A marriage for Adelaide? Where art Odo the Foolish? (Real children of Herbert.) Thanks
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I'll go option C as well, surely new opportunities will arise soon enough.
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I'm torn between the potential glory of B and the soundness of C.
But I'll vote B for the fun of it! Could make a great story, no?
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Can we change our vote? I actually agree with Nikolai. Flanders would make a great base from where to reconquer the Empire. I'll vote B and hope the house of Baldwin and Judith survive at least as counts, I really like the House of Flanders.
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Indeed. Adelaide's a Karling, just to be clear. It's Renaud who doesn't have members of his official dynasty to marry off.
I'm torn between the potential glory of B and the soundness of C.
But I'll vote B for the fun of it! Could make a great story, no?
Your votes have been noted!
You can, although your original post was ambiguous enough that I wasn't counting it anyway.
The vote is now tied between Options B and C!
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Negotiations, Part 2 (Somewhere In Between History Book and Narrative)
“The discussion went on for hours, but the end result was simple. Count Herbert’s sister, Adelaide, was to be married to one of the knights employed by Count Renaud to cement an alliance between their two realms. The terms of this alliance were extraordinarily strange, though, because it was unofficial. Instead of direct military aid in wars, the two counts would aid each other in far more subtle ways - they would offer each other gold or even knights instead.
Whenever this deal is referenced in their private letters, the implication was that it wasn’t a formal alliance because both counts were trying to avoid formal dynastic obligations. Their alliance was, after all, based on personal friendship, which was not something that was generally inherited.
When Count Herbert attempted to justify the deal to the rest of the Karlings, this was the justification that he used. He also noted that it allowed possible violent acquisition of the County of Clermont after his death… but it also increased the chances that the Counts of Clermont would peacefully submit to a Karling duchy ‘when such a thing came to pass’.
Unfortunately, all of this information was transmitted really quickly, which meant that it wasn’t really all that intelligible. Eudes thus forced Count Herbert to go to sleep and suggested that they have a family meeting in the morning instead. The Count agreed and was relieved.
That meeting was interesting. Accounts differ, of course, but most agree that there was no opposition to this deal. It is the reasoning of the other Karlings that differ between accounts - some idealistic sources insist that they saw no issue with basing political deals on personal relations, but the more pessimistic - and therefore realistic - sources note that there were probably ulterior motives involved. What those ulterior motives were is different in each account - some insist that the Karlings dreamed of a mostly peaceful reclamation of their old throne, but most are, naturally, more cynical. They note that gold - or, more specifically, the mercenaries that gold could buy - could easily turn the tide of wars. This interpretation was certainly supported by the events that followed…
News of the deal spread immediately. The nobles of the Kingdom of France had a thousand other concerns, but the Karlings were still being watched due to their past glory. Some nobles thought that watching the dynasty could prove their loyalty to the Capetians and grant them greater influence. The deal thus quickly set the entire court of France abuzz with rumors… and plots. Many nobles tried to figure out why such a deal was struck, and a few created a possibly accurate theory - that the alliance was unofficial because the marriage wasn’t an official way to join the two dynasties.
On the other hand, some cared nothing for rumors and instead thought of ways that they could exploit this new development. Count Renaud was not wrong when he said that the Karlings remained a notable dynasty - and that a marriage with them would increase his notoriety and his influence. When he heard of the plots that his deal set in motion, his response is rumored to have been pursing his lips and murmuring ‘good’.” - Politics in Medieval France
Since the vote is still tied between Options B and C, I'm going to extend it until next Sunday.
Whenever this deal is referenced in their private letters, the implication was that it wasn’t a formal alliance because both counts were trying to avoid formal dynastic obligations. Their alliance was, after all, based on personal friendship, which was not something that was generally inherited.
When Count Herbert attempted to justify the deal to the rest of the Karlings, this was the justification that he used. He also noted that it allowed possible violent acquisition of the County of Clermont after his death… but it also increased the chances that the Counts of Clermont would peacefully submit to a Karling duchy ‘when such a thing came to pass’.
Unfortunately, all of this information was transmitted really quickly, which meant that it wasn’t really all that intelligible. Eudes thus forced Count Herbert to go to sleep and suggested that they have a family meeting in the morning instead. The Count agreed and was relieved.
