-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Oookay, that would provide endless combinations that would take really, REALLY long time do.
It shouldn't be like the existing COAs, predetermined... it would create a new COA file from the ingame editor for example. (Although I have no idea if that's possible or not).
and if you are king of six or seven kingdoms?
i suppose all the possible versions could be pre-created (at least at a king level), but when talking about dukes or counts, the possibilities quickly overwhelm.
i suppose all the possible versions could be pre-created (at least at a king level), but when talking about dukes or counts, the possibilities quickly overwhelm.
People in your court are already knights, so there's no point in knighting them. But I think that you should be able to "recruit" courtiers, or else they should come eventually from a pool.
I would add something more: those courtiers would have to be either the native province culture, either the count's culture (it's usual that new lords brought a retinue from their own culture, language...), so no more "Roger al-Shams" in the Templar Order or the Crusader kingdoms in Africa and Holy Land. Instead, some kind of "Crusader Kingdom" tag would make a special kind of names and characteristics appear. That would be: the courtiers and lords appearing in a Crusader Kingdom (Jerusalem, Syria, Mauretania...) should have either a name from the king's culture, either a name from the common Crusader's culture pool (a mixture of Frakish, Norman, Occitan and Italian names, and many possible surnames, all of them indicating either a Francized name in Holy Land (Montreal, Tiberias, Tortosa...), either a place in Europe (von Aachen, de Lusignan, de Puy, de Vaqueiras, de Carcassona...).
I would add something more: those courtiers would have to be either the native province culture, either the count's culture (it's usual that new lords brought a retinue from their own culture, language...), so no more "Roger al-Shams" in the Templar Order or the Crusader kingdoms in Africa and Holy Land. Instead, some kind of "Crusader Kingdom" tag would make a special kind of names and characteristics appear. That would be: the courtiers and lords appearing in a Crusader Kingdom (Jerusalem, Syria, Mauretania...) should have either a name from the king's culture, either a name from the common Crusader's culture pool (a mixture of Frakish, Norman, Occitan and Italian names, and many possible surnames, all of them indicating either a Francized name in Holy Land (Montreal, Tiberias, Tortosa...), either a place in Europe (von Aachen, de Lusignan, de Puy, de Vaqueiras, de Carcassona...).
.png){kind=avatar}
very possible I think, it was made in the (excellent) dynastic glory scoresheet
see it there http://www.kstudio.net/dg/
special multi COAs are composed from CK's original ones, seems to be limited to 4 max titles mixed (4 is enough i think)
The problem for this kind of shield-making is that some coats of arms, like that for Burgundy, is made for "fiitting well" into the shield template. When you make it into a composite DG-style shield, it looks weird.
Besides, it only makes quarterised coats of arms. What about saltire partition, so popular in Spain?
Or the bar partition, also quite popular in Spain and Italy:
I'd prefer some kind of "player CoA", a dynamic file that the player could modify easily.
Anyway, the current method for heraldry is more or less enough for me.
Besides, it only makes quarterised coats of arms. What about saltire partition, so popular in Spain?
Or the bar partition, also quite popular in Spain and Italy:
I'd prefer some kind of "player CoA", a dynamic file that the player could modify easily.
Anyway, the current method for heraldry is more or less enough for me.
Well, it could ask you first if you want just 1 image on the shield, vertical/slanted/horizontal split, saltire partitions, quarterised, etc... then which of your titles you want in it (only king titles possible if you have even one king title, duke CoAs if you're not a king, or ... you get the idea). To be honest, doesn't seem too hard. It would have to create a new image for every new CoA like this, but if it was only done by the player(s), then it'd be enough for there to be one extra CoA image file per save game, to which the CoA editor saves your title. But this is something that would definitely be cool.
Btw, you mentioned that saltire was popular in Spain, yet the modern Spanish CoA is Navarra, Aragon, Castille and Leon on a quarterised shield
Ok, there probably are historical reasons for that too, i've never really read history at all, yet really enjoy the game
Btw, you mentioned that saltire was popular in Spain, yet the modern Spanish CoA is Navarra, Aragon, Castille and Leon on a quarterised shield
Ok, there probably are historical reasons for that too, i've never really read history at all, yet really enjoy the game
My idea was that ingame it would exist an editor, with all the saltires, quarters, etc format (at least the most used ones). We then pick the format, then we chose from our titles pool where we want to put the COA of that title.
Imagine I have 5 titles. A, B, C, D and E.
I go to the "General format" part. I pick a base that has 4 square quarters and a round part in the middle of them, in the center - this is chosen from a formats database of COAs.
Then I go to the "Which, Where" part, I chose A to the first and fourth quarter, B to the second and C to the third. Then I chose E for the one in the middle.
And voilá, COA made. I left D out, as the format of this complex COA only allows 4 COA. But if I chosed, say, one that had 5 parts, I could have them all. Of course we would be free to chose a format and put just the COAs I want.
Imagine I have 5 titles. A, B, C, D and E.
