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edit: w00p! first on page 5!

About the capital of Byzantium floating down to Mistra without cause - I put in the control trigger, even though it doesn't work yet. I'm an optimistic chap, I thought maybe it would work, just for me. So, I guess everyone will have to deal with it until 1.02, or comment it out (with a # at the beginning of the line).

Basil II's post on the Super Secret EEP Byzantium Mod Page and Rodent Mass Purchasing Center (tm) reminded me of another point I wanted to discuss, vis-a-vis the capital moving to Mistra:

Should Byzantium become Greece?

IOW, should there be an event for the shattered Byzantines, after the move, asking them if they want to become Greece, with considerably lowered aspirations (Hellas, Macedonia, Ionia) or stay Byzantium (/eastern Roman Empire)? The only nice thing about that is then we could have an event for the Greeks (if they appear as revolters or something) to become Byzantium along with Serbia et al. if they take Constantinople.

While we're talking about names, I was thinking about having events to change the name to Eastern Roman Empire if they retake substantial portions of the Balkans and Anatolia, and the Roman Empire if they choose to try and reclaim the whole empire in that hypothetical event way down the road.

Jools: Do you want a zip of the events as they stand after tonight's coding effort? Perhaps the central team could suggest some more negative ones (since I'm sure that will be the impulse ;)).

driftwood
 
The stuff I've already posted about.

Two other problems: the desertion command doesn't seem to work (so I can't use an event to decrease the size of the army in Thrace) and the war trigger doesn't seem to work (events won't trigger based on whether a country is at war with another). Doh.

driftwood
 
Byzantium should NOT just become Greece. They should have an event offering the following choices:
A) Form Greek Nation-State(get CBs on Aegean region, +3 centralization)
B) Form Localized Empire(CBs on most of AM, Lower Balkans, +1 centralization)
C) and D) Bigger Empire pursuit options
 
Besides, the notion of becoming 'Greek' again only reared it's head in the 1820, when the Greeks were fighting for independance from the 'evil Turks'. To acquire more support from the West (as it's fight for independence was in clear violation with the principles of the 'Restoration') they called themselves Hellenes instead of Byzantines/Romaion.
 
However, it would go more toward goals than title. A "Greek" state would only aim to control the Aegean area, + some of AM and the Balkans. It would be more under control, too, and probably more interested in trade than conquest en masse. A localized empire would seek AM and the Lower Balkans, about the size of tne Manzikert Empire.
 
The modern day nation of Greece (since independence in the 1820's) still has aspirations to the Byzantine past...

This is evidenced by their (failed) attacks on Constantinople post-WW1, and the fights on and off with the Turks since the 1970's over Cyprus. Greece certainly even today would claim to have a "CB" on the city...

Which is something I've always found interesting... Greece and Turkey are two of America's staunchest allies (especially Turkey), both are members of NATO, yet they are mortal enemies... To be honest, post-cold war, I've expected a "balkan war" to erupt between the two, as has been happening in the former Yugoslavia. Probably the only reason why it hasn't happened was the fact that most of the Greeks who still lived in Asia Minor and Thrace were expelled post-WW1, so they've already been "ethnically cleansed"

The upshot of all this is that I don't believe even today that Greece thinks of themselved as "just Greece", and I don't think the Byzantines ever would have either, so long as they survived independant somewhere.

BUT, as this is fantasy, not reality (since we are talking about post-1453 Byzantium), it would be an interesting "what if" option to give the player...
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by Basil II
The modern day nation of Greece (since independence in the 1820's) still has aspirations to the Byzantine past...

This is evidenced by their (failed) attacks on Constantinople post-WW1, and the fights on and off with the Turks since the 1970's over Cyprus. Greece certainly even today would claim to have a "CB" on the city...

Probably the only reason why it hasn't happened was the fact that most of the Greeks who still lived in Asia Minor and Thrace were expelled post-WW1, so they've already been "ethnically cleansed"

The upshot of all this is that I don't believe even today that Greece thinks of themselved as "just Greece", and I don't think the Byzantines ever would have either, so long as they survived independant somewhere.
Click to expand...


[offtopic]
both greece and turkey did ethnic cleansing. for example morea & kreta used to have greek muslim muslim majority before greeko-turkish wars. after those wars most of the greek muslim were expelled to turkey, turks on the other hand expelled greek-orthodox back to greece.

war in cyprus doesnt have anything to do with greek desire to have some kind of byzantine empire it has to do with greek majority wanting to be part of greece while turkish minority didnt want it. I would say cyprus conflict has more to do with local greeks and turks than with greek desire to expand its country. [/offtopic]
 
Just out of curiousity, can anyone give me the full story on Greek control over Smryra after WW1? Did they control just the city or a whole chunk of land around it too?
 
The Greeks possessed Smyrna and a fair chunk of land around at the end of WWI. Kemal Ataturk (although he wasn't Ataturk then) and his government in Ankara refused to agree to this, so the Greeks invaded. Well, without adequate supply lines and surrounded by a hostile populace, they got about halfway to Ankara and were utterly routed. The Greeks were forced to abandon Smyrna, and the two countries subesquently traded populations to get the Turks out of Greece and the Greeks out of Turkey...
 
Originally posted by Demetrios
The Greeks possessed Smyrna and a fair chunk of land around at the end of WWI. Kemal Ataturk (although he wasn't Ataturk then) and his government in Ankara refused to agree to this, so the Greeks invaded. Well, without adequate supply lines and surrounded by a hostile populace, they got about halfway to Ankara and were utterly routed. The Greeks were forced to abandon Smyrna, and the two countries subesquently traded populations to get the Turks out of Greece and the Greeks out of Turkey...
Click to expand...


from what i read this displacement of people had more to do with religion than with nation. All muslims from former ottoman empire were welcome to turkey. they would get some land and had in exchange to change their names/surnames to be more "turkish". so in many cases those people who were expelled to turkey were greek-muslims and not turks. through this process they became turks.
 
Not that I don't enjoy OT conversations or anything (note: the population exchanges in 1922 succeeded mostly in destroying the prosperity of the two regions by turning upper-middle class families with centuries of history there into tent-dwellers in camps on the "other side") ...

IMHO, a Greece centered on Morea (with the option to move to Athens or Constantinople should they be controlled) would seek to control the Aegean. This is lines with Byzantine-restoration dreams of even modern Greece, since it includes Morea, Hellas, Albania, Macedonia, Thrace, Smyrna, Ionia. Those areas clearly form an economic chunk. Giving up the other claims (to the Serbia through Armenia swath) could easily be seen as a sane reaction to the realities of starting off with just Morea (after being ejected from Constantinople).

driftwood
 
Just letting people know that I posted another batch of events that don't immediately crash the game in teh Annex. There are actually some bug fixes, too. In fact, I think I'll just repost all my events.

IMPORTANT NOTE!!!
You must break the events up into two files, of length no greater than 682 lines. A 683 line file (with word wrap off ;)) crashes the game during loading.

driftwood
 
Oh, I just got my copy of "A History of the Byzantine State and Society" by Warren Treadgