C.O.R.E. HOI - Naval Mod

[Chaplain]

The KGV's are treaty battleships. The Nelson and Rodney fit is this category there armament and armor are close to the NCs. They are bit slower though.

So ... that means they're listed in the game as KGV's?

So ... KGV=UK Treaty Battleship?

If so, thanks.

 

[steveh11]

Based on G3 battlecruiser design, reduced to comply with
Washington Treaty. Experienced machinery and gun reliability
problems; workmanship was not of the highest quality. Although
they were of modern design, the speed was very low, limiting their
value.

Off topic for a moment: one of my favourite books is "Make a Signal" by Cpt Jack Broome. In it he recounts, via the signals sent between various commands and ships, various episodes, especially of the first and second world wars. During the Bismark hunt, KGV and Rodney - which was badly in need of refit - rendevous'ed in mid-Atlantic.

KGV to Rodney: "What is your best speed?"
Rodney to KGV: "22 knots."
...Pause, during which Rodney gradually falls back...
Rodney to KGV: "Afraid your 22 knots is a little faster than mine."

Steve.

 

[unmerged(25901)]

Where The Hell Is The Kongo

Hi Guys

Just started playing japan with the latest mod 7.1 and the IJNS Battlecruiser/Fast Battleship Kongo is not in the game ??

This has happened before in a previous mod I believe

Any thoughts

cheers
Easty

 

[unmerged(25901)]

Where The Hell Is The Kongo

Hi Guys

Just started playing japan with the latest mod 7.1 and the IJNS Battlecruiser/Fast Battleship Kongo is not in the game ??

This has happened before in a previous mod I believe

I can't beleive they have the old Izumo class armouered cruisers of the early 1900's in the game but didn't put the Kongo in real weird ??

Any thoughts

cheers
Easty

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Woah, you're right, all the other Kongo class BB's are in the game but she isn't! Thanks, unless of course MateDow has a reason for this, but I think it was just a mistake of some kind. I haven't played as Japan yet so I must have missed this.

 

[MateDow]

Kongo

Oops o

She was supposed to be in refit. I was very deliberate to not put her in a task force and then forgot to put her in the construction area. Sorry about that. MDow

 

[Chaplain]

search statistics

Hi MateDow,

Based on my conversations with Nicus re: sea searches, it has become clear to me that the chance of detection for naval units in the same sea zone is (pardon my passion) ludicrously high. According to the formula, there's essentially no chance of an exciting Bismarck or Graf Spee scenario.

The formula itself feels pretty simple, and I wouldnt recommend changing it. But have you considered an across-the-board reduction of Visibility values for ships? My recommendation would be to leave the merchant/transport values high, but cut warship visibility by half. That way, the possibility of a true raider strategy by the Germans, or the UK against the Japanese, becomes possible. Thoughts?

 

[EasilyConfused]

The formula itself feels pretty simple, and I wouldnt recommend changing it. But have you considered an across-the-board reduction of Visibility values for ships? My recommendation would be to leave the merchant/transport values high, but cut warship visibility by half. That way, the possibility of a true raider strategy by the Germans, or the UK against the Japanese, becomes possible. Thoughts?

Worth trying out, although I have the feeling this won't be easy to correctly modify.

 

[MateDow]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the visibility only comes into play with submarines. I don't remember where I saw it though.

We can lower the visibility of all units though and see if it makes a difference. MDow

 

[Chaplain]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the visibility only comes into play with submarines. I don't remember where I saw it though. MDow

Judging from the unit statistics and personal experience, detection is not for subs only - else why do units have a separate rating for sub detection?

In fact, in my personal experience against a low-tech UK, you can drop a surface raider out in the South or Central Atlantic and they'll have a hard time finding it - especially in bad weather.

But if you can tell me how to change all the visibility ratings. I'll 'beta' this mod in CORE 0.71 and let you know what happens ... ?

NOTE: I'm really passionate about the naval game, since my favorite parts of WW2 wargaming are the German raider strategy, the Med convoy conflicts, and the Pacific naval battles, so this is "fun" for me.

 

[MateDow]

Judging from the unit statistics and personal experience, detection is not for subs only - else why do units have a separate rating for sub detection?

The visibility rating for subs determines how vulnerable the submarine is to damage. If you lower the visibility for the sub you will make it less likely to be damaged. It doesn't effect how likely the sub is to be spotted. It doesn't make sense to me, but that is how it works.

But if you can tell me how to change all the visibility ratings. I'll 'beta' this mod in CORE 0.71 and let you know what happens ... ?

Go into the DB folder in the CORE folder, then go into the units folder. Make copies of all of the files that you are going to 'play' with. In there you will find files named battleship, cruiser and such. Did I mention, make copies? When you open the file you will see the individual models listed. One of the lines will say "visibility = xxx" that is the line that you are looking to change. I wouldn't recommend changing the submarine numbers, it could have some interesting effects (like a single German submarine sinking the entire Royal Navy).

NOTE: I'm really passionate about the naval game, since my favorite parts of WW2 wargaming are the German raider strategy, the Med convoy conflicts, and the Pacific naval battles, so this is "fun" for me.

Have fun finding a good balance. If you find a balance that appears to work, e-mail me the files that you have changed at dow_mike at hotmail dot com. I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with. MDow

 

[MateDow]

I've always been confused as to why sloops take as long to build as armoured cruisers? Shouldn't they be faster to build then a protected or light cruiser?

This is a method to prevent minor nations from building tons of sloops. There is no way to prevent a country from building sloops. That means that nations like Haiti and Persia can build warships that they wouldn't have historically. So to prevent that (or at least penalize it) the build time for sloops (and MTB squadrons) is larger than it should be for the strength of the unit. MDow

 

[MateDow]

Z-Plan Events

OK, I have been putting some thought into what this chain of events needs, and I figured that I would bounce it off of y'all just to make sure that I have everything.

The first two events will be for the construction of Bismarck and Tirpitz. Those two event will fire on the day they were laid down. The difficulty with this is the fact that they will be built faster than they were historically. But they will have a much larger impact on the German economy due to their increased cost (16 IC vs 9 ).

I am still looking for the exact date of Hitler's Z-Plan declaration. I have narrowed it down to sometime in late 1938. It will have two choices. The A choice will be to build the fleet. I am debating giving a small dissent benefit and maybe an industry benefit (still looking at effects) to entice a human player to say yes to the Z-Plan.

Here is the schedule that I have found (extrapolated)...

November 1938: 2 CA, 3 SS
July 1939: 1 BB, 1 CV, 4 SS
November 1939: 1 BB, 4 SS
May 1940: 1 BB, 2 CA, 5 SS
July 1940: 1 BB, 2 CA, 1 CV, 5 SS
May 1942: 1 BB, 4 CA, 1 CV, 6 SS
July 1942: 1 BB, 1 CV, 6 SS
May 1944: 4 CA, 7 SS

BB = Battleship
CA = Cruiser
CV = Carrier
SS = Submarine

I am debating whether the primary choice should be to accept the construction or not. If the primary choice is to accept the construction each time it comes up, then the AI will be saddled with a lot of naval construction. If not, the AI won't have a navy :wacko:

I wanted to get all of your opinions on how this should run. I am hesitant to add this event in there because it sets a precedence of controling the building schedule for the game. Something that I have been avoiding for a long time. It is a historical set of events though... and most players seem to forget about building a navy after the beginning of the war from what I hear. Let me know. MDow

 

[Kevin Mc Carthy]

OK, I have been putting some thought into what this chain of events needs, and I figured that I would bounce it off of y'all just to make sure that I have everything.

The first two events will be for the construction of Bismarck and Tirpitz. Those two event will fire on the day they were laid down. The difficulty with this is the fact that they will be built faster than they were historically. But they will have a much larger impact on the German economy due to their increased cost (16 IC vs 9 ).

I am still looking for the exact date of Hitler's Z-Plan declaration. I have narrowed it down to sometime in late 1938. It will have two choices. The A choice will be to build the fleet. I am debating giving a small dissent benefit and maybe an industry benefit (still looking at effects) to entice a human player to say yes to the Z-Plan.

Here is the schedule that I have found (extrapolated)...

November 1938: 2 CA, 3 SS
July 1939: 1 BB, 1 CV, 4 SS
November 1939: 1 BB, 4 SS
May 1940: 1 BB, 2 CA, 5 SS
July 1940: 1 BB, 2 CA, 1 CV, 5 SS
May 1942: 1 BB, 4 CA, 1 CV, 6 SS
July 1942: 1 BB, 1 CV, 6 SS
May 1944: 4 CA, 7 SS

BB = Battleship
CA = Cruiser
CV = Carrier
SS = Submarine

I am debating whether the primary choice should be to accept the construction or not. If the primary choice is to accept the construction each time it comes up, then the AI will be saddled with a lot of naval construction. If not, the AI won't have a navy :wacko:

I wanted to get all of your opinions on how this should run. I am hesitant to add this event in there because it sets a precedence of controling the building schedule for the game. Something that I have been avoiding for a long time. It is a historical set of events though... and most players seem to forget about building a navy after the beginning of the war from what I hear. Let me know. MDow

Matedow,

Look at the implementation of the Ural Bombers chain for ideas. With the Plan Z chain, I would think there should be a series of events with an 'A' chance if Germany was at peace with England or Germany occupies London, but a 'B' if at war with England. I suggest slipping the July 1939: 1 BB, 1 CV, 4 SS event till after Sept 1, 1939. This would be a little late but would not likely toss in a lot of ships into the AI build when they are going to war.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Well historically Z Plan was started only a few months before the war, and as far as I can tell, the earliest ship laid down was Schlachtschiff H on 15.07.1939 unless you want to include the Graf Zeppelin in Z Plan which was laid down in December 28th 1936.

 

[Ghost_dk]

link on german carriers

i dont know if any of you guys know about this site but it lists some interesting plans of germany for their carrier progam. Maybe some of it can be used for the Z-plan or other stuff.

anyway Here it is

Ghost_dk

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Yat Sen's sister ship Yung Chien is missing from the game, and Ghost_dk, that's a very useful site!

 

[Semi-Lobster]

I've been playing as Poland and I noticed all the destroyer flotillias are named after individual ships, is this right!?!? Isn't the destroyer flotilla supposed to represent 5-7 destroyers?

 

[Semi-Lobster]

China needs some basica naval tech. She was capable of making small gunboats. One example of this was the Italian gunboat Ermanno Carlotto, which was built by Shanghai Dock and Engineering Company. She was only 218t and armed with two 76mm but I'm only using her as an example as to why China needs some basic level 0 naval tech.

 

[MateDow]

China needs some basica naval tech. She was capable of making small gunboats. One example of this was the Italian gunboat Ermanno Carlotto, which was built by Shanghai Dock and Engineering Company. She was only 218t and armed with two 76mm but I'm only using her as an example as to why China needs some basic level 0 naval tech.

She does have some techs. She has 10 of the basic naval techs. That gives her enough techs to build some ships with not too much research. She also has the doctrine of admiralty. I don't think she needs any additional naval tech at this time. She has the ability to build MTBs and sloops which is historical. They take a long time, but China wasn't fast at building ships. They have all of the pre-requisites to research 500 ton destroyers. MDow