C.O.R.E. Tech Tree: Land units, techs and doctrines

[Ghost_dk]

Re: Re: tech suggestion

Originally posted by Steel


I think a case can be made for many nations about making do with makeshift material and fighting the enemy with unusual tactics ("bomb" dogs comes to mind ) so I'd rather not open that particular can of worms.

I have to agree on this one.

Otherwise id have to insist on adding the danish(only nation in the world to use this) motorycle with side wagon mounted 25mm anti tank gun

Actually this was the only weapon that seriously worried the germans when they crossed the border.

Ghost_dk

 

[MateDow]

Re: Re: Re: tech suggestion

Originally posted by Ghost_dk
I have to agree on this one.

Otherwise id have to insist on adding the danish(only nation in the world to use this) motorycle with side wagon mounted 25mm anti tank gun

Actually this was the only weapon that seriously worried the germans when they crossed the border.

Ghost_dk

I think that the is the key word in there. Denmark had more than one? MDow

 

[Halibutt]

Re: Re: Re: tech suggestion

Originally posted by Ghost_dk
(...)Otherwise id have to insist on adding the danish(only nation in the world to use this) motorycle with side wagon mounted 25mm anti tank gun. Actually this was the only weapon that seriously worried the germans when they crossed the border.

LOL Could you provide me with some links or at least a photo of this hellrider?
Cheers

 

[unmerged(18738)]

Seriously, I remember talk about this unit when I played ASL. Apparently, if they had been in numbers and the Danes as a whole hadn't fled and/or surrendered, that 25mm gun would've been a threat to whatever German armor appeared. Very *real* mobility those units had, and excellent ability to hide quickly.

Sounds funny, but it could have been an interesting kick in the nose for a few hours.

-PK

 

[unmerged(3168)]

There's an interesting discusion on what I'd class as 2nd line units going on (again re the Italians) on the General Forum it's prompted me to thing about the possibility of putting a 2nd line Infantry Divisions into CORE, like the 44 Divisions for the Germans.

Would it be possible to create a 2nd Line Infantry Division that would have slightly worse stats that reg Inf and only get about 2/3 of the tech bonus of reg Inf? I guess that this would be most apt for the French and Italians and possibly the early Soviet rifle Divs.

 

[unmerged(18202)]

Originally posted by Kiith
Would it be possible to create a 2nd Line Infantry Division that would have slightly worse stats that reg Inf and only get about 2/3 of the tech bonus of reg Inf? I guess that this would be most apt for the French and Italians and possibly the early Soviet rifle Divs.

If I understand the engine right, the AI always builds the top of the line, unfortunately. Now, if they were to modify that, it would be great. This would add a lot of realism and present some nice options, especially for countries that live in a perpetual state of po' when it comes to building units.

jkk

 

[HisMajestyBOB]

Currently in CORE militia don't get any bonuses from tech, and thus are extremely crappy even in 1936. I propose that Militia have some SA, HA and a little GD gain from techs like Light Morter, Basic Land mines, Service Rifle, AT Rifle, Adv. Tube Rocket, Basic SMG, Basic GPMG. Basically, keep Militia at about 1/3-1/2 the strength and Org of vanilla infantry divisions. This would greatly help Nationalist China (whose army comprises primarily of militia) and the USSR and Germany when they go into the "Holy Crap!" defensive ai.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by HisMajestyBOB
Currently in CORE militia don't get any bonuses from tech(...)

Which version of CORE do you use? I got plenty of bonuses to SA, SD, HA and org... It never meks them as good as infantry, but at least keeps them on the same (read - puny) level.

 

[unmerged(16031)]

Re: Re: tech suggestion

Originally posted by Steel
I'm not sure about giving them SMG from the start, but perhaps we should look at pre-reqs to ensure it's actually possible for them to reach SMG tech by 1939 (via research or if necessary events).

I think a case can be made for many nations about making do with makeshift material and fighting the enemy with unusual tactics ("bomb" dogs comes to mind ) so I'd rather not open that particular can of worms. Did you test any of these variants to see if it makes a difference in AI vs AI games?

Actually finns should get the improved sub machine gun. The Suomi SMG has been said to be the most effective sub machine gun in the whole war...anyways at least the Soviet PPsh41(or whatever it was) was based on the Suomi SMG.
And what comes to researching it by 1939...well the gun was made in the early 1920's, and improved after that but it was in use(some 4000 pieces) in Winter War.

What comes to the "Molotov's cocktail", it was produced in large amounts, and was actually the main weapon against tanks. The finns didn't have many anti-tank guns, but the Soviets lost something along 1000-2000 tanks in Winter War. Most of them were destroyed with the home made weapons.

In my opinion the finns should get a "doctorine" that increases their defense. That would represent the good morale. Also There should be some tech to increase the movement of the finnish units in forests etc., because the fact is that while Soviets moved along the roads, finnish went through the forest and swamps and encircled them.

 

[h345]

i'm playing as the US with v0.61 and i can developed all the post war tank models, shouldn't i be only allowed to developed 1 model like the other tanks

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Re: Re: Re: tech suggestion

Originally posted by Perkele
In my opinion the finns should get a "doctorine" that increases their defense. That would represent the good morale. Also There should be some tech to increase the movement of the finnish units in forests etc., because the fact is that while Soviets moved along the roads, finnish went through the forest and swamps and encircled them.

