C.O.R.E. HOI - Naval Mod

[Agelastus]

You're right, I can't find anything on a KXIX class sub and I agree that it should be changed to 019.

Possibly because they were designated as KXIX and KXX when they were begun, but then the Dutch discontinued the practise of numbering submarines on a "Home Waters"/"East Indies" basis (O and K) and changed them to O19 and O20..................

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Possibly because they were designated as KXIX and KXX when they were begun, but then the Dutch discontinued the practise of numbering submarines on a "Home Waters"/"East Indies" basis (O and K) and changed them to O19 and O20..................

o Oh, they where renamed due to the Dutch numbering system for their subs.

 

[Crazyhorse]

It does seem rather odd to have only one. I know the Gouvernementsmarine was incharge of things such as transports. Maybe if you did some research into you can help seeing as how I can speak Dutch.

Transportships:

Koningin Emma – 4135 t – 24 knots
Prinses Beatrix – 4315 t – 24 knots
Prinses Juliana – 2908 t – 22 knots

5 other transportships from 129 t to 400 t for a total of 1456 t.

Logements & depotships(of which several we're used for trooptransport):

Batavier IV – 1858 t – 15 knots
Mecklenburg – 2907 t – 22 knots
Oranje Nassua – 2885 t – 22 knots
Plancius – 5995 t – 15.5 knots
Stuyvesant – 4202 t – 12 knots
Tjibadak – 7803 t – 12 knots
Westernland – 16231 t – 16.5 knots
Op ten Noort – 6076 t - 15.5 knots (Hospitalship)

And around 55.000 t of fueltransportships

Regarding the Gouvernementsmarine they had around 15 ships in use for the militairy from 600 tons till 1018 tons, almost 90% of these ships we're armed with a 7.5 cm gun or 2 3.7cm guns

This is not all the ships that we’re used. Some of these ships were used by the militairy from 1940 en some were even given back to their owners during the war.

This is without any merchantmarine cargoships of which there were off course many more.

It’s quite hard to check all this but I think that this does show that a second and possibly even a thirt transportship would be correct.

Of which class these should be is up to you guys!

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Transportships:

Koningin Emma – 4135 t – 24 knots
Prinses Beatrix – 4315 t – 24 knots
Prinses Juliana – 2908 t – 22 knots

5 other transportships from 129 t to 400 t for a total of 1456 t.

Logements & depotships(of which several we're used for trooptransport):

Batavier IV – 1858 t – 15 knots
Mecklenburg – 2907 t – 22 knots
Oranje Nassua – 2885 t – 22 knots
Plancius – 5995 t – 15.5 knots
Stuyvesant – 4202 t – 12 knots
Tjibadak – 7803 t – 12 knots
Westernland – 16231 t – 16.5 knots
Op ten Noort – 6076 t - 15.5 knots (Hospitalship)

And around 55.000 t of fueltransportships.% of these ships we're armed with a 7.5 cm gun or 2 3.7cm guns

I'll have to ask MateDow if these are the ships already represented in the 1e Transport Smaldeel. But I think there should at least be two then, one being a model 0 transport though.

Regarding the Gouvernementsmarine they had around 15 ships in use for the militairy from 600 tons till 1018 tons, almost 90% of these ships we're armed with a 7.5 cm gun or 2 3.7cm guns

This is not all the ships that we’re used. Some of these ships were used by the militairy from 1940 en some were even given back to their owners during the war.

This is without any merchantmarine cargoships of which there were off course many more.

It’s quite hard to check all this but I think that this does show that a second and possibly even a thirt transportship would be correct.

Of which class these should be is up to you guys!

I think they could all be grouped into one or two 500t destroyer flotillas in Indonesia at half strength.

 

[Crazyhorse]

I think they could all be grouped into one or two 500t destroyer flotillas in Indonesia at half strength.

What about one Auxilairy cruiser? I'm not sure what you're specifications are for that kind of ship?

 

[Semi-Lobster]

What about one Auxilairy cruiser? I'm not sure what you're specifications are for that kind of ship?

Auxillary cruisers are supposed to be individual ships and I've done some research on these ships and all where lightly armed and wheren't very good. They range from over 1000t to less then 300t

 

[Crazyhorse]

Auxillary cruisers are supposed to be individual ships and I've done some research on these ships and all where lightly armed and wheren't very good. They range from over 1000t to less then 300t

Ok.

You're right I can't say that those gouvernementships we're the best available.........

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Ok.

You're right I can't say that those gouvernementships we're the best available.........

