Augustus - Teaser #10 - 5th of August 2015

[Holy.Death]

Do you think any nation in EU4 was 'randomly generated'? Or were they meticulously balanced to give an interesting and challenging gaming experience? The latter, right?

Not really. I always felt that nations in EU4 aren't different enough to provide unique feeling while playing. CK2 was the opposite - it was always fresh and each game was unique no matter what. I think they need to simply make sure that races/characters/populace will impact game itself (like characters in CK2).

I have some experience with procedurally generated games and the fact that you really have to explore - because you don't know what's ahead of you - adds to the game and its exploration aspect. If randomly generated races will impact gameplay and gameplay will impact them in return, then their inclusion will matter a lot.

 

[LostAlone]

Not really. I always felt that nations in EU4 aren't different enough to provide unique feeling while playing. CK2 was the opposite - it was always fresh and each game was unique no matter what. I think they need to simply make sure that races/characters/populace will impact game itself (like characters in CK2).

I have some experience with procedurally generated games and the fact that you really have to explore - because you don't know what's ahead of you - adds to the game and its exploration aspect. If randomly generated races will impact gameplay and gameplay will impact them in return, then their inclusion will matter a lot.

But since you know how proc gen works, you know that sometimes the RNG will just screw your run by not giving the player the resources you need. And maybe that doesn't matter when you're playing Binding Of Isaac or FTL or Nuclear Throne where they are designed to be played in individual runs of an hour or so at a time. In a GSG where you are supposed to play one game for dozens of hours the proc gen elements become a MUCH bigger issue.

It's damned if you do, damned if you don't; a huge problem for all games like this:

If the random elements truely matter to the game play then sometimes it's just going to wreck your game and there'll be nothing you can do it about it.

If the random elements can't effect the game that much then they don't matter so every civ is the same.

You can have one or the other. And this is why random civs is not enough.

 

[Thure]

Random generation isn't the same. You know it's not. Do you think any nation in EU4 was 'randomly generated'? Or were they meticulously balanced to give an interesting and challenging gaming experience? The latter, right? Random generally works out pretty disinterestingly; either the occasional random civ will be garbage with horrible, conflicting penalties and no chance (have fun playing that one) or you'll get a very bland set of very similar, very boring factions because the possible traits are never too dreadful.

Sure there might be a billion possible civ combinations, but how many of them are going to be different in significant ways? How many of them are going to actually feel interesting and balanced to play as? Substantially fewer.

Also - Being real time is not new in 4X games. It's really not. It changes much less than you might think about the genre.

Only the non-playable factions are randomly generated. They are not their to be played. They are their for many reasons. You can conquere them, trade with them, some of them don't even have space-traveling and you can act as their patron and watch them. They are there to make a interesting world.

 

[Holy.Death]

If the random elements truely matter to the game play then sometimes it's just going to wreck your game and there'll be nothing you can do it about it.

If the random elements can't effect the game that much then they don't matter so every civ is the same.

You can have one or the other. And this is why random civs is not enough.

Actually you can. It's not only *if* the random elements matter, but also *how* they can impact everything else and what options player has at any given time to deal with any given situation. Look at Crusader Kings 2 - a lot of randomness, but that didn't mean you couldn't to anything or that your decisions didn't matter. In the end it all comes down to game design.

My only concern at this point is how they plan to deal with asymmetry when you are very strong (or - when you are very weak) after you meet other majors.