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You accuse me of trying to waste development time, when all I'm asking for is a comparison of traits backed by data that helps prove your argument. I want to help you make this game better for the single player and multiplayer communities, but I can't do that if you're not willing to see the bigger picture and show me what framework the traits are supposed to adhere to.

You want random balance adjustments without showing why and how and under what systems these make sense.
 
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You accuse me of trying to waste development time, when all I'm asking for is a comparison of traits backed by data that helps prove your argument. I want to help you make this game better for the single player and multiplayer communities, but I can't do that if you're not willing to see the bigger picture and show me what framework the traits are supposed to adhere to.
I didn't say you waste their time. I said they simply don't have unlimited time and have to make hard choices.

You want random balance adjustments without showing why and how and under what systems these make sense.
Quite frankly, I won't spend 2 hours of my time building this just to post it here for you to approve.
I am merely going to post the feelings of the community and let the developers decide what to do.

"We feel X is too strong and Y is too weak". That's it. They can decide whether they agree or not.
And the more people that post "Yeah I feel the same way" the more reason they have to look at it.
This is important because each player reaches their conclusions in a different way, as you mentioned.

What are our feelings based on? Multiple SP/MP matches where we compare performance/results.

Just out of curiosity, what's everybody's hours played for AoW4?

Threw in the first game as well, since they were sitting next to each other (most hours played sorting).
The funny thing is that this doesn't include my hours modding. Which is probably another 25-50% on top.

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Would you like my Age of Wonders resume? It's easy to dismiss something as "big head".
  • I have played Age of Wonders since 1999.
  • I have played multiplayer in AoW 1 and AoW 4.
  • I made the largest MP balance mod for AoW 1 (1000+ downloads).
  • I made the largest MP balance mod for AoW 4 (1600+ subscribers).
  • I have inherited the AoW 4 MP Discord (1500+ members).
  • I am involved with other MP communities (as I named before).
  • I am involved in feedback discussions with the developers.
  • I have a positive win rate in both AoW 1 and AoW 4 MP.
You're just going to find another reason to dismiss this though, either calling it ego or saying none of it matters.
But here's the thing, experiences shape a person. I have been involved with this game series for 25 years now.

Multiple of my mod changes have made it into the game, because the developers thought the same as me.
And it was not because I forced them to be made. I never even brought most of them up with the developers.

It's also not just me. I have an entire community of experienced players behind me helping with feedback.
They don't post here because they find it a waste of time, which I understand when I see these types of replies.

All you've done is be negative, press X reactions and go against every post I've made, where was your respect?
If you want to be treated respectfully then you have to show some of it yourself. Instead of childish emoji reactions.


Okay. pop-quiz. Here are questions for you:
  • Why is Tome of Cryomancy better than every T1 tome in the game?
  • Why is Ruthless Raiders a highly underpowered economical trait?
  • Why do Polearms lose to Shock units, despite Charge Resistance?
  • Why are Flying mounts better than all other 3 cost mount options?
Even in single player you should easily be able figure out the power differences at play here.

i don't mean that disrespectful or anything but dude, you are really FULL of yourself, you think your personal OPINION is a fact and only because you played certain builds for 30 turns repeatedly and with your handful of buddies that everything you believe in must be actual facts because ....."reasons".

every statement of yours you think is a fact, but you fail to actually make a case for your statements because it lacks arguments. just because you played the game a bit in multiplayer doesn't make you an expert of balancing, just because you like to play a certain way doesn't make it "OP" or "meta", its just in your head...just your personal opinion.

your "achievements" that you listed are nothing to write home about and pretty much worthless in the real world. i don't care if you played Age of Wonders 1 or made a "balance mod" for it, doesn't make an argument for balance in AoW4. i don't care that you made a mod which you called "balance mod" for AoW4 and a handful of people downloaded it, its of no concern and i can create a mod "super real balance mod" too and do the opposide you do with your mod, doesn't make it any more "balanced" than your mod though or than the base game. i would think that the developers which have developed a series with over 6 titles by now know how their balance works over a random dude who played two games of theirs with some buddies of his, sorry but you are just nothing compared to their expertise.


"positive winrate in AoW1 & 4" ... like lol...this isn't a MOBA game, the fact you can't understand that this is mainly a singleplayer game with some multiplayer features / multiplayer mode speaks volumes of your mindset and your "expertise". this isn't league of legends or dota 2, there is no "winrate", there is no matchmaking or "elo", its all just in your head mate. you try to create something in your mind that is just not here!

nobody cares about which part of the community you interact with or if you participate in some feedback discussions....well i did too, so did many others. still doesn't mean jack at all!