We can further rise their ability to fight in sub zero conditions and forests... Ok, I'll think of something for 0.7... but don't expect potential "world conquest tech". Simple modifier to forest/winter movement/defense will do.

 

[unmerged(18202)]

Re: Re: Re: tech suggestion

Originally posted by Perkele
In my opinion the finns should get a "doctorine" that increases their defense. That would represent the good morale. Also There should be some tech to increase the movement of the finnish units in forests etc., because the fact is that while Soviets moved along the roads, finnish went through the forest and swamps and encircled them.

I made a case awhile back for most of this as well, though the reception was tepid, so I'm glad to see you proposing this stuff here.

jkk

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Re: Re: Re: Re: tech suggestion

Originally posted by jkkelley
I made a case awhile back for most of this as well, though the reception was tepid, so I'm glad to see you proposing this stuff here.

jkk

Yeah, but soon we will make special doctrines for all the countries in game... and that's not that bad idea.

 

[unmerged(20271)]

garrison divisions

Hi,

We all have noticed that it’s sometimes difficult to set up some historical things in HoI because of supply problems. Because all the supplies have to come from the capital it is almost impossible to create a proper Vichy Army in Africa, Syria… Japan has a bad tendency to move all of its infantry from the Pacific to China…

So I would like to propose a new type of division: the garrison or fortress division.
The Garrison Division:
Low to medium strength
Supply or oil consumption: 0
Speed: 0

3 bonuses:
No need for supplies which means that some places can be defended without any problem.
The unit is not too strong to avoid breaking the equilibrium of the game.
Speed 0 means the AI will not move troops from places that should stay protected

Garrison Division should be set up at the beginning of the game and through events.

Examples:
One Garrison division in each Japanese pacific island. An event could add some more when Japan at war with USA. Some more could be added to protect Japanese initial territories like Taiwan and all the beaches in Japan main islands.

Syria and Lebanon could in the end really be Vichy territory. When Vichy is created an event adds 1 Garrison in Lebanon, 2 in Damas and 1 to protect the Syrian beach.

Once Vichy created UK could have “Territorial Army event” creating one or two Garrison Division per beach in UK. This could avoid Finland to occupy Belfast…

Italy could also have the same event once Libya Falls: “Italy protects its beaches” with two coastal divisions set up on every beach (Sicily, Naples…)

Some colonial divisions could be set up here and there in Africa to protect the British and French Empire. About 60000 troops were in French colonies during the war from Dakar to Brazzaville…

Germany could have a few garrisons in front of the Baltic Sea to avoid the AI mistakes. The same could be done with Norway that is played really badly by the AI, leaving enormous gaps all along the coast.

I don’t know what you all think about that but I think it could be quite helpful for some historical things in the game and would balance some AI mistakes.
For the moment I don’t have any idea about the strength or if tech could strengthen the Garrison during the game. Need to be discussed.

Bye. Speed.

 

[MateDow]

Garrison Troops

The AI (or a player) could, and probably would, move them through stratigic redeployment. It also might cause problems for the AI as it tried to move troops that it should know don't move. MDow

 

[jdrou]

Re: Garrison Troops

Originally posted by MateDow
The AI (or a player) could, and probably would, move them through stratigic redeployment. It also might cause problems for the AI as it tried to move troops that it should know don't move. MDow

I thought we'd found in the early days of modding that HoI wouldn't allow zero-speed units (they actually get 1 if the unit file says 0).

 

[MateDow]

Re: Re: Garrison Troops

Originally posted by jdrou
I thought we'd found in the early days of modding that HoI wouldn't allow zero-speed units (they actually get 1 if the unit file says 0).

I don't remeber one way or the other. It does sound like something that would be in the code though. It would be something designed to keep units for being stopped by terrain or other modifier that would otherwise make it zero. Probably something like "if speed < 1, then = 1" or some sort of fancy programming language MDow

 

[unmerged(20271)]

garrison divisions

Hi,
is there may be another way that could stop the AI from disbanding or redeploying these units? If I understand well it's almost impossible.
As the creation of theses units through events are not that important is it may be possible to oblige the AI through the event not to touch theses units.
"Italy sets up coastal divisions" - these divisions can't be disbanded, moved or redeployed by the AI. It sounds may be a little bit stupid I know. But can something be done?
Bye.

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: garrison divisions

Originally posted by speed
Hi,
is there may be another way that could stop the AI from disbanding or redeploying these units? If I understand well it's almost impossible.
As the creation of theses units through events are not that important is it may be possible to oblige the AI through the event not to touch theses units.
"Italy sets up coastal divisions" - these divisions can't be disbanded, moved or redeployed by the AI. It sounds may be a little bit stupid I know. But can something be done?
Bye.

not posible due to the engine.
But you can give a high priority to some provinces in the AI file, so they always keep a garrison there if you want...

 

[vertinox]

Re: Re: Garrison Troops

Originally posted by jdrou
I thought we'd found in the early days of modding that HoI wouldn't allow zero-speed units (they actually get 1 if the unit file says 0).

Hrm... What about V2 missles or ICMBs that have to be strategically redeployed?