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Manstein16 said:
I can't wait to post my AAR. "I started as Swabia but got bloody bored after the King stole my conquests in the North so I switched to a Danish duchy. But that got bloody boring on an income of 1 gold per month, so I switched to another Danish duchy. But after a CTD I discovered the AI in my absence had spent 300 gold that didn't exist on transporting troops across the Baltic, so I switched to Saxony. And the game ended a few minutes later. Hooray."
I hope you have a better luck next. This time, follow my advice and choose a border duchy ;). And you need a definite choice or else the AI is perfectly capable of ruining your progress everytime you switch and switch back.

I want rosbota to start the thread as he is king/host...

Come on people, I'm not the king of anyone :) (I'm just a duke, you know). Feel free to do anything you know I missed or to invite new players, and I didn't even host the game yesterday. If you feel any changes are needed in the first post, just post here detailing these changes ;). Supposing that everyone here wants to play a good game and will contribute for that both in the AAR's and in the game, we need no kings. We need just a player with a good internet connection to be the host.
 
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It was going rather fine with me hosting but my ISP decided to fail me at that time. I hope there's a opening for me next Saturday.
 
Ganso said:
It was going rather fine with me hosting but my ISP decided to fail me at that time. I hope there's a opening for me next Saturday.

There's still a few dozen duchies run by the AI. I think you'll be fine :)
 
CSK said:
And fasquardon, everyone who played until the end already has the saves, we need to download them in order to play.

Ach, colour me me dozy, I didn't think of that.

You can tell I'm not very experienced at the MP stuff sometimes :)

fasquardon
 
Llywelyn said:
I'm in China, but if the time difference can be worked out, I'd like to play :)

j.

Llywelyn, I almost forgot about you. Welcome aboard, and choose your duchy as soon as you can before the next play session ;) .
 
CSK said:
Well, I just looked up upon your ruler, he is your grandson IIRC. He is the only son of your eldest son who already was dead when you died fasquardon.

Yes, I realised that after we broke up on Saturday, and am working this all into a tale of confused succession for the AAR, which is very authentic for a medieval country in the middle of a major war, I think.

fasquardon
 
Well, I've installed Hamachi and it seems to work, but I'd like to test it before it's time for next session, anyone up for meeting either during the week or before the game on saturday for that?

fasquardon
 
CSK said:
I just want to tell you I can't make it next week. I have to work on Saturday evening in my school.

Bummer. Hopefully the AI won't destroy all of your hard-earned gains.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm having one helluva busy week and I can't wait for Saturday. Nothing like venting one's stress on the pagans.
 
That of course means if one reads this and doesn't yet play in the game and could sub for me I would really appretiate that.

And I am not in such a bad position, the only bigger enemy near me is Derbent, and I should have around the same manpower.
 
Brasidas said:
I suppose I might sub, the start time's ok. How long are your sessions?

Typically 5 hours, give or take depending on how quickly everyone gets frustrated with the constant rehosts. Last time we started with 7 players and ended with 4, so how long you play is really up to you. But last time we called it a day after 5 hours.
 
Well, I did some surfing of the MP forum to look at the rules other games used, and here's an idea for the rules we could use for the game.

There are a couple of things I've put in that I'm not sure about:

In Part (1) (ii) (a), can all players re-boot CK within five minutes in the event of CTD?

And does the whole idea presented here about voting on whether an AAR is good enough to be worth a bigger reward hold water? It might be overly cumbersome, and possibly devisive. If people like the idea of bigger rewards for better AARs, but not the voting system, it might be better to just have it so the GM decides if they like the AAR enough (or someone else in the event that it's the GMs AAR).

Thoughts?

fasquardon

Rules & Recommendations:

Part (1) - stability of the game and the players.

i) Re-hosts & starting:

a) We will wait for no more than 5 minutes after game start (by the host's watch) for players to arrive. If you aren't here by then, tough cookies. Likewise, we will not wait more than 5 minutes before re-starting the game after a crash.​
b) Do not select your state before the host.​
c) Do not leave the game set-up if someone is downloading.​
d) Do not go afk without warning. Try to avoid unnecessary afks. When going afk, an estimated time for your absence would be appreciated. Remember to say when you are back.​
e) Do not alt-tab away from CK.​
f) If the game is being really unstable, don't take out your frustration on other players, we're gonna be as pissed as you.​
g) If a player crashes, the game is rehosted at the start of the next year unless he is in war in which case an immediate rehost.​
h) If you know you will be away for a game session, either find yourself a sub, or accept that you will be AI'd.​


ii) While the game is running:

a) When the game starts, say "in". Do absolutely nothing with the mouse until the host tells everybody "start". If you click on *anything* before everybody has joined, the game might crash. You *may* chat with others, including private-messages, but as everybody is reporting in, your message might go unnoticed in the plethora of messages.​
b) Do not go afk without warning. Try to avoid unnecessary afks. When going afk, an estimated time for your absence would be appreciated. Remember to say when you are back.​
c) Do not alt-tab away from CK.​
d) DO NOT PAUSE. If you urgently need to get the game paused, ask the host to pause. If the host is temporally AFK or is not able to see your messages, then pause until the situation is cleared with the host. While paused, make sure someone is still manipulating the game.​
e) Let a few seconds pass before accepting an annexation offer.​
f) Remember to be courteous at all times when speaking out of character. In-character insults are, of course, part of the game.​
g) It helps if CK is the only program running, particularly when you are the host. Also, it helps to de-fragment your hard-disk regularly.​


