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C.O.R.E HOI - Italy

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Originally posted by Atruejedi
MateDow,

I (and perhaps a friend of mine) would be glad to rewrite some of the events if you're serious. Can we just say what event it pertains to and then post the text in the country forum? We're not exactly good event editors... :eek:
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what are you trying to do, rewrite the event, OR rewrite the text of the event? ;)
 
Re: re: Events

Originally posted by mvsnconsolegene
I think I'm going to take a break from writing events and perhaps focus on the 1984 Mod for a bit. I just realized that I've posted 24! Maybe I should round it up to 25...hmmmm :)

No...definately not. If you guys need any help with anything else though I'll still be lurking around.

- MVSN
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ok, mail received... i will see if i can fix the problem with irq.csv... :D
 
C.O.R.E.

Well, if you need anything just send me an email. I'd be happy to help out with anything I could, not only the events I wrote. So if you need help testing the new C.O.R.E. when it is ready or anything I would be very happy to pitch in.

- MVSN

P.S. I just ordered a very expensive collection of books regarding Italy during the war. Information, specifically, on the divisions and commanders, etc. etc. When I get them, I'll see what I can dig up on the RSI Regime.
 
Originally posted by Atruejedi
Generalisimo,

Simply the text of the event. Add a little style ;)
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well, some people have talked about that, but nobody have helped until now... :rolleyes:

well, here it is the structure i recommend:

ID: XXXX
new_title: "bla bla bla...."
new_desc: "bla bla bla...."

simple, no? :D
 
Here is a link to some excellent OOB, leader name, and unit names for ITaly. Hurin has done some fantastic research. I would like to suggest including this info as appropriate into CORE.

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101312

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101314

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101315



Note especially his insights into relative performance of units. Maybe some country specific unit bonuses and penalties can get built in? higher visibility on ships, sub penalties on attacks ....
 
Italy had some quite decent modern artillery designs being made available in the time frame the game starts or a little after just a matter of getting them produced and this would fall under building divisions and tech already in the game, no?

Some I can think of off the top of my head.
81mm brandt mortar(French design)
cannone da 75/32 field gun
obice da 75/18 howitzer
cannone da 75/46 aa/at gun
cannone da 90/53 aa/at gun
cannone da 105/28(French design)
cannone da 149/40 field gun

The problem being that the modern implements had a nasty habit of being sold elsewhere for money. South America, Japan, Sweden, Finland, Hungary, Romania, etc.

At the least this should be coupled with another event should be added for the modernization of doctrines later in the war. Most of these should be found in manual changes by 1942, iirc. Italy was geared for alpine ww1.5 in which case binary divisions and some weapons choices would have actually been good bets. However the Germans changed this a bit.

edit: Personally I would consider Alpini as elite before militia divisions and even to me that mostly falls on the shoulders of the GGFF if any.
 
Italy had some quite decent modern artillery designs
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Italy had plenty of good DESIGNS. What the average infantry had was a very different story.

Yes, the alpini were very elite. So were the marines. So were the carbineri in their limited military roles.

Umm...not an event. The player is able to do what you say if he so wishes. That is in there. A Doctrine (Revamping the Italian Army). that can be researched after the first event triggers.

Italy was geared for alpine ww1.5 in which case binary divisions and some weapons choices would have actually been good bets
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Umm......granted but effectiveness and size are two different things. The fact that they had only 66% of the men that others did cannot be talked away by limited increases in effectiveness. The Italian army repeatedly treated it's divisions as on par with other European divisions and that is just....stupid. I had considered adding bonuses to the alpini; that is up for discussion, I didn't want to go there. And 40 yr old weapons is not a good choice in any circumstance. I don't see how shotty barrels could be a bonus. If actual italian artillery got out to the units then fine, but it never did in the early stages of the war.

However, this being said you are right about a few things. 1. The Alpini need to be adjusted, I am wondering how. 2. BIG 2....is the Bersiglari. Light Very Mobile Infantry, how can they be modded without adding a completely new type of unit. For the history of that argument go pack a few pages on the Tech Ideas thread......so....what perks should the Italian Elite Unit Doctrine add to simulate these?

Thoughts?

- MVSN
 
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Originally posted by mvsnconsolegene
2. BIG 2....is the Bersiglari. Light Very Mobile Infantry, how can they be modded without adding a completely new type of unit. For the history of that argument go pack a few pages on the Tech Ideas thread......so....what perks should the Italian Elite Unit Doctrine add to simulate these?

Thoughts?

- MVSN
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In next version of CORE all countries can research Elite infantry, that are units with an higher organization values, they are German Waffen-SS, Russian Guard divisions, American Rangers and... Italian Bersaglieri ;) and many others!
 