That meeting was interesting. Accounts differ, of course, but most agree that there was no opposition to this deal. It is the reasoning of the other Karlings that differ between accounts - some idealistic sources insist that they saw no issue with basing political deals on personal relations, but the more pessimistic - and therefore realistic - sources note that there were probably ulterior motives involved. What those ulterior motives were is different in each account - some insist that the Karlings dreamed of a mostly peaceful reclamation of their old throne, but most are, naturally, more cynical. They note that gold - or, more specifically, the mercenaries that gold could buy - could easily turn the tide of wars. This interpretation was certainly supported by the events that followed…
News of the deal spread immediately. The nobles of the Kingdom of France had a thousand other concerns, but the Karlings were still being watched due to their past glory. Some nobles thought that watching the dynasty could prove their loyalty to the Capetians and grant them greater influence. The deal thus quickly set the entire court of France abuzz with rumors… and plots. Many nobles tried to figure out why such a deal was struck, and a few created a possibly accurate theory - that the alliance was unofficial because the marriage wasn’t an official way to join the two dynasties.
On the other hand, some cared nothing for rumors and instead thought of ways that they could exploit this new development. Count Renaud was not wrong when he said that the Karlings remained a notable dynasty - and that a marriage with them would increase his notoriety and his influence. When he heard of the plots that his deal set in motion, his response is rumored to have been pursing his lips and murmuring ‘good’.” - Politics in Medieval France
Since the vote is still tied between Options B and C, I'm going to extend it until next Sunday.
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A Golden Stag (Narrative)
“After their meeting and unofficial alliance, there was a lull in communications between the two counts. Both men were very busy - Count Herbert had to prepare for his war, so he spent his time speaking with his commanders and his knights and training. Count Renaud, for his part, was busy securing his county from outside influence.
In December, though, Count Renaud reassured his friend that these things were merely a temporary distraction by offering a gift. He gave up a magnificent golden stag that had once lived in Clermont. The animal was offered in a letter, and Count Herbert’s initial thought was to refuse such a gift. He was a man of ancient and prestigious ancestry, and he had no need for such an ostentatious gift.
If the stag was from any other man, Count Herbert would’ve rejected it without a second thought, but it was from his friend. That changed the meaning of the gift. If it had been from anyone else, there would’ve been far more politics to consider. He would’ve owed the man who gave him the animal a large favor that could be used against him. However, the stag was from Renaud - a man who Herbert considered a friend and an ally of his realm. What would a single favor even mean to men who were as closely tied as they were?
Count Herbert was a realist, but even he could appreciate a fine gift, especially when he could be certain that it was offered without expectation of reward. Renaud had no need to resort to such measures with Herbert, and both counts knew as much.
Even so, Herbert was grateful enough that he began considering gifts that he could offer in return. Just because something was offered without the expectation of a reward did not mean that one could not be given. He briefly considered offering gold, but he decided that money would be a petty gift - and a thoughtless one. He ultimately chose to postpone his gift until he had won his first war, but he did send a letter of thanks to Renaud. That was the least that he could do.
As for the stag, it would become a famous figure in Vermandois. Songs would be written about its beauty, and it made appearances in dozens of popular literary texts. Herbert initially allowed it to roam the realm as a statement to his subjects of his wealth and power, but he would later retrieve it and bring it back to his castle. There, it became his constant companion and his personal pet. That move was the height of arrogance (and, some say, folly), of course - gold stags were famous for their rarity, but Herbert was never a very humble man.
Later, the stag would become symbolic as well to both commoners and the high nobility. It became a symbol of Karling benevolence and French unity. Future Karling rulers loved to exploit this single moment for propaganda purposes, especially during times of crisis and division. They also used it to reemphasize their ancient alliances, naturally..” - The Consequences of a Friendship
In December, though, Count Renaud reassured his friend that these things were merely a temporary distraction by offering a gift. He gave up a magnificent golden stag that had once lived in Clermont. The animal was offered in a letter, and Count Herbert’s initial thought was to refuse such a gift. He was a man of ancient and prestigious ancestry, and he had no need for such an ostentatious gift.
If the stag was from any other man, Count Herbert would’ve rejected it without a second thought, but it was from his friend. That changed the meaning of the gift. If it had been from anyone else, there would’ve been far more politics to consider. He would’ve owed the man who gave him the animal a large favor that could be used against him. However, the stag was from Renaud - a man who Herbert considered a friend and an ally of his realm. What would a single favor even mean to men who were as closely tied as they were?
Count Herbert was a realist, but even he could appreciate a fine gift, especially when he could be certain that it was offered without expectation of reward. Renaud had no need to resort to such measures with Herbert, and both counts knew as much.
Even so, Herbert was grateful enough that he began considering gifts that he could offer in return. Just because something was offered without the expectation of a reward did not mean that one could not be given. He briefly considered offering gold, but he decided that money would be a petty gift - and a thoughtless one. He ultimately chose to postpone his gift until he had won his first war, but he did send a letter of thanks to Renaud. That was the least that he could do.