- why is tome of cryomance better than every T1 tome? ANSWER: IT ISN'T! its the ice-type copy of tome of evocation, which is better because it has more synergy and a proper continuation with the tome of amplification. why should tome of cryomancy be OP? because it has one single target 90% freeze spell for 1 turn with 10 cold dmg or a special unit that can apply it? who cares! instead of freezing one, you could dmg more than one or heavily debuff more than one. tome of pyromancy coupled with fire giant or spellblade / mage ruler or hero and you can combo an AoE blast every turn with 30 (fire evo) + 25 + burning every turn in an AoE. compared to your 90% single unit freeze + 10 cold damage how do you possibly think this would be op? hell i am a dark necro main and i rarely pick tome of cryomance because i need )/ want) all the necro tomes and tome of warding with magical wards and phantasm warriors are just leagues better than picking tome of cryomance as my second tome. because phantasm warriors are quite tanky (especially because +2 defense ethereal), are summonable everywhere and are also racial units. "cryomancy OP" my A.S.S.!

- "ruthless raiders is OP": why? it gives you some gold and draft every time you kill something, congrats! gold isn't really a problem in the game if you have a good city location, more than enough quests where you can get it too. or just sell some items or other stuff. like there are so many ways to make money, i won't waste a society trait pick on this. also there is "battlefield looting", which you can pick and it gives you the same amount of gold than ruthless raiders. there are better society traits, some give you a good early headstart and some scale well into the lategame. the majority of materium society traits give better headstarts and scale better. binding essence is really good if you want to focus on decking out your heroes, especially after the item forge nerf. great builders gives you a good headstart buildings wise and the SPI cost reduction scales quite well. astral mana channelers are vastly better for anyone using summons because of cost reduction and exp gain. umbral disciples and cult of personality are quite good in their niche. seafarers trumps ruthless raiders with a storm giant every day of the week. your statement that "ruthless raiders is OP" is worthless because you don't deliver a "why", i fail to see how its better than basically anything else on the list. gold & draft is important early on but there are ways to mitigate that need already and you only get 2 society picks, much better options for the long run.

- "polearm lose to shock": except they don't, in what sense should polearms "lose" to shock units? no argument given, just pure empty statement like always from you. of course it depends on the positioning, almost everyone can be flanked, its a game mechanic...deal with it.

-"flying mounts better than any other mount herpy derp": i wouldn't say that, they are really good with SOME cultures / units with SOME builds but worthless with others. you pay 3 points for the mobility, if you want high mobility and have a high unit count with (optional) cavalry units then flying mounts are the best yes. but IF you DON'T want the +40% bonus dmg from polearms or have your build centered around other stuff except moving 1-2 tiles extra, then those pick might be worthless. i rarely use that trait because there are other traits that can affect more units than just your cavalry units and that have an equal or bigger impact on your build than "more mobility". if it's JUST "mobility" then i would take "mount masters" for only 1 trait point over flying mounts because then you still can pick better form traits for all your units and your optional cavalry units still get more mobility (but +40% dmg from polearms).

the things you mentioned aren't even out of balance, its just your personal playstyle, nothing particularly good or strong about it, not even "really strong", there are better ways to build your faction but its your choice, no critique, but you shouldn't try to picture yourself as the balance master just because you no life this game.
 
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I want to see this game succeed and reach its best iteration, so im going to invest more of my time in these forums and on Reddit datascraping everything to create an informed opinion that attempts to put equal weights to balance and fun.

Since we're discussing culture traits, I want to point out that some affinities have more culture traits than others. Nature and Astral both have 5, while others have 6 and up to 7.

Within nature, Druidic Terraformers and Fabled Hunters get extra units. I would group these two and others from other affinities as Combat+ faction traits. Every affinity faction trait system has 2 combat+ traits with additional starting unit bonus...except for Chaos, which has 1 trait that gives 1 extra t1 unit.

Fabled Hunters needs to keep its unit starting bonus, and it needs to be compared with other affinity faction traits that help clear nodes. Traits that help clear tiles/nodes should have their own grouping as well. After more research, I'm surprised to see vigilante knights work less effectively than fabled hunters by using bounties and then clearing nodes, instead of clearing nodes directly. They also don't provide a starting unit bonus.
 
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I'll tell you how I know. Because I've had these conversations. With Triumph. It's also just common business sense.
They have planned work with timelines, resources and a budget. Just like any other company on this planet.
There has to be a choice made between what they can spend time on and what has to be postponed or ignored.

I already said in previous replies that our feedback is based on the game without mods and that we play SP too.
So no. Nobody said anything about balancing purely around mods or auto combat. It wasn't brought up at all.
I have only stated that auto combat is more credible than manual vs AI. Manual human vs human is the best option.


You're here to demand that the developers spend 100x more energy into buffing 75% of the game. It's unrealistic.
Nobody is going to spend hours making a framework as you demand, building entire spreadsheets for balance.

The frame of reference is simple. It's the middle ground between OP and UP. The majority of the game lives here.
Within the context given above, this is the only way the developers can approach such problems. You see it in all games.

But if you want confirmation, search for various developer replies and read all the previous game updates.
You'll notice a pattern of nerfs on OP things and buffs on weak things, while the rest remains untouched.
This isn't my influence, or yours, or anyone else's. This is the developers showing you what their framework is.


The problem lies in that you feel the need to press this on every post (notice how I don't).
While 2 or 3 other people who are just as negative will do the same, on every single post.
Those same 2-3 people then click on each other's posts with a checkmark, it's just hilarious.

I'm not sure what you want to achieve, but I find it childish behaviour akin to social media.

they balance the game quiet nicely with every patch, sometimes even overly nerf things. the reason your "OP stuff" isn't nerfed is just because it ain't "OP" but just against your personal preference. triumph ain't doing anything against that because your personal opinion about the balance of the game is just that...a personal opinion, no facts to be found.

you can bork your game as much as you want and remove half of the game if you want to play something barebones and feel good about it.....just do it with mods because 99,9% of the players enjoy the game and don't care about what your personal opinions are of their game. its fine as is, you just don't seem to accept that.
 
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I think a lot of you may be unfairly dismissing Cody. Have any of you looked at his balance mod? It doesn't seem very extreme. I'm still skeptical about the long list of things he considers OP, but he's right that the MP community has a better pulse for changes needed in the game. Even if there's not really enough MP to properly stress test balance, they're going to have a much better idea than SP.
 
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I think a lot of you may be unfairly dismissing Cody. Have any of you looked at his balance mod? It doesn't seem very extreme. I'm still skeptical about the long list of things he considers OP, but he's right that the MP community has a better pulse for changes needed in the game. Even if there's not really enough MP to properly stress test balance, they're going to have a much better idea than SP.
I admit we can be in agreement about a lot of balancing issues, but it's really hard to take Cody seriously by the way he communicates.
Besides, I will only listen to the opinions of people who played more than 3,044.5 hours anyway... ;)
 
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If I had to make an argument for every change I wrote in that list, I'd be writing an entire page worth of text.
That's not worth my time just for a couple people who disagree to finally understand the issue at hand.

Multiple people have used their own brain power to determine that they agree with at least some things on the list.
I suggest you number crunch and gameplay test yourself if you think I am wrong. I'd love to know why you think that.

I am not "full of myself". I have debated these issues with multiple people in my own community and others.
Just because you don't see 10+ people posting here backing me up, doesn't mean I haven't done any research.
I simply did not come here to debate it with each and every one of you individually as well. That's all there is to it.
 
I can create a mod "super real balance mod" too and do the opposide you do with your mod, doesn't make it any more "balanced" than your mod though or than the base game.
You're right. All the people who have given praise to the mod and subscribed to it are wrong.
You realize that 75% if not more of my subscribers are actually single player players, right?
Feedback is gathered from all audiences and changes are not made purely because I deem it so.

I suggest you release your super real balance mod for the 5 people who will subscribe to it, it'll be a good laugh for us.

I would think that the developers which have developed a series with over 6 titles by now know how their balance works over a random dude who played two games of theirs with some buddies of his, sorry but you are just nothing compared to their expertise.
You should realize by now that the developers aren't aiming to make a balanced multiplayer game.
They did this with Planetfall and when the game didn't do that well they dropped that design.

It doesn't mean they don't care at all. But they have placed higher priority on roleplay and theme.
This leads to designs that can often be "broken". Balance doesn't mean removing them though.

nobody cares about which part of the community you interact with or if you participate in some feedback discussions....well i did too, so did many others. still doesn't mean jack at all!
Darn. I guess I should remove all my past experience and references from my resume too.
Thank you for this insight into the world and bringing me closer to my 6 figure dream job!

- why is tome of cryomance better than every T1 tome? ANSWER: IT ISN'T!
Too much to quote it all. But suffice to say, thinking Spellblade is strong says enough about your experience.
  • Lesser Snow Spirits are the most reliable unit to farm the map with out of any T1 tome.
  • They trigger their own enchantment (Frost Blades) with guaranteed Slowed if Frozen fails to apply.
  • Blizzard makes the chances of applying Frozen even higher and remains strong even in the late game.
  • The SPI is miles better than anything any other T1 tome offers except for Alchemy.
  • The speed of evolving from T1 to T3 is guaranteed better than anything you can draft as T3.
But hey, I invite you to try your Pyromancy/Necromancy builds against one of our players with Cyromancy. Bring it on :)

- "ruthless raiders is OP":
I said Ruthless Raiders is weak. Underpowered. You should read more carefully.

- "polearm lose to shock": except they don't, in what sense should polearms "lose" to shock units? no argument given, just pure empty statement like always from you. of course it depends on the positioning, almost everyone can be flanked, its a game mechanic...deal with it.
Not related to flanks at all. Polearms quite literally just die to base damage and retaliations.
Doesn't matter that they cancel the Charge bonus and deal +40% damage to most targets.
Of course I don't expect you to know how to fully optimize a Shock unit build for this purpose.

They get especially clapped by Berserker, Oathbound, Avenger and Phase Beast. All of which take no bonus damage.

-"flying mounts better than any other mount herpy derp": i wouldn't say that, they are really good with SOME cultures / units with SOME builds but worthless with others. you pay 3 points for the mobility
There are only 3 types of builds.
  • 3 Point mounts
  • Mount Masters
  • No mounts
I said that Flying mounts are always better for 3 points than the other 3 point choices. You aren't proving me wrong.
You're just telling me a whole story about Mount Masters and Polearms. Which is not even what I was talking about.

Any 3 point cost mount in this game is worse than the Flying mounts. It's that simple.

the things you mentioned aren't even out of balance, its just your personal playstyle, nothing particularly good or strong about it, not even "really strong", there are better ways to build your faction but its your choice, no critique, but you shouldn't try to picture yourself as the balance master just because you no life this game.
Then come play a match with some experienced players. We'll even do it in vanilla specially for you.
Or can you only throw out insults on the internet without anything to back up your bravado?
 
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"1 vs 1 me bro"

Dude, you are literally going page after page crying about how the game is a broken uncompetitive mess, and now you're flexing on people with your vanilla/modded MP skills!? In a so called "unbalanced" game??

Do we even get ladder matches for this game and a rank system to go with it?? Why would anyone even do multiplayer if they cant show off their best pantheon faction, item crafts, ranks, or custom realm to other players??? Come on, guys.
 
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I admit we can be in agreement about a lot of balancing issues, but it's really hard to take Cody seriously by the way he communicates.
Besides, I will only listen to the opinions of people who played more than 3,044.5 hours anyway... ;)

Eh... Cody can be abbrassive at times, don't get me wrong, but they aren't the worse person around.

Though he does seem to snap at people at times, defensive over being a multiplayer player.
 
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"1 vs 1 me bro"
I asked him to join a multiplayer match. I never said anything about a 1v1.
I merely want him to experience the problems with the game first hand.

Eh... Cody can be abbrassive at times, don't get me wrong, but they aren't the worse person around.

Though he does seem to snap at people at times, defensive over being a multiplayer player.
I have grown defensive because we get attitude from people all the time just for existing.

People like Astronimo who literally say they wish multiplayer would die off.
People like Xerberus and Balthazar who think MP experience means nothing.
People like Silent who just disagree with everything for the sake of disagreeing.

Notice how throughout this entire thread there are basically a few people playing antagonist.
There's 4 people 24x7 downvoting posts and just generally going against any examples I give.
As well as 2 people who just press X all the time but never make a single post here, ever.

Then there's 3 people being somewhere in the middle of it all. Spread out in their reactions/posts.

And finally, we have 7 people who have voiced their agreement via reactions and/or posts.
I am not going to screenshot my feed with their names, that would feel against ToS to me.

The point of it all is that we have a couple people being extremely loud and dogpiling the posts.
When in reality, I can see from reactions and posts that there is at least a 50/50 split in the thread.

So if people can stop hating on multiplayer, or a community, or a person for one minute...
Then maybe a productive conversation other than 4 people screaming at me can happen.

I'll (re)start it by posting videos, so I don't have to type hours worth of explanation for everyone.
These videos are from the vanilla communities I told you my community has played and spoken with.
I either fully agree with them or at least for 90%, enough to make it so the details don't matter.

Guthuk:

WinSlaya & Walker (same community):

Obviously a few things have changed with regards to the older videos since the Ogre Update.
So. If you want a deep-dive, there's around 20 hours of content for you to go watch.
 
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People like Xerberus and Balthazar who think MP experience means nothing.
Where I say that ? You want to be expert in this game you are not even able to analyse arguments of others. I repeat, where I say that ? : ) If you don't find, I consider you are just a troll and in this case I lose my time. So it will be quick.
 
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People like Silent who just disagree with everything but give no counter arguments..
You were the one that went to talk to me over just the fact that I had stated that multiplayer WITH MODS can muddle Triumph’s data gathering and then you went on an ongoing rant that MP players are superior to SP players and anyone that doesn’t agree with you 100% is just wrong.

To reiterate, people are free to play with mods all they want, specially when the studio supports a mod community. All I asked was for you to understand why proper data gathering needs to be without mods but I guess you have some past trauma that you can not let go anyone to disagree with you.
 
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