Part (2) - game play considerations.


i) Avoiding gamey-ness:

a) We encourage roleplaying. Try to get into the headspace of your ruler, rather than doing things just because they will increase your power.​
b) Avoid grabbing Duke & King level titles, if you do, then present the other players with a reason for the action that might make sense for the period, eg: "My ruler is descended from X (a previous king of the claimed title), but the usurper Y (present king of the claimed title) maintains an unjust salic law that denies me my rightful throne!" Because we hope to be playing this game for a long time yet, players with weaker states will be granted more leeway, for example, a player who controlled only the Duchy of Normandy could claim the throne of England based on a claim like: "The last king promised me this throne on his death bed!" If he timed it so that he made his claim only shortly after a change of English monarch (you can't go wrong by imitating William the conqueror). Where as a player who controlled all of France would not be impressing anyone with a claim like this.​
c) There are no limitations on usurping however.​
d) No heathen-bashing without an excuse that might make sense for the period. eg. Russian Principalities may bash the heathens in historical Russia, but not in Egypt; Italy may bash heathens in Jerusalem if it is a crusade target, but not if there is no crusade. As the situation in the game changes, players may ask for a vote of players to decide if their area of heathen-bashing might be extended, in such a case, they should present an argument that might make sense for the period. Ties are broken by the GM, or if the GM is not present, the host. This is to restrict the formation of impossible-looking empires, and to extend the lives of the heathens a bit.​


ii) War and Peace:

a) When declaring war against another player, or an AI controlling the state of a player who has warned the group that they will be absent, the player must publicly declare their war-aims. These may change during the course of the war, but again, they must be publicly declared. If a player is absent for longer than they said they would be, their state is considered an AI one, and other players may declare war without stating their aims.​
b) When declaring war against non-heathens, the player must give a role-played reason (though it doesn't have to be a good one).​
c) It is, as a general rule forbidden to annex another player's vassal, unless he has given you permission - either explicit, by agreeing to it out loud, or implicit, by not DOWing you when you DOW the vassal. However, if you have been at war with someone for three years, and they refuse to make peace, you are permitted to annex vassals. There is no other force-peace rule, apart from occupying someone's demesne entirely.​
d) If a war starts, and a player ally is AI'd, it is O.K. to call on them.​
e) If you and your allies have no further war-making capacity, make peace. Do not refuse peace-offers simply out of spite.​



Part (3) - AARs and Rewards.


a) We strongly encourage AARs, as these greatly add to the atmosphere of a game.​
b) AARs must be at least 500 words long to be eligible for a reward. The normal AAR reward is either three month's income, or the addition (not removal) of one trait of your choice to your ruler. Make sure to post your AAR at least 24 hours before the game so the person editing gets a chance to see it. You may save up AAR rewards, but you may not ask for money if you do.​
c) If you feel that your AAR is particularly good, you may request a more substantial reward. The other players (you can't vote for yourself) will then vote on whether they agree that your AAR is good enough to justify the reward requested. Ties are broken by the GM, or if the GM is not present, the host. Your AAR *must* be posted 72 hours before the start of the game, so that the other players have a chance to read it and decide on the matter. Voting is closed 24 hours before the game.​

What are the minimum requirements of "a particularly good AAR"?

i) It should exceed 1000 words.​
ii) It should have relevant screenshots (i.e. not clip-art - we want information on your empire).​
iii) It should be entertaining.​

What are you voting on if the player has made a request?

i) Did you enjoy reading it.​
ii) Has the author requested a reasonable reward?​
iii) Try to put aside in-game rivalries. If the ruler of all Germany, France and Iberia writes a good AAR, it should be judged on the same level as an AAR written by the Duke of Iceland.​

Some ideas as to a reasonable level of reward per word:

i) +1 permanent improvement to an attribute for every 1000 words.​
ii) Removal of one trait of your choice from your ruler for every 1500 words.​
iii) Addition of 1 county claim per 2000 words.​
 
To the rules:

1.) What is the point with not alt-tabbing in CK itself? In hours of play I had, and I had quite a lot, it never led to a CTD. I had some when I was in game, but outside of it I never had them. Running firefox and surfing the forums usually doesn't hinder the game at all, other programs however do.

2.) The AAR rewards seem strange to me. Giving traits to yourself only helps if your ruler is still young enough. Also, let's say I want to have the crazyness removed for my outstanding AAR, that's just ridicolous. The trait should represent the person, and although I think it could be implemented AAR- and roleplaywise why he gets this particular trait, they just aren't balanced at all.