In next version of CORE all countries can research Elite infantry, that are units with an higher organization values, they are German Waffen-SS, Russian Guard divisions, American Rangers and... Italian Bersaglieri and many others!
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Is that a fact? I had heard that they would not be implemented. If that is the case then I will forget about the bersiglari.

- MVSN

P.S. Italy should already have that tech as of 36.
 
Originally posted by mvsnconsolegene
Is that a fact? I had heard that they would not be implemented. If that is the case then I will forget about the bersiglari.

- MVSN

P.S. Italy should already have that tech as of 36.
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No, it's not.


@PKunzipper: Elites are prepared for those files simply for comparison - since there is serious problem with AI use of those units, as well as historical reasons (no massive use of "elites" in any other army then GER and sometimes SOV).

@mvsnconsolegene: I'll check your version of ITA army development and then we discuss the results, ok?
 
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
@PKunzipper: Elites are prepared for those files simply for comparison - since there is serious problem with AI use of those units, as well as historical reasons (no massive use of "elites" in any other army then GER and sometimes SOV).
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Acc.... I heard there was a discussion about Elite units, but I missed it, and seeing the elite unit on the units and model files...
However I can understand what the problem is...

What do you think about adding an event for countries that had Elite units that remove x "standard divisions" and put on the deployement pool x "Elite divisions"?
 
Originally posted by Pkunzipper
What do you think about adding an event for countries that had Elite units that remove x "standard divisions" and put on the deployement pool x "Elite divisions"?
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If that was possible it would be a good idea. Unfortunatly, you can't target a specific type of unit for removal (you are just as likely to kill a cruiser as an infantry unit) and you can't tell it what model of unit to create. It just makes the highest model number available. MDow
 
Well.... Then the event should make the country pay in supply points for the new "Elite divisions". Currently infantry path is:
0 "Standard Infantry"
1 "Elite Infantry"
2 " '44 Infantry"

If we change it in:
0 "Standard"
1 " '44 Pattern"
2 "Elite" (that cannot be built by AI because it isn't activated by any tech)

the elite unit event could work, maybe also activating the tech and deactivating it at the end of the event...

What do you think?
 
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Originally posted by Pkunzipper
Acc.... I heard there was a discussion about Elite units, but I missed it, and seeing the elite unit on the units and model files...
However I can understand what the problem is...

What do you think about adding an event for countries that had Elite units that remove x "standard divisions" and put on the deployement pool x "Elite divisions"?
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I understand, that you would like to "upgrade" units? It's a bit problematic, since:

1) removing units is random, so it's possible that you will remove units straight away from the battle, one-div garrison or from the ship heading for the invasion site. :(

2) adding units always adds the best one, so in case of countries that got Elite doctrine (GER) it will be always elite, and in case of other - always plain division. The problem is, that GER never "upgraded" units from Wehrmacht to Waffen-SS (or at least I never heard about something like that). It's more like Soviet Union way gaining elites - when you prove you are good, you become guard. There is a problem, though - see point 1. It's quite possible, that this "upgrade" will remove unit from vital place, or do other weird thing to the current units.

From historical point of view, only GER, SOV and possibly ITA (but still I'm not sure how many bersaglieri divisions were in reality used) got right to claim that they had division sized elite infantry/mot/mech units. And only in case of GER and ITA those units were elitary from the start (in Red Army it was sort of "battle honors"). Other nations got elites in form of moutain troops, paras and marines, which are really tough combatants with raised org and all the technological upgrades.
 
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
(...)From historical point of view, only GER, SOV and possibly ITA (but still I'm not sure how many bersaglieri divisions were in reality used) got right to claim that they had division sized elite infantry/mot/mech units. And only in case of GER and ITA those units were elitary from the start (in Red Army it was sort of "battle honors"). Other nations got elites in form of moutain troops, paras and marines, which are really tough combatants with raised org and all the technological upgrades.
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Oh my, oh my... Kalasz wlasne gniazdo... Have you forgot about polish 1&2 Dywizja Legionow?

Well, partially I'm joking and partially not. They were the creme de la creme of the Polish Army and always got the best and most recent equipment. And were considered elite as well.

Having in mind all of the above, we should set the exact level on what such an elite unit should be. Is it 1939 elite, or is it 1945 elite...
Cheers
 
I think Elite units should have higher base organization value and maybe 1 points more of Soft/hard attack to represent better equipment...

@Copper:
Maybe you missed the post of mine immediately before your last one.
Since upgrading is not possible for all the reasons you described, I think it is possible to add those elite troops with events. Since events are manually made, Major power allowed of having Elite units should no have particular tech...
The event should give them temporarily a tech that allow them (with a CODE = 2, so they are the highest model), after that some units should be added to force pool with an exchange of supply points and manpower as well and finally the tech should be removed, so the player and/or the AI cannot build Elite units.
 
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