This is why they should also only be at half strength to, they could not even be compared to a real flotilla. If we also combine all the auxillary minelayers and gouvernementships and put in twice the amount of ships into a flotilla (10 ships per flotilla) they still couldn't compare to a real 500t destroyer flotilla

 

[MateDow]

Transportships:

And around 55.000 t of fueltransportships

I think that another transport flotilla is probably in order. If you can provide some data on some Dutch passenger liners, that would be a good way to add some transport capacity for the Netherlands.

Regarding the Gouvernementsmarine they had around 15 ships in use for the militairy from 600 tons till 1018 tons, almost 90% of these ships we're armed with a 7.5 cm gun or 2 3.7cm guns

I have a list of the patrol vessels for the Gouvernementsmarine here and this is what I have found...

There were 8 vessels launched between 1922 and 1930. The largest of these were the Sirius and the Wega launched in 1922. They were armed with a single 76mm (3 inch) gun and displaced 936 tons. Two of them had no guns (Fomalhout and Merel). Arend and Valk were the most heavily armed with two 76mm (3 inch) guns and 2 machine guns. They displaced 775 tons. The final two were the Fazant and Reiger with a single 76mm (3 inch) gun and displacing 623 tons. They were all very slow (12-13 knots). We could include them as a single flotilla of 500 ton destroyers with minimal attack and slow speed.

This is not all the ships that we’re used. Some of these ships were used by the militairy from 1940 en some were even given back to their owners during the war.

The remainder of the vessels were survey vessels, harbor (harbour?) tenders and various other auxilliaries.

This is without any merchantmarine cargoships of which there were off course many more.

It’s quite hard to check all this but I think that this does show that a second and possibly even a thirt transportship would be correct.

Of which class these should be is up to you guys!

The Dutch merchant marine is accounted for with the transports that are a part of their convoy system. They are the unremarkable hulls that transport supplies, fuel and resources back and forth. I am willing to give the Dutch their passenger liners with will boost their ability to move troops back and forth from the DEI (Dutch East Indies). The new second transport flotilla (smaldeel I have to assume this is proper Dutch) will also be model 1 which will match the exsisting group. The reason for a single additional group is the number of standard ships in a transport flotilla is somewhere around 15 (someone calculated the number of ships required to carry a division, it wasn't me) and the ships that you have listed makes two groups 'feel' right. MDow

 

[Crazyhorse]

I think that another transport flotilla is probably in order. If you can provide some data on some Dutch passenger liners, that would be a good way to add some transport capacity for the Netherlands.

Do you still want some data for the passenge liners? Because you already said below that you will add a second transport. Or is this for a thirt one?

I have a list of the patrol vessels for the Gouvernementsmarine here and this is what I have found...

There were 8 vessels launched between 1922 and 1930. The largest of these were the Sirius and the Wega launched in 1922. They were armed with a single 76mm (3 inch) gun and displaced 936 tons. Two of them had no guns (Fomalhout and Merel). Arend and Valk were the most heavily armed with two 76mm (3 inch) guns and 2 machine guns. They displaced 775 tons. The final two were the Fazant and Reiger with a single 76mm (3 inch) gun and displacing 623 tons. They were all very slow (12-13 knots). We could include them as a single flotilla of 500 ton destroyers with minimal attack and slow speed.

In my book the Merel had 7.5cm gun and the Formalhout 2x 3.7cm guns and did the Aldebaran(not in your list) had no gun. I also have the Albatros II 807 t, Bellatrix 773 t, Canopus 773 t, Deneb 773 t, Eridanus 996 t & Gemma 845 t.
I agree on the slow speed and the minimal attack value.

One Flotilla would be nice 2 would be overdoing it seeing their speed and attack value.

The Dutch merchant marine is accounted for with the transports that are a part of their convoy system. They are the unremarkable hulls that transport supplies, fuel and resources back and forth. I am willing to give the Dutch their passenger liners with will boost their ability to move troops back and forth from the DEI (Dutch East Indies). The new second transport flotilla (smaldeel I have to assume this is proper Dutch) will also be model 1 which will match the exsisting group. The reason for a single additional group is the number of standard ships in a transport flotilla is somewhere around 15 (someone calculated the number of ships required to carry a division, it wasn't me) and the ships that you have listed makes two groups 'feel' right. MDow

Smaldeel is correct.

As always nice doing business with you guys.

