E3 Mod & E3 Map thread

[Titan79]

I know that you're involved in some quite boring tasks. Therfore it was a pleasure for me to save you from those boring tasks. But I do know also, what your priorities are. Good luck with your mod.

Well, I'm always open to helping someone when it comes to a good cause, like this map mod. So,

Although I'd favour delegating the adaption of the ai files I know that I have to rely on myself to do it because it's really such an ugly, nasty task.

what would be needed, here? I have to warn you, though, that:

1) I have absolutely no AI-coding knowledge
2) apart from that, I'm not promising you anything
3) keep in mind point #2

§ § §

I mean that many names change from Spanish to English/German/Italian/Other-native-language. More than in Italian with the native language.

Yeah, can be. I don't know very much spanish so I guess you know better than me . Many of the names you've listed apply to italian as well, though (Monaco, Aquisgrana, Lubecca, Augusta etc.)

Venezia is the example! You spell it like "Venetzia"!

Hm, yes, put this way it's correct. I didn't even think about that . Anyway, it's a minor difference compared to other languages like english or french where you can never know how a word has to be spelled unless you know that word in advance... or they tell you

In addition, if you know at least a bit of italian and someone says "Venezia" or "zanzara" or "zia" etc., you could not be 100% sure about the pronunciation of those "z", but you are sure that they will be written that way. Don't know if it was clear, anyway in italian there aren't many ways to write words.

It was just a joke! All of them!

I know! Funny thing, by the way

 

[Viden]

Yeah, can be. I don't know very much spanish so I guess you know better than me . Many of the names you've listed apply to italian as well, though (Monaco, Aquisgrana, Lubecca, Augusta etc.)

I can't be sure since I have nearly no knowledge about Italian, but the few provinces I had checked had more Spanish translations that Italian ones.

Hm, yes, put this way it's correct. I didn't even think about that . Anyway, it's a minor difference compared to other languages like english or french where you can never know how a word has to be spelled unless you know that word in advance... or they tell you

I think we were talking about earthling languages.

I know! Funny thing, by the way

Indeed.

- - - - - -

PS: Ok, so, I will translate the provinces with Spanish translation and the most important ones (Example: Corcaigh > Cork) Or should I translate everything?

 

[Titan79]

I cna't be sure since I have nearly no knowledge about Italian, but the few provinces I had checked had more Spanish translations that Italian ones.

No, no, you're surely right. It always struck me the inclination spanish language has to translating other languages. Correct me if I'm wrong, but somewhere I've heard that Shakespeare, in Spain, is often spelled as "Cespir" (or someting like that). Is this true...?

I think we were talking about earthling languages.

Of course...

PS: Ok, so, I will translate the provinces with Spanish translation and the most important ones (Example: Corcaigh > Cork) Or should I translate everything?

Don't ruin your youth years - go for the first option

 

[Viden]

No, no, you're surely right. It always struck me the inclination spanish language has to translating other languages. Correct me if I'm wrong, but somewhere I've heard that Shakespeare, in Spain, is often spelled as "Cespir" (or someting like that). Is this true...?

Well, whe are the second most important language and the third most spoken, so, we must keep our status in order to defeat & destroy the Anglo-Saxon behemoth!

"Cespir" can only be spelled by people with a very bad English and never willfully. I never heard that.

Don't ruin your youth years - go for the first option

My youth years? What youth years!? I already born with 80 years!

 

[Fürstbischof]

I don't think History has to do nothing important with this, at least not the geopolitical history. It's simply the evolution of the language. I say this because Germany is one of the European countries with most translated names:

Köln > Colonia.

Don't dismiss history easily.

Köln's spanish name is a good example how the circle closes since its original latin name is "Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium". In this case history seems to have a small influence.

The evolution of a language is ofc influenced by its usage but also by circumstances which are influenced by events or geopolitics. E.g. up to the 1930ies German was the major language used by scientists. The events following the regime change caused an exodus of them especially to the USA. The victory of the USA and the beginning cold war, which was also won by the USA cemented the role of the english language as the dominating language used by scientists. Today most people can't even imagine that it might have been different.

And there are good reasons why Germany is one of the European countries with the most translated (city) names. One would be its position in the center of Europe which meant in 'ancient' times many traders/travellers had to pass through. This position also had a positive influence on founding/establishing major fairs which are today very important for the german industry. Or remember the Hanseatic League. Another reason would be that the german language is somewhat difficult, so that foreigners prefer to translate it into a more familiar spelling. If the german language would have been of latin origin then that might not have been necessary for people whose language had the same origin. But there have been certain (historical) reasons why the romans weren't able to civilise Germany.