I go to the "General format" part. I pick a base that has 4 square quarters and a round part in the middle of them, in the center - this is chosen from a formats database of COAs.
Then I go to the "Which, Where" part, I chose A to the first and fourth quarter, B to the second and C to the third. Then I chose E for the one in the middle.
And voilá, COA made. I left D out, as the format of this complex COA only allows 4 COA. But if I chosed, say, one that had 5 parts, I could have them all. Of course we would be free to chose a format and put just the COAs I want.
Is that the coat of arms of Phillip II when married with Mary Tudor?
And yes, it would be cool. But it would not fit the reality in early Middle Ages, X-XIIIth Centuries, where this kind of division in coats of arms was not common.
What was common was to keep the most prestigious coat of arms (like the Hohenstaufens did, taking for themselves the three lions of Swabia), to keep your own families' one (what the House of Savoy did) or to integrate new coats of arms directly into your old one.
The last one was quite common in the X-XIth Centuries. Aragon, for instance, had initially less bars, for each of those bars represented a golden sceptre for each of the counties the original Counts of Barcelona held (Cerdanya, Barcelona and Girona). That's one of the theories that circulate about the controversial origin of the Aragonese coat of arms (Aragonese claim it to be of pure Aragonese origin, Catalans claim it to be originated in the House of Barcelona, which would eventually rule over Aragon, hence the problem... we'll never know with all those nationalisms around).
The Plantagenet coat of arms is also a proof of dynamic coat of arms. The CoA of Normandy and Aquitaine suggests that initially the dukes of Normandy had one single lion passant. Later, with Henry II, another lion would have been added, to represent Aquitaine. Whether the lions were passant or rampant, facing one each other, is not yet uncovered. And with Richard the Lionheart, a third lion was added. I don't know why, really, but an interpretation could be: England, Normandy and Aquitaine.
---
Also, it would be really cool that you could add features to your coat of arms, to represent cadet branches. Go to Wikipedia and look for "brisures" or "cadency". Things like bordures, crossing bars, labels, saltires and other features can be very cool. French Capetian kings did it all the time:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisure
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisura
And yes, it would be cool. But it would not fit the reality in early Middle Ages, X-XIIIth Centuries, where this kind of division in coats of arms was not common.
What was common was to keep the most prestigious coat of arms (like the Hohenstaufens did, taking for themselves the three lions of Swabia), to keep your own families' one (what the House of Savoy did) or to integrate new coats of arms directly into your old one.
The last one was quite common in the X-XIth Centuries. Aragon, for instance, had initially less bars, for each of those bars represented a golden sceptre for each of the counties the original Counts of Barcelona held (Cerdanya, Barcelona and Girona). That's one of the theories that circulate about the controversial origin of the Aragonese coat of arms (Aragonese claim it to be of pure Aragonese origin, Catalans claim it to be originated in the House of Barcelona, which would eventually rule over Aragon, hence the problem... we'll never know with all those nationalisms around).
The Plantagenet coat of arms is also a proof of dynamic coat of arms. The CoA of Normandy and Aquitaine suggests that initially the dukes of Normandy had one single lion passant. Later, with Henry II, another lion would have been added, to represent Aquitaine. Whether the lions were passant or rampant, facing one each other, is not yet uncovered. And with Richard the Lionheart, a third lion was added. I don't know why, really, but an interpretation could be: England, Normandy and Aquitaine.
---
Also, it would be really cool that you could add features to your coat of arms, to represent cadet branches. Go to Wikipedia and look for "brisures" or "cadency". Things like bordures, crossing bars, labels, saltires and other features can be very cool. French Capetian kings did it all the time:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisure
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisura
Last edited:
gotta second that.
Richard I added the third lion to the Plantaganet arms apparently so he could raise revenue from his civil servants who would need to buy new seals to replace the old two lion coat of arms. he needed the cash to pay off the debts his mother had incurred raising his ransom.
Heraldry was much more fluid back in the Middle Ages, and applying the rules that Philip II lived by when he was trying to restore Catholicism to England to monarchs who lived 4 centuries before him is a bit of a stretch.
As it is, keeping the CoAs constant for the whole time span of CK is more than a tad ludicrous, but we live with it.
Or you could just include a simple graphics program.
It would probably lead to lots of anachronistic quartering by players, and also a massive increase in the use of non-heraldic "heraldry" but it would be fun.
Nick
Crusader Kings 2: To be developed - Confirmed!
Yes, I know there is another Crusader Kings II thread. But, this deserves a new thread:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10476901&postcount=8
Talk amongst yourselves...
Yes, I know there is another Crusader Kings II thread. But, this deserves a new thread:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10476901&postcount=8
Talk amongst yourselves...
There's actually another thread for that very quote...
But damnit, the title of the thread made me think it was something new (like they were going to start already ;_; )
But damnit, the title of the thread made me think it was something new (like they were going to start already ;_; )
That's what I was thinking too, like they gave us a date of when it would be completed and we would start seeing developer diaries. :rofl: