Why not just set the boy and his mother up someplace nice?
If there is an R+L=J mod I want a mod where the theory of Tyrion being the son of Aerys is made.
We'll call it [AGOT] A+J=T?
While not a popular theory, it would make for interesting gameplay.
We'll call it [AGOT] A+J=T?
While not a popular theory, it would make for interesting gameplay.
Oh i agree thats very unlikely to be her, but i wanted to bring her up because its another potential mother, however unlikely she may be.