 

[Fürstbischof]

PS: Ok, so, I will translate the provinces with Spanish translation and the most important ones (Example: Corcaigh > Cork) Or should I translate everything?

Don't ruin your youth years - go for the first option

Good to see that you haven't lost your humour. Please stick to your first option.

 

[Viden]

Don't dismiss history easily.

I don't. I dismissed geopolitics.

Köln's spanish name is a good example how the circle closes since its original latin name is "Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium". In this case history seems to have a small influence.

Geopolitics have nothing to do with the ancient name of Colonia.

Pick any name, German or not, and it probably will have translation to Spanish.

The evolution of a language is ofc influenced by its usage but also by circumstances which are influenced by events or geopolitics. E.g. up to the 1930ies German was the major language used by scientists. The events following the regime change caused an exodus of them especially to the USA. The victory of the USA and the beginning cold war, which was also won by the USA cemented the role of the english language as the dominating language used by scientists. Today most people can't even imagine that it might have been different.

Not exactly, the victory of the USA in WW2 and the Cold War cemented the role of English everywhere not only science: Economics, politics, health... But in the 30s the role of German wasn't that.

And there are good reasons why Germany is one of the European countries with the most translated (city) names. One would be its position in the center of Europe which meant in 'ancient' times many traders/travellers had to pass through. This position also had a positive influence on founding/establishing major fairs which are today very important for the german industry. Or remember the Hanseatic League. Another reason would be that the german language is somewhat difficult, so that foreigners prefer to translate it into a more familiar spelling. If the german language would have been of latin origin then that might not have been necessary for people whose language had the same origin. But there have been certain (historical) reasons why the romans weren't able to civilise Germany.

German isn't difficult. And... For "foreigners" should I understand "Spanish"? Because we were talking that a lot of German names were translatedi nto Spanish, more than to Italian or English, and I suppose than to French too.

And the main historical reason for the Romans not conquering Germany was a military disaster which made Germany a waste of resources for Rome.

Moreover, a lot of Russian names had translation to Spanish, and Chinese names, Arab names, Nordic names, French names, Italian names, Greek names, Turkish names, etc...

 

[Fürstbischof]

Well, I'm always open to helping someone when it comes to a good cause, like this map mod. So,

what would be needed, here? I have to warn you, though, that:

1) I have absolutely no AI-coding knowledge
2) apart from that, I'm not promising you anything
3) keep in mind point #2

ad 1) Neither do I, which makes it an quite interesting endeavour. You'll learn many tricks about the interior mechanics of the game but you'll also discover that you can easily do more harm than good.

ad 2) I hope I haven't promised that I'll finish the adaption of the E3 map to AOD even if I have to do it alone. Maybe I should ask P'dox for a new user name...

ad 3) atm I'm doing the ai files by myself. If you don't help me then is that not really a problem since I haven't lost anything. It'll simply take somewhat longer to finish that task.

If I can't scare you away you can open an ai file if you dare it. A good start would be if you look into a file like usa_italy.ai which you can find in ai/switches. Then you get a first hand impression of what awaits you. Because of files of this type it's are very time-consuming task. And the job isn't done with a 1:1 adaption, you've also to add province ids where it seems appropriate. So, you've been warned...

 

[Fürstbischof]

@Viden:

How far have you got? I've fixed the missing impassable provinces and plan to update the uploads this weekend. It'd be a good opportunity to add the corrected province_names.csv file. Will you be ready at Sunday? What do you think?

 

[Titan79]

(...)

If I can't scare you away you can open an ai file if you dare it. A good start would be if you look into a file like usa_italy.ai which you can find in ai/switches. Then you get a first hand impression of what awaits you. Because of files of this type it's are very time-consuming task. And the job isn't done with a 1:1 adaption, you've also to add province ids where it seems appropriate. So, you've been warned...

Ok, let's put it this way: right now I'm totally absorbed by the work on my stuff. I don't know exactly how much it will still take to finish and polish it; anyway, when I'll be done, we'll see if I won't be too bored about painstaking jobs... then maybe I could lend a hand.
However, I want to stress this once more, don't expect anything - I have no idea if I'll be willing to do that. Other things (e.g. graphics) yes, but cross checking lots of lines... once again... OMG!!

