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C.O.R.E. Tech Tree: Land units, techs and doctrines

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FYI

I am just finishing up my work with a naval tech tree (now time for the debugging and testing). I took a look at MKShepards naval tech tree and decided to just stay with what I am working with now. It is detailed, and I feel it does for naval vessels what he has done for armor. I will post (or request) reference numbers in the artillery tree for naval guns. If you are curious about the tech tree, take a jaunt over to Naval Mods and check it out. MDow
 
Re: FYI

Originally posted by MateDow
I am just finishing up my work with a naval tech tree (now time for the debugging and testing). I took a look at MKShepards naval tech tree and decided to just stay with what I am working with now. It is detailed, and I feel it does for naval vessels what he has done for armor. I will post (or request) reference numbers in the artillery tree for naval guns. If you are curious about the tech tree, take a jaunt over to Naval Mods and check it out. MDow
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Thanks, I surely would!
If you have list of guns ready (and maybe suggestions on which levels of artillery tree you would like to see them), post it here.
 
Naval Artillery

Here is what I think is needed in terms of numbers for naval artillery...

Level 0
102mm Naval Gun
127mm Naval Gun
152mm Naval Gun
203mm Naval Gun
254mm Naval Gun
305mm Naval Gun

Level 4
356mm Naval Gun
406mm Naval Gun

Level 6
460mm Naval Gun
Semi-Automatic 203mm Naval Gun
Lightweight 305mm Naval Gun

That should be all that is needed. Thank you for the help. MDow
 
Unconventional Warfare

What units would Guerrilla Warfare affect?

I think that it would come under this much hoped for partisans unit that we keep hearing rumors of (wishes for). If that unit doesn't come to be in the next patch, which unit does it work with? MDow
 
good question.
right now, having no partisans, I´d say such a tech should raise Militia´s org by 5 points. Maybe it also could speed them up a little to symbolize unconventional warfare with small units that practially could show up everywhere. that´s meant in opposition to larger regular army groups being slower but better organized altogether...
 
Maybe we need to add a new unit??? They would perform really well in jungle/mountain/forest/swamp areas but rather bad in clear terrain...
 
... there are no units that are specialists in Forest Warfare to this date as far as I know.. I dont think HOI should have it unless it was in WWII, which I doubt.
 
Isn´t Dennis describing the advantages of a guerilla unit there? But along with Burris I don´t think we´d need an extra unit (but possibly partisans some day...:) ) for that. I imagine ww2 guerilla only to be specially trained militia units, nothing else.
If that´s solved by an early tech (land doctrine) that leads to nothing else, only the minor countries would use it anyways. why´d germany build them? for the lightweights such a tech might come in handy enough to survive...
also this doctrine could further lower the needed supplies to symbolize that they can mainly 'live from the land' or are supported by the people.
 
I'd suggest making any Guerilla Warfare tech non-researchable and allocated only at start-up or through events. An organisation bonus would have little or no effect, focus on the terrain mods as proposed by emperor dennis. Base it on the militia unit if possible (it's not listed as an option in the tech file format.txt though). Maybe add a base defense +3 modifier to make them tougher as well.

These terrain combat modifiers look like likely candidates: mountain_attack, mountain_defense, hill_attack, hill_defense, forest_attack, forest_defense, swamp_attack, swamp_defense

Also the movement modifiers: mountain_move, hill_move, forest_move, swamp_move.
 
that surely looks like a good suggestion steel!
org has little effect you say? i always was under the impression it would make a big difference if you have your troops better organized... anyhow the +3 defense looks way better :)
i wouldnt like a Guerilla Warfare tech to be event based, then you´d have to rely on luck...
 
Org will only determine when you retreat, it doesn't affect attacks :( Ref. making it event-based I don't mean making it random, I mean country-specific events for ComChi, USSR etc that would occur at an offset from when they are invaded if it's not appropriate to include the techs from the start of the game.
 
Originally posted by Steel
Org will only determine when you retreat, it doesn't affect attacks :(
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learned something here :)


Originally posted by Steel
Ref. making it event-based I don't mean making it random, I mean country-specific events for ComChi, USSR etc that would occur at an offset from when they are invaded if it's not appropriate to include the techs from the start of the game.
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sounds good to me, maybe another trigger could be the advisor topic we were talking about in the other thread.
 
How about giving them very high surprise and very low visibility levels (if this works and is possible)??? It would recreate that they were very hard to spot as they hid themselves amongst the population but had scouts out everywhere. You could also make them very expensive so nobody would ever build them, instead they would pop up after events... Definiteley terrain modifiers are vital and so is high speed movement, also they should mainly be Russian (for all Easteren European partizans), Brittish(non-communist uprisings in the Balkans, like the Greeks) and French (Maquis), maybe some other nations as well? Like Italian (post-RSI that is) or Communist Chinese, maybe even more nations... But they should never be from a nation that doesn't exist in-game anymore (like Yuugoslavia, as this would suddenly give them all of Yugoslavia); just some ideas...
EDIT: and how about adding an Urban Terrain type; seemingly there is a slot free in the Terrain Type file... Don't know to what extent we can modify it's effects tough...
 
that again, sounded like the partizan unit we do not have. letting them just appear somewhere would be too powerful IMO. i´ll second the surprise/visibility thingy as an effect for a guerilla warfare. im not sure i fully understand the IntOp Chance Them and Surprise Chance them yet. could somebody clear me up there?
Guerilla´d Militia shouldnt be expensive. I see them rather as the average freedom fighter that had his training. so they have to be built but needn´t be too expensive.
 
Re: Naval Artillery

Originally posted by MateDow
Here is what I think is needed in terms of numbers for naval artillery...

Level 0
102mm Naval Gun
127mm Naval Gun
152mm Naval Gun
203mm Naval Gun
254mm Naval Gun
305mm Naval Gun

Level 4
356mm Naval Gun
406mm Naval Gun

Level 6
460mm Naval Gun
Semi-Automatic 203mm Naval Gun
Lightweight 305mm Naval Gun

That should be all that is needed. Thank you for the help. MDow
Click to expand...

Ok, tomorrow I'll post their id's. Any connections between them? I would suggest:
1) 305 ---> 356 ---> 406 ---> 460 (BB main guns evolution)
2) 102 ---> 127 (destroyer class guns)
3) 152 --->203 ---> 305 (L) (crusier guns)
 
Originally posted by Steel
I'd suggest making any Guerilla Warfare tech non-researchable and allocated only at start-up or through events. An organisation bonus would have little or no effect, focus on the terrain mods as proposed by emperor dennis. Base it on the militia unit if possible (it's not listed as an option in the tech file format.txt though). Maybe add a base defense +3 modifier to make them tougher as well.

These terrain combat modifiers look like likely candidates: mountain_attack, mountain_defense, hill_attack, hill_defense, forest_attack, forest_defense, swamp_attack, swamp_defense

Also the movement modifiers: mountain_move, hill_move, forest_move, swamp_move.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea - but I would like to wait for 1.04 to see if Parodox added someting about partisans. For now, I've recieved pretty good idea about similiar "non-researchable" doctrines. Basically it's "national doctrines". Example:

1) France - "Great War Experience" = -5 % org all land units (dont' worry, France would get their real techs to balance that - B1 bis heavy tanks, Somua medium tanks and so on).
2) USSR - "Political Control over Army" = - 5% org all units (like in France - balanced by equipment).
3) Japan - "Bushido codex" = +7 org% all units, kamikaze sea bomber activated (no air defence, high sea attack).
 
Re: Re: Naval Artillery

Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Ok, tomorrow I'll post their id's. Any connections between them? I would suggest:
1) 305 ---> 356 ---> 406 ---> 460 (BB main guns evolution)
2) 102 ---> 127 (destroyer class guns)
3) 152 --->203 ---> 305 (L) (crusier guns)
Click to expand...

The only changes in there are

254 -> 305 -> 356 -> 406 -> 460 (Battleship Armored Cruiser Guns)

102 -> 127 -> 152 (Destroyer Light Cruiser Guns)

203 -> semi 203 -> 305 (L) (Heavy Cruiser Guns)

MDow
 
But if the guerillas (or partisans) would be produceable what would stop a human player from crancking them out of the ground? Also they would not be able to work behind the enemy lines as they are supposed to do. in reality the partisans were volunteers and received almost no training from official military personnel, wich is contradictory with being able to produce thme; that's why I think they should be fully event-based...
 
Didn't Russia (SU) actively support paritisan activity with supplies of weapons and advisors? Seems like they were able to "create" partisan units in the German occupied territories. That would be something useful to have. It would probably be to much to ask that a partisan unit only be able to be produced in enemy occupied territory. MDow
 
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