3.) The rule against AI controlled players is by far too harsh. AI never is a match for a player. If a player has no good reason to be absent exept to not get beaten up, I'm ok one fights him. But if he has a reason to be, or just didn't have a connection and thus couldn't tell, I think it's unfair to fight his AI. Nobody has problems with beating up AI, even if it has three times more men, you just need to be really fast.

4.) Not to wait more than five minutes for the game is just too short. There always will be times you will be a bit too late, or your PC has crashed totally and takes its time to reboot. Then it would be harsh if the player has to fight a war or is in a problematic situation.

5.) To the point with the AARs, let the readers vote as well. You ask the players not to be biased, but they can't. For example, you fight together with others against another player. This player's AAR is great, but if he gets the reward you will lose. Do you really choose to help him and sign your own doom? Or will you just not vote at all if it is questionable? I think this is easy to avoid if readers in the AAR section may vote as well, they are not that biased towards a player.

6.) Why is one simple claim on a county harder to get than an improvement of an attribute or a removal of a trait? As I said, really bad traits shouldn't be removed that way. It just makes it too easy to avoid bad monarchs. And attributes are very important, especially if it is diplomacy and you need that badly or stewardship. Two points into diplomatic skills might save your Empire from a collapse. Two points into stewardship might give you the income in some provinces to create a millitary academy, not to talk about the more troops that could cause you to win a war against another player. I think rewards in piety, prestige and maybe BB reduction are more reasonable.

7.) Why should anyone who wrote more than 2000 words in his post not request to be rewarded? I think if anyone has posted such a big AAR it automatically should be voted upon.
 
CSK said:
1.) What is the point with not alt-tabbing in CK itself? In hours of play I had, and I had quite a lot, it never led to a CTD. I had some when I was in game, but outside of it I never had them. Running firefox and surfing the forums usually doesn't hinder the game at all, other programs however do.

That was something I got from Jarkko's guide.

CSK said:
2.) The AAR rewards seem strange to me. Giving traits to yourself only helps if your ruler is still young enough. Also, let's say I want to have the crazyness removed for my outstanding AAR, that's just ridicolous. The trait should represent the person, and although I think it could be implemented AAR- and roleplaywise why he gets this particular trait, they just aren't balanced at all.

Well, I can't speak for the people who wrote URR's rules (which I based the basic AAR reward on) but the idea I had in my head was it would be like the trait-changing events in the game. So I'd say, "right, my king won lots of battles, fighting bravely every time, so I'd like to remove the cowardly trait from him" or something like that... But I wouldn't ask to remove cowardly if I hadn't fought a single battle with my ruler.

CSK said:
3.) The rule against AI controlled players is by far too harsh. AI never is a match for a player. If a player has no good reason to be absent exept to not get beaten up, I'm ok one fights him. But if he has a reason to be, or just didn't have a connection and thus couldn't tell, I think it's unfair to fight his AI. Nobody has problems with beating up AI, even if it has three times more men, you just need to be really fast.

So you reckon we should have a rule for maximally lenient peaces with AI'd players?

CSK said:
4.) Not to wait more than five minutes for the game is just too short. There always will be times you will be a bit too late, or your PC has crashed totally and takes its time to reboot. Then it would be harsh if the player has to fight a war or is in a problematic situation.

Yes, I wondered if it would take more than 5 mins to totally reboot as well...

CSK said:
5.) To the point with the AARs, let the readers vote as well. You ask the players not to be biased, but they can't. For example, you fight together with others against another player. This player's AAR is great, but if he gets the reward you will lose. Do you really choose to help him and sign your own doom? Or will you just not vote at all if it is questionable? I think this is easy to avoid if readers in the AAR section may vote as well, they are not that biased towards a player.

Got a point.

CSK said:
6.) Why is one simple claim on a county harder to get than an improvement of an attribute or a removal of a trait? As I said, really bad traits shouldn't be removed that way. It just makes it too easy to avoid bad monarchs. And attributes are very important, especially if it is diplomacy and you need that badly or stewardship. Two points into diplomatic skills might save your Empire from a collapse. Two points into stewardship might give you the income in some provinces to create a millitary academy, not to talk about the more troops that could cause you to win a war against another player. I think rewards in piety, prestige and maybe BB reduction are more reasonable.

A single claim is more expensive than the other things because I've found claims against Christians to be more valuable in my own experience.

Well, you should probably connect any of these rewards to what you actually did in the game...

I'm not sure about BB reduction. As it is, it's likely that player empires will be expanding pretty fast. Certainly I find in my SP games that BB is one of the big breaks on my expansion. If we did have a BB reduction, we should probably make it expensive.

Another non-trait-or-attribute reward would be money.

Any idea what numbers you'd use for how much piety/prestige or BB reduction you'd reward people with?

CSK said:
7.) Why should anyone who wrote more than 2000 words in his post not request to be rewarded? I think if anyone has posted such a big AAR it automatically should be voted upon.

Hmmm, thinking about it, you're probably right.

fasquardon
 
A possibility is to have a vote-post with each AAR where readers could vote for what reward they thought the author should get (if any), rather than the player saying "I want *this*" and people then voting on if they got it or not.

fasquardon