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Byzantium vs Eastern Roman Empire?

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Yeah, I prefer "Eastern Roman Empire" much more than "Byzantine Empire" and I'm very grateful for that option, but would prefer "Roman Empire" even more because of the provided (I believe quite logical) arguments. That's it.

And suddenly there's a lot of hate because of that, from people who "don't care at all about that".
 
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who is ranting exactly, im curious, all i can see is people who like it and might have a different name to throw in and people complaining that we talk about this. wich to me is very odd behavior. They did call themselfes Roman Empire in english translations terms of modern day. But Either is fine really. I personally like the term Rhomanoi because it implies the greek origin. But its not a big deal.
 
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Austregisel said:
it was not me that made the analogy, and yes not even medieval french people called France to be west francia, you seem to be here complaining a lot about something you don't care about because it's an option and not something mandatory.
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I prefer Byzantium as a name, but I don't mind it being an option; that one bad faith analogy just pisses me off enough I felt compelled to call it out.
Aquila SPQR said:
So we should continue using and promoting bad name because a lot of people use bad name? Maybe we can... I don't know... let them learn the proper one instead? Then we wouldn't need historians telling people "ok, so the 'Byzantine Empire' wasn't really called 'Byzantine'" so often.

I'll still play it even if it were called "Helleno-Lacedaemonian Empire of Istanbul", but it'd be nice if it had the best name possible.

Or maybe it's like that so that the player would be able, with one click, change it to "[Proper] Roman Empire" after conquering specific provinces.
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I think it doesn't really matter. If you translate what most Spanish, Portuguese, and French speakers in the Americas call citizens of the USA, it translates to "United Staters" whereas citizens of the USA almost exclusively refer to ourselves as Americans. They are ultimately just two different names for the same people and everyone knows who you're talking about, even if Latinx folks find it arrogant of us to claim the name of the whole continents.
That's perhaps a loose analogy (still better than West Frankia), but even without that: the point of language is to convey meaning. Words change over time. There is no 'correct' way to use English; if everyone understands what something means, then that's what that thing means. Linguistic prescriptivism is unhelpful and annoying; feel free to refer to the ERE as the Roman Empire, I won't stop you because I know what you mean. But you & everyone else also know what I mean when I say the Byzantine Empire, so pretty much by the definition of language it's valid. The Byzantines and Romans are all gone, so there's no-one around to be 'offended' by it.

EDIT: sorry prismatic marcus, you posted the warning about topic as I was writing this. I won't respond further.
 
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I prefer Byzantine Empire. Sounds regal.
Can't wait for a united Iberia by Portugal to be called Lusitania. Then the floodgates will open.
 
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Aquila SPQR said:
Because if you do something, do it right. What's the point in naming it "Eastern Roman Empire" when:

1. it wasn't used in that time, so naming it like that is as anachronistic as "Byzantine Empire" (replacing wrong name with a wrong name)
2. it makes no sense since there is no "Western Roman Empire" in the game
3. it also uses an additional word which is simply unnecessary and wastes space

Should we call France "West Francia" then?
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as I myself prefer the name basileia ton rhomaion, the Western Empire certainly existed, because in 972 Otto proposed to the Byzantine Empire the return of the conquered lands in Italy in exchange for mutual recognition of imperial titles. This arrangement was sealed by the marriage of Otto II to Princess Theophano, a relative of the Byzantine Emperor John I Tzimiskes.
 
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Liquid Ghost said:
This thread is devolving into the exact type of ranting the addition of the game rule is trying to prevent...
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I don't see any ranting. Its people with different opinions talking, while not attacking each other.
 
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ero_sk said:
But we didn't discuss yet what will be the default option showing in that menu... Byzantium or Eastern Roman Empire, hmm?
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The "Proper Name" option of course..

Other options we may or may not include.

- Minor Ottoman Roadblock
- Miklagård
- Pre-Third Rome
- Center of Civilization
- Venetian Property
 
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Johan said:
I don't see any ranting. Its people with different opinions talking, while not attacking each other.
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Tbf I do think that the people who are disliking this change or that preferred "Byzantine" are being incredibly condescending towards those that are pleased with this change.
 
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Eruth said:
If you translate what most Spanish, Portuguese, and French speakers in the Americas call citizens of the USA, it translates to "United Staters"
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USA folks we call them Americanos. Which translates to Americans. Not United Staters. That makes no sense.
 
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Eastern Roman Empire makes sense a little bit if you want to distinguish "Roman Empire" as a formable. Historically, nobody was using that name before 1453, and before that "Greek Empire" or "Empire of Constantinople" (among others) was used in the West and "Rhomania" or "Empire of the Romans" in the East.

Still, if the game is to be inspired by M&T somewhat, why not use the same name for Byzantine Empire and culture of the people living there that they used? They had good reasons for their choices. Just saying....

As for confusion, history is confusing. These sorts of games are a great opportunity to teach history, not the popular notion of history. M&T team understands this, I think.
 
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I could do without the sarcasm in the description (and the Roman Empire before the western portion fell had the capitol in places besides Rome at several points), but it's nice that there's at least a way in-game to have a popular country not be called something completely anachronistic that was used as a slur to delegitimise them after they were gone. Even if Byzantine Empire does sound really cool if you ignore that it's wrong and was coined out of spite.
 
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Sete said:
USA folks we call them Americanos. Which translates to Americans. Not United Staters. That makes no sense.
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My spanish teacher always insists on "estadounidense" or so, for USA'ian
 
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