As for the stag, it would become a famous figure in Vermandois. Songs would be written about its beauty, and it made appearances in dozens of popular literary texts. Herbert initially allowed it to roam the realm as a statement to his subjects of his wealth and power, but he would later retrieve it and bring it back to his castle. There, it became his constant companion and his personal pet. That move was the height of arrogance (and, some say, folly), of course - gold stags were famous for their rarity, but Herbert was never a very humble man.
Later, the stag would become symbolic as well to both commoners and the high nobility. It became a symbol of Karling benevolence and French unity. Future Karling rulers loved to exploit this single moment for propaganda purposes, especially during times of crisis and division. They also used it to reemphasize their ancient alliances, naturally..” - The Consequences of a Friendship
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I didn't respond to this immediately because I couldn't figure out what it meant. I think you're saying that there's no way that they don't have ulterior motives? If so, that's an accurate assessment!
Also, the vote is still tied between options B and C and was extended to this Sunday. As a reminder, these were the options:
A. Who cares about the Count's personal friendships? Attack Clermont! (Betrayal Arc... or perhaps a friendship against all odds arc)
B. We'll never reclaim our former glory by attacking mere counties. Attack Flanders you coward! (Risk Arc - either the beginnings of a Glory Arc or an Icarus Arc)
C. I'm pretty sure we've already technically broken the feudal contract. Maybe keeping a low profile is a good idea? (Housekeeping Arc)
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The Golden Stag is a living gold-colored deer? Friendship is giving without an expectation of return. Thanks
This update is pretty short since I've been busy. Sorry!
The golden stag was an event. Maybe it got exaggerated over time?
The friendship between the two counts is pretty... transactional here.
“The immediate prelude to the War for Valois is unclear. What is known is that, somehow, Herbert and Renaud met and discussed their plans. The unclear part is how they did so. Some say that they wrote letters, which would seem the most likely option, except there are no records of any such letters in the modern Archive of the Carolingians.
Others say that they met in secret, although they disagree about where this secret meeting was held, only agreeing that it happened somewhere in one of the two counties. One source even says that they met on the border between the two counties, proclaiming that this location was to ensure that neither ruler had to leave their realm to speak. The likelihood of that is unlikely since such an act would certainly have been the subject of gossip.
Regardless of how it occurred, this correspondence finalized how the alliance between their dynasties would work… especially during times of war. It was agreed that formal military aid would never be given to either count, but Herbert agreed to give unofficial aid by having many of his soldiers form a mercenary company if Renaud had a war to fight. In exchange, Renaud agreed to give gold to hire other mercenaries to Herbert when Herbert fought his wars.
Herbert later said that he outright admitted that his target was the County of Valois to Renaud. He then claims that Renaud’s response was, “of course it is. Where else would you attack?”. Most of the French nobility would come to despise those words before Herbert died, although Renaud never did.
When word reached Herbert that the Duke of Burgundy had finally declared war on his liege, the Carolingian immediately took advantage. He sent his declarations of war to Valois.
Most of the involved parties had either known or suspected that this was going to happen for some time, but the timing took them by surprise. Except Count Herbert himself, no one was prepared for such swift action, and everyone was quickly forced to adapt.
I need not speak of the Great War for Valois here. Everyone knows what happened then, and it’s been covered by a thousand other sources besides…” - Consequences of a Friendship
Also, I'm calling the vote. We're still tied, so I'll give myself the tiebreaker (per advice from the bAAR). We're going with Option B. Thanks to everyone who voted! Count Herbert will focus on Flanders after Valois is dealt with.
The golden stag was an event. Maybe it got exaggerated over time?
The friendship between the two counts is pretty... transactional here.
“The immediate prelude to the War for Valois is unclear. What is known is that, somehow, Herbert and Renaud met and discussed their plans. The unclear part is how they did so. Some say that they wrote letters, which would seem the most likely option, except there are no records of any such letters in the modern Archive of the Carolingians.
Others say that they met in secret, although they disagree about where this secret meeting was held, only agreeing that it happened somewhere in one of the two counties. One source even says that they met on the border between the two counties, proclaiming that this location was to ensure that neither ruler had to leave their realm to speak. The likelihood of that is unlikely since such an act would certainly have been the subject of gossip.
Regardless of how it occurred, this correspondence finalized how the alliance between their dynasties would work… especially during times of war. It was agreed that formal military aid would never be given to either count, but Herbert agreed to give unofficial aid by having many of his soldiers form a mercenary company if Renaud had a war to fight. In exchange, Renaud agreed to give gold to hire other mercenaries to Herbert when Herbert fought his wars.
Herbert later said that he outright admitted that his target was the County of Valois to Renaud. He then claims that Renaud’s response was, “of course it is. Where else would you attack?”. Most of the French nobility would come to despise those words before Herbert died, although Renaud never did.
When word reached Herbert that the Duke of Burgundy had finally declared war on his liege, the Carolingian immediately took advantage. He sent his declarations of war to Valois.
Most of the involved parties had either known or suspected that this was going to happen for some time, but the timing took them by surprise. Except Count Herbert himself, no one was prepared for such swift action, and everyone was quickly forced to adapt.
I need not speak of the Great War for Valois here. Everyone knows what happened then, and it’s been covered by a thousand other sources besides…” - Consequences of a Friendship
Also, I'm calling the vote. We're still tied, so I'll give myself the tiebreaker (per advice from the bAAR). We're going with Option B. Thanks to everyone who voted! Count Herbert will focus on Flanders after Valois is dealt with.
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Is Flanders a separate duchy that Herbert is going after or only individual counties? Thanks
The Opening Moves of the War (Letters)
“After Count Herbert declared war for Valois, he quickly began writing letters to a variety of figures as preparation for the conflict. He was worried that his opponent would catch him off guard by attacking quickly, and he also wished to finish the war as soon as he could in order to move on to conquering other lands in France. A few of these letters are excerpted below.
‘Dear my esteemed friend, Renaud of Clermont,
I hope this letter finds you well. As you have no doubt heard, I have taken advantage of the Capetian quarrel to declare war on our neighbor. I did not wish to do this, but he proved unable to comprehend how I was his rightful ruler and insisted on remaining loyal to the Capetians. His refusal to swear allegiance left me no choice except to solve things through military force.
I am writing to request your aid in this war, as we have agreed. Your military aid is not required, and gold would be far more valuable. Gold would allow me to hire mercenaries to fight for my rightful crown, although I am not well-versed in the ways of such men. As such, I would also appreciate advice about what mercenaries I should hire and how I can get in touch with them. After all, gold alone is useless - I must be able to use the gold for it to become valuable.
Yours sincerely,
Count Herbert of Vermandois, Head of the Karling House, and the only Rightful Heir of Charlemagne’
‘Dear my dearest friend, Herbert of Vermandois,
Your decision is most wise, as it should prevent any aid from reaching our enemy. Even so, it took me completely by surprise, and I was forced to adapt quickly. I have sent a messenger, escorted by a couple of my knights, to deliver this message and the gold. The protection should ensure that you receive your riches, as our deal said.
I would appreciate it if such measures weren’t required in the future. Please inform me if you make any more major decisions in the future before you act on them, as I need prior notice to fulfill all of the terms of our agreement. Thank you.
I have not been paying special attention to mentions of mercenary companies, but I have heard rumors about a few. My information is thus incomplete and of dubious reliability, but I shall tell you what I can. That is what friends are for, is it not?
Both the Bretons and the Normans seem to have taken up selling their services. The Normans are all united in a single group that has the approval of their duke, so there might be something going on there. Certainly, William can’t be happy that he was beaten to the throne of England by the King of Norway.
The Bretons, by contrast, have no official approval and are divided into multiple organizations. There is a Breton Band and a few others that I don’t know the name of. The benefit to hiring such groups should be obvious - they will be loyal to the gold that you’re paying them and only that gold. The downside, of course, is that hiring them won’t allow you to open discussion with a fellow duke who could be persuaded to support your just cause…
Finally, a third group seems to have emerged due to the war of succession over in England - the Band of Horsa. These men are Anglo-Saxon refugees who fled their home after it fell to Harald. I have not bothered to discern their reasoning, and it probably varies based on membership. Their leader is a Captain Gyrth, who men seem to agree is a virtuous man. They say that he is calm and forgiving. I’d take such rumors with a grain of salt - no man is a saint, and this man fled his home because it was conquered. I can’t imagine he’s forgiving enough to not harbor a grudge against Norway.
I suppose that’s something you can use, though.
Your faithful friend,
Count Renaud of Clermont’” - Excerpts From History
‘Dear my esteemed friend, Renaud of Clermont,
I hope this letter finds you well. As you have no doubt heard, I have taken advantage of the Capetian quarrel to declare war on our neighbor. I did not wish to do this, but he proved unable to comprehend how I was his rightful ruler and insisted on remaining loyal to the Capetians. His refusal to swear allegiance left me no choice except to solve things through military force.
I am writing to request your aid in this war, as we have agreed. Your military aid is not required, and gold would be far more valuable. Gold would allow me to hire mercenaries to fight for my rightful crown, although I am not well-versed in the ways of such men. As such, I would also appreciate advice about what mercenaries I should hire and how I can get in touch with them. After all, gold alone is useless - I must be able to use the gold for it to become valuable.
Yours sincerely,
Count Herbert of Vermandois, Head of the Karling House, and the only Rightful Heir of Charlemagne’
‘Dear my dearest friend, Herbert of Vermandois,
Your decision is most wise, as it should prevent any aid from reaching our enemy. Even so, it took me completely by surprise, and I was forced to adapt quickly. I have sent a messenger, escorted by a couple of my knights, to deliver this message and the gold. The protection should ensure that you receive your riches, as our deal said.
I would appreciate it if such measures weren’t required in the future. Please inform me if you make any more major decisions in the future before you act on them, as I need prior notice to fulfill all of the terms of our agreement. Thank you.
I have not been paying special attention to mentions of mercenary companies, but I have heard rumors about a few. My information is thus incomplete and of dubious reliability, but I shall tell you what I can. That is what friends are for, is it not?
Both the Bretons and the Normans seem to have taken up selling their services. The Normans are all united in a single group that has the approval of their duke, so there might be something going on there. Certainly, William can’t be happy that he was beaten to the throne of England by the King of Norway.
The Bretons, by contrast, have no official approval and are divided into multiple organizations. There is a Breton Band and a few others that I don’t know the name of. The benefit to hiring such groups should be obvious - they will be loyal to the gold that you’re paying them and only that gold. The downside, of course, is that hiring them won’t allow you to open discussion with a fellow duke who could be persuaded to support your just cause…
Finally, a third group seems to have emerged due to the war of succession over in England - the Band of Horsa. These men are Anglo-Saxon refugees who fled their home after it fell to Harald. I have not bothered to discern their reasoning, and it probably varies based on membership. Their leader is a Captain Gyrth, who men seem to agree is a virtuous man. They say that he is calm and forgiving. I’d take such rumors with a grain of salt - no man is a saint, and this man fled his home because it was conquered. I can’t imagine he’s forgiving enough to not harbor a grudge against Norway.
I suppose that’s something you can use, though.
Your faithful friend,
Count Renaud of Clermont’” - Excerpts From History
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Send Renaud's monies to Brittany. Did Norway win England over the Bastard (you may have said and I forgot)? Thank you
I'll update tomorrow since it's very late here, and I have, like, a paragraph of the next update written.
Yeah, Norway won England. I'm not very sure about the specifics, but I'll probably check them later for story purposes.
Sadly, I didn't get to hire the Bretons.
Yeah, Norway won England. I'm not very sure about the specifics, but I'll probably check them later for story purposes.
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Hiring Mercenaries (Letters)
“The letters that Count Herbert wrote were specifically tailored to their recipients. The count was a wise man, and he knew that writing generic letters would be unlikely to end well… or, at the very least, it wouldn’t ensure loyalty to anything other than money. If he appealed to them personally, however… he could earn their personal loyalty. Excerpted here are the letters that he wrote to appeal to the mercenary leaders.
‘To the great Captain Meginhard in Swabia,
I have heard tales of your great prowess in battle, and I wish to call upon the services of such a great commander in order to fight my just war against the Count of Valois. I am well aware that I should not withhold information, so I will explain the justice of my war.
Once, as I’m sure you know, my house ruled over both of our lands, stretching slightly beyond the western mountains that men call the Pyrenees east to the Elbe and as far south as Rome. Unfortunately, my house has fallen from those lofty heights, and now we only rule a single, small county. Usurpers seized all of our kingdoms, and I was reduced to inheriting almost nothing at all. Even so, all of the counts and dukes of West Francia swore allegiance to my dynasty, and the entire kingdom is mine by right. The Count of Valois has refused to kneel, and so I must force him to.
I am far from mighty now, but my dynasty was given their crown by the Almighty. We will gain back our great empire, and anyone who opposes us will be punished… perhaps even destroyed. On the other hand, those who aid us - aid me - will be greatly rewarded. You are a great fighter, and your aid would be useful. I would be glad to grant you land - either in France, or, if possible, even Germany (perhaps even your native Swabia) - should you aid me. All you need to do is agree to fight for me.
The rightful Heir of Charlemagne,
Herbert of Vermandois’
‘To the virtuous Captain Gyrth of the Anglo-Saxons,
Tales of your people have reached me, and I am interested in employing your services. I merely wish to reclaim land that was seized from my dynasty and people, as I’m sure you can understand. I will pay you well and even offer you a place to stay during the war… and perhaps after it. I do so hate to see men dispossessed.
Tales of your virtue have surely traveled across Europe, as have tales of how hard you work. I would certainly be willing to employ you in the long term and not have one measly war. Still, I would not prevent you from leaving if you have truly come to love your new life of wandering. If you have not, then we will discuss terms of long-term employment after we have defeated my enemies on the field of battle and reclaim my lost lands.
I am aware that men call you forgiving, but I am equally aware of how hard it is to forgive someone who has stolen your home and your livelihood from you. Are you so forgiving that you fail to hold a single grudge against King Harald Hardrada of Norway, who has truly heard the call of his Viking ancestors?
A concerned and desperate man,
Herbert of Vermandois’
‘To the righteous Count Herbert of Vermandois,
Some would argue that your ancestors were deposed because they became unworthy of ruling their land and lost the Almighty’s favor. On the other hand, your letter to me proves your wisdom, so you have surely regained it. I would be honored to participate in your war!
Of course, I would expect a suitable reward for my services. I do not care what form this reward takes - I would accept land, a bride, or even vast sums of money. I am not picky as long as I am rewarded and recognized for the great commander that I am. So many men of noble blood - especially kings - refuse to recognize that their inferiors also have their talents. I am glad to learn that you will be an exception.
All that remains now is to arrange a place to meet. I shall arrive with my army, and I imagine that Your Majesty will bring a great force! Together, we shall easily achieve victory!
A very interested man,
Captain Meginhard of Swabia’
‘To the great Captain Meginhard,
I am glad that you have seen the wisdom of aiding me. We shall meet in my capital, St. Quentin, and we shall begin making arrangements then. I would like to thank you in advance for your service to my honorable house.
Even so, I am well aware of the nature of this world. Men are often loyal to many things, and their greed, their love, or even their ambition can sometimes overpower their reason. If such a thing were to happen to you, my honored captain, and you were to betray me, I would be left with no choice but to punish you as harshly as I can in order to set an example. Mercy has no place when dealing with treason.
I trust you and believe you are an honorable man. I am simply not so foolish as to allow something like trust to blind me to the ways of the world. Do not betray me, and I shall reward you beyond your wildest dreams. If you do betray me, though, I will make you see hell as a mercy - a release and a reduction in your sentence.
The rightful Heir of Charlemagne,
Herbert of Vermandois’
‘To the wise Count Herbert of Vermandois,
Message received. I shall meet with you, and I will be loyal to you. There is no reason for you to worry, although the fact that you do proves that you are not naive.
Your captain,
Captain Meginhard of Swabia’
‘To Count Herbert of Vermandois,
I am not a proud man. There is no need to use flattery on me, as it is not necessary. I hold no lasting grudges against anyone. I will fight for you if you pay me, but the few years of mercenary work that I have done has proven something to me - there is no use in holding grudges. I will not allow you to sway me with promises of a revenge that I do not want.
By all accounts, my kin back in England remain safe and secure. King Harald is not cruel, and he knows better than to trigger a great rebellion among my people. I will not allow you to sway me with false promises of freedom for my kin.
From,
Captain Gyrth of the Band of Horsa’
‘To Captain Gyrth of the Band of Horsa,
What if my promises to grant you land in England were not a lie? What if I was being honest in my promises? I am not an oathbreaker. What would you do then? Would you gain a loyalty to something beyond money then?
The armies are assembling at my capital, St. Quentin. If you truly wish to get paid - or to talk about other matters, then you will meet us there.
By the Grace of God, the Heir of Charlemagne,
Herbert of Vermandois’
‘To Count Herbert of Vermandois,
Not all men are as proud as you are. If you are serious, however, I would be willing to discuss things when I go to your capital.
And I am loyal to something beyond money. I am loyal to the Almighty and to his son, Jesus Christ, who died upon the cross for my sins. It is unchristian to hold a grudge.
A humble servant of our common Lord,
Captain Gyrth of the Band of Horsa’” - Excerpts from History
A/N: The potential plotlines got away from me, and this chapter is the result. There's a lot of potential paths that this chapter opens up...
‘To the great Captain Meginhard in Swabia,
I have heard tales of your great prowess in battle, and I wish to call upon the services of such a great commander in order to fight my just war against the Count of Valois. I am well aware that I should not withhold information, so I will explain the justice of my war.
Once, as I’m sure you know, my house ruled over both of our lands, stretching slightly beyond the western mountains that men call the Pyrenees east to the Elbe and as far south as Rome. Unfortunately, my house has fallen from those lofty heights, and now we only rule a single, small county. Usurpers seized all of our kingdoms, and I was reduced to inheriting almost nothing at all. Even so, all of the counts and dukes of West Francia swore allegiance to my dynasty, and the entire kingdom is mine by right. The Count of Valois has refused to kneel, and so I must force him to.
I am far from mighty now, but my dynasty was given their crown by the Almighty. We will gain back our great empire, and anyone who opposes us will be punished… perhaps even destroyed. On the other hand, those who aid us - aid me - will be greatly rewarded. You are a great fighter, and your aid would be useful. I would be glad to grant you land - either in France, or, if possible, even Germany (perhaps even your native Swabia) - should you aid me. All you need to do is agree to fight for me.
The rightful Heir of Charlemagne,
Herbert of Vermandois’
‘To the virtuous Captain Gyrth of the Anglo-Saxons,
Tales of your people have reached me, and I am interested in employing your services. I merely wish to reclaim land that was seized from my dynasty and people, as I’m sure you can understand. I will pay you well and even offer you a place to stay during the war… and perhaps after it. I do so hate to see men dispossessed.
Tales of your virtue have surely traveled across Europe, as have tales of how hard you work. I would certainly be willing to employ you in the long term and not have one measly war. Still, I would not prevent you from leaving if you have truly come to love your new life of wandering. If you have not, then we will discuss terms of long-term employment after we have defeated my enemies on the field of battle and reclaim my lost lands.
I am aware that men call you forgiving, but I am equally aware of how hard it is to forgive someone who has stolen your home and your livelihood from you. Are you so forgiving that you fail to hold a single grudge against King Harald Hardrada of Norway, who has truly heard the call of his Viking ancestors?
A concerned and desperate man,
Herbert of Vermandois’
‘To the righteous Count Herbert of Vermandois,
Some would argue that your ancestors were deposed because they became unworthy of ruling their land and lost the Almighty’s favor. On the other hand, your letter to me proves your wisdom, so you have surely regained it. I would be honored to participate in your war!
Of course, I would expect a suitable reward for my services. I do not care what form this reward takes - I would accept land, a bride, or even vast sums of money. I am not picky as long as I am rewarded and recognized for the great commander that I am. So many men of noble blood - especially kings - refuse to recognize that their inferiors also have their talents. I am glad to learn that you will be an exception.
All that remains now is to arrange a place to meet. I shall arrive with my army, and I imagine that Your Majesty will bring a great force! Together, we shall easily achieve victory!
A very interested man,
Captain Meginhard of Swabia’
‘To the great Captain Meginhard,
I am glad that you have seen the wisdom of aiding me. We shall meet in my capital, St. Quentin, and we shall begin making arrangements then. I would like to thank you in advance for your service to my honorable house.
Even so, I am well aware of the nature of this world. Men are often loyal to many things, and their greed, their love, or even their ambition can sometimes overpower their reason. If such a thing were to happen to you, my honored captain, and you were to betray me, I would be left with no choice but to punish you as harshly as I can in order to set an example. Mercy has no place when dealing with treason.
I trust you and believe you are an honorable man. I am simply not so foolish as to allow something like trust to blind me to the ways of the world. Do not betray me, and I shall reward you beyond your wildest dreams. If you do betray me, though, I will make you see hell as a mercy - a release and a reduction in your sentence.
The rightful Heir of Charlemagne,
Herbert of Vermandois’
‘To the wise Count Herbert of Vermandois,
Message received. I shall meet with you, and I will be loyal to you. There is no reason for you to worry, although the fact that you do proves that you are not naive.
Your captain,
Captain Meginhard of Swabia’
‘To Count Herbert of Vermandois,
I am not a proud man. There is no need to use flattery on me, as it is not necessary. I hold no lasting grudges against anyone. I will fight for you if you pay me, but the few years of mercenary work that I have done has proven something to me - there is no use in holding grudges. I will not allow you to sway me with promises of a revenge that I do not want.
By all accounts, my kin back in England remain safe and secure. King Harald is not cruel, and he knows better than to trigger a great rebellion among my people. I will not allow you to sway me with false promises of freedom for my kin.
From,
Captain Gyrth of the Band of Horsa’
‘To Captain Gyrth of the Band of Horsa,
What if my promises to grant you land in England were not a lie? What if I was being honest in my promises? I am not an oathbreaker. What would you do then? Would you gain a loyalty to something beyond money then?
The armies are assembling at my capital, St. Quentin. If you truly wish to get paid - or to talk about other matters, then you will meet us there.
By the Grace of God, the Heir of Charlemagne,
Herbert of Vermandois’
‘To Count Herbert of Vermandois,
Not all men are as proud as you are. If you are serious, however, I would be willing to discuss things when I go to your capital.
And I am loyal to something beyond money. I am loyal to the Almighty and to his son, Jesus Christ, who died upon the cross for my sins. It is unchristian to hold a grudge.
A humble servant of our common Lord,
Captain Gyrth of the Band of Horsa’” - Excerpts from History
A/N: The potential plotlines got away from me, and this chapter is the result. There's a lot of potential paths that this chapter opens up...
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I'm pretty sure most of the mercenaries in CK are nobles of some kind. Even so, the 1066 start date provides a lot of opportunity for... upheaval.
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The Eve of War (Narrative)
“The city of St. Quentin was filled with bustling activity, and this made Count Herbert of Vermandois glad, for it meant that his men were preparing for war. There were a million different conversations occurring across the camp, and this also made the Count glad, for it meant that his men were talking with each other - and hopefully forming bonds. These conversations were not the only noise that the count heard, though. He also heard other noises, such as the sounds of steel hitting steel and the sound of a bow being strung, and these also made him glad, for they meant that his men were practicing their skill at warfare.
In the midst of the active camp, Count Herbert walked into a single tent to meet with his commanders. Briefly, he had considered a different course of action - dueling some of his soldiers. He could feel the war in the air, and he could already taste his victory, after all.Even so, it never hurt to be careful, and a lack of care could mean a defeat, so he needed to ensure that the different commanders that now served him got along, or his army would divide and fight amongst themselves. That would mean certain death. No army, divided against itself, ever achieved victory.
Inside the command tent, there were three men. The first two were strange to Count Herbert - they were the mercenary captains that he hired, Captain Meginhard and Captain Gyrth. The rumors about these two men could not have been more different, but both were famed for their battle prowess. Even so, they were the main reason why Count Herbert was here in person - he worried that their differing personalities would give them reason to fight one another, and that would doom his cause.
Besides the two men Count Herbert was worried about, there was a third man. He was named Evrard, and the count had placed him in charge of his own forces. He was renowned in their small county for his strategies, but Count Herbert had also heard rumors about… less savory things. He had heard rumors that, for all of his strategies, this knight couldn’t actually fight in a real battle.
He had seen some evidence of that for himself, too, but it didn’t worry him too much. For one thing, his only evidence was practice duels, and the commander had won many of those when he had bothered to show up, even if he had also frequently winced at the mere sight of a blade.
Naturally, Count Herbert’s fears were quickly proven correct as soon as he entered that command tent. Both of his mercenary captains were engaged in a rigorous debate over what to do with your enemies after a war’s conclusion. At the moment, Count Herbert thought that the discussion sounded quite civilized and peaceful, but he also knew that the two men felt quite strongly about that issue. Their discussion was unlikely to remain so calm.
His entrance to the room caused a brief pause, but his silence was taken for assent, and the discussion continued. Count Herbert did nothing to stop it, and he even listened in. After all, he would need to decide what to do with prisoners when he won his victory over Count Raoul of Valois and Amiens, assuming everything went well.” - The Valois War
In the midst of the active camp, Count Herbert walked into a single tent to meet with his commanders. Briefly, he had considered a different course of action - dueling some of his soldiers. He could feel the war in the air, and he could already taste his victory, after all.Even so, it never hurt to be careful, and a lack of care could mean a defeat, so he needed to ensure that the different commanders that now served him got along, or his army would divide and fight amongst themselves. That would mean certain death. No army, divided against itself, ever achieved victory.
Inside the command tent, there were three men. The first two were strange to Count Herbert - they were the mercenary captains that he hired, Captain Meginhard and Captain Gyrth. The rumors about these two men could not have been more different, but both were famed for their battle prowess. Even so, they were the main reason why Count Herbert was here in person - he worried that their differing personalities would give them reason to fight one another, and that would doom his cause.
Besides the two men Count Herbert was worried about, there was a third man. He was named Evrard, and the count had placed him in charge of his own forces. He was renowned in their small county for his strategies, but Count Herbert had also heard rumors about… less savory things. He had heard rumors that, for all of his strategies, this knight couldn’t actually fight in a real battle.
He had seen some evidence of that for himself, too, but it didn’t worry him too much. For one thing, his only evidence was practice duels, and the commander had won many of those when he had bothered to show up, even if he had also frequently winced at the mere sight of a blade.
Naturally, Count Herbert’s fears were quickly proven correct as soon as he entered that command tent. Both of his mercenary captains were engaged in a rigorous debate over what to do with your enemies after a war’s conclusion. At the moment, Count Herbert thought that the discussion sounded quite civilized and peaceful, but he also knew that the two men felt quite strongly about that issue. Their discussion was unlikely to remain so calm.
His entrance to the room caused a brief pause, but his silence was taken for assent, and the discussion continued. Count Herbert did nothing to stop it, and he even listened in. After all, he would need to decide what to do with prisoners when he won his victory over Count Raoul of Valois and Amiens, assuming everything went well.” - The Valois War
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