I'll tell you, in any case.

 

[Vaximillian]

Hi guys, I can take the Russian names.

 

[Fürstbischof]

E3 beach contest
​

If you look at the E3 map you'll see that almost any coastal province has a beach and a port. It seems to be worthwhile to look more closely at contemporary maps to determine how many of these are actually warranted or needed. Especially the abundance of beaches isn't to the advantage of the ai. If we want the ai once to be a worthwhile opponent we should handle this task carefully. As long as a division is the smallest land unit we can easily overextend it which makes the game more easier than planned.

Therefore I start now a beach contest. Please report any coastal province with a beach or port which isn't suitable for it. If you find a province, which is missing both or only one of them, that in reality does have these, report it here, too. Check also carefully if ships enter ports from the right seazone.

Some harbour symbols are misplaced. While cross-checking ports and beaches you'll naturally stumble across these instances. We're willing to move these to a more appropriate position on the map but you have to tell us the exact x/y position and maybe the new port seazone. Since it's then a simple matter of copy&paste you can expect that we'll add it. The exact x/y positions of ports (and beaches) can be found in the province.csv file.

Please post your proposals in the E3 map thread in the AOD/user modifications sub-forum. (link below)

 

[Fürstbischof]

Hi guys, I can take the Russian names.

Cool. Once Viden has done the spanish names you can use his uploaded file as a base for your translation.

 

[Viden]

@Viden:

How far have you got? I've fixed the missing impassable provinces and plan to update the uploads this weekend. It'd be a good opportunity to add the corrected province_names.csv file. Will you be ready at Sunday? What do you think?

No, sorry...

By now I have done 500 provinces. The work it's harder than I expected because lots of provinces have translated names and I have been busy this days, but it's only a matter of time (Worst provinces are the East European, who nearly the half have translation) to accomplish my mission. Thank God America will be quite easy.

 

[Vaximillian]

Cool. Once Viden has done the spanish names you can use his uploaded file as a base for your translation.

Good.

 

[Titan79]

...anyway, although the work has already been done from my side so there's no much point in writing what I'm about to :

I see the translation of province names as something (almost) useless. I mean, even if I play the game in Italian, I prefer to have the cities in English since that way they match their name on the actual map, and so it's easier to find one when I need to.

Unless, of course, the E3 map had different on map drawn names matching the language chosen in settings.cfg...

 

[Viden]

...anyway, although the work has already been done from my side so there's no much point in writing what I'm about to :

I see the translation of province names as something (almost) useless. I mean, even if I play the game in Italian, I prefer to have the cities in English since that way they match their name on the actual map, and so it's easier to find one when I need to.

Unless, of course, the E3 map had different on map drawn names matching the language chosen in settings.cfg...

Well, I prefer to have the names translated, because many original names are simply impossible to read in Spanish. And it's very didactic to have both the native and the translated names in the map.

PS: About 1000 provinces done and growing!

 

[Vaximillian]

Well, I prefer to have the names translated, because many original names are simply impossible to read in Spanish. And it's very didactic to have both the native and the translated names in the map.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Fürstbischof]

re first map fix:

The first update of the major map files is now downloadable. You can find the download links if follow my sig.

It includes:

+ the province.csv file which has the corrected areas/regions, terrain and climate of Europe, Australia and Asia
+ the locations of some ports have been moved
+ 3 unused land provinces (418, 692, 908) are now sea provinces
+ the province_names.csv file which now includes the italian names of many provinces
+ the adj-defs.csv file which now re-includes all/most of the straits & river crossings and many impassable desert & mountain of the vanilla map
+ the most recent navaldist.tbl

EDIT: we only support v1.04 - if you use the v1.05 beta patch you'll see sometimes the 'unknown string wanted' message while moving the mouse over some areas/regions

 

[Fürstbischof]

re updated scenario files:

In addition to the updated map files we've uploaded an improved set of scenario files so that you can enjoy all the changes which we've made during the last weeks. You can find the download links if follow my sig.

It includes:

+ the revolt.txt file now has an improved list of revolters which includes for many nations a very detailed list of pre-war, post-ww2 and post-cold war claims which you can fully customise to your liking
+ finally the European Union can be released, too
+ re-worked scenario setup for many nations
+ added/re-worked intelligence setup for many nations
+ many naval bases have been added, removed or moved to their historical location
+ the scenario files include now a detailed list of claims
+ cores have been added to some provinces to avoid that these provinces are given away when a nation is liberated