PS: semi lobster you have a PM.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

During the war but before the invasion of the low countries the Dutch government started, or at least, planned, construction of 15 auxillary cruisers, none of which where completed. The liners used where completed in 1938-1939 though. Maybe there can be a Dutch naval event where a bunch of auxillary cruisers are put into the build queue

 

[Crazyhorse]

During the war but before the invasion of the low countries the Dutch government started, or at least, planned, construction of 15 auxillary cruisers, none of which where completed. The liners used where completed in 1938-1939 though. Maybe there can be a Dutch naval event where a bunch of auxillary cruisers are put into the build queue

Hmm not aware of this. Do you have a link to a site or the name of a book you got this from.

Perhaps another event? In September 1939 a plan was developed to enhance the navy with three Battlecruisers of 28.000 tons. This plan was approved on 30 april 1940 and construction could begin as not the war broke out. Those ships would have very heavilly armed in comparison with their tonnage. At least if you'd compare them with the Gneisenau.Not much information can be found about this class because it hadn't even got a name and the last specs which are known are from april 1940.

I know hardly anyone plays the game as the netherlands but all those events are still nice and even usefull if you have them as your allies.

 

[Crazyhorse]

During the war but before the invasion of the low countries the Dutch government started, or at least, planned, construction of 15 auxillary cruisers, none of which where completed. The liners used where completed in 1938-1939 though. Maybe there can be a Dutch naval event where a bunch of auxillary cruisers are put into the build queue

BTW , Then there should also be an event for the creation of the Eendracht class cruisers.

Í'm willing to make those events if you lack the time. (With some help!)

 

[Semi-Lobster]

BTW , Then there should also be an event for the creation of the Eendracht class cruisers.

Í'm willing to make those events if you lack the time. (With some help!)

I don't really think we need an event for everything. The auxillary cruiser event I proposed is only because the AI never makes them!

Here is a site with the stats of the three 'Project 1940' battlecruisers here's the Dutch auxillary cruisers. This site is the one I use the most for the Dutch navy, it's very good IMO

 

[Crazyhorse]

I don't really think we need an event for everything. The auxillary cruiser event I proposed is only because the AI never makes them!

Here is a site with the stats of the three 'Project 1940' battlecruisers here's the Dutch auxillary cruisers. This site is the one I use the most for the Dutch navy, it's very good IMO

That's the site I usually use. Only never looked at the armed merchants.......................

And with the armed merchant event how many armed merchants would that represesnt in the game?

 

[Semi-Lobster]

That's the site I usually use. Only never looked at the armed merchants.......................

And with the armed merchant event how many armed merchants would that represesnt in the game?

Probably 15, of course I'm proposing the idea, I still have no idea how to make events myself! o

 

[Crazyhorse]

Probably 15, of course I'm proposing the idea, I still have no idea how to make events myself! o

15 is a lot, I'm not sure how much IC's they cost but 15 will probally take up the entire budget for the netherlands. I'd say more in the line of 3 otherwise it would occupie the economie for to long so the AI can't build anything else.

I will go through the Z-plan event and see if I can come up with an event that works. Never tried it myself either.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

15 is a lot, I'm not sure how much IC's they cost but 15 will probally take up the entire budget for the netherlands. I'd say more in the line of 3 otherwise it would occupie the economie for to long so the AI can't build anything else.

I will go through the Z-plan event and see if I can come up with an event that works. Never tried it myself either.

The cost would (I assume)be set to lower then normal, like ships in the build queue at the beginning of the game

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Can river monitors be abstracted in HoI? I was thinking about this after looking through some Soviet river monitors, some very heavily armed ships where used in this role and I was wondering of river defence can be modified with monitor techs

 

[MateDow]

During the war but before the invasion of the low countries the Dutch government started, or at least, planned, construction of 15 auxillary cruisers, none of which where completed. The liners used where completed in 1938-1939 though. Maybe there can be a Dutch naval event where a bunch of auxillary cruisers are put into the build queue

Minor difficulty...

If you make an event that builds 6 cruisers (random number) over the course of 1940 they would be treaty light cruisers assuming that there have been no upgrades in model availability. The other difficulty is that Auxilliary Cruisers are a transport model so the ships that you just had built would be medium steamers or freighters. That is the problem with building naval warships by event. If you read the Z-Plan and battleship construction events it always refers to the most advanced model. That is because of this limitation. Trust me, if I ever get the ability to specify model, I have a lot of events for minor and semi-major naval powers to represent imports of foreign ships. They are great events, but don't work as designed Keep these events in mind in case we ever get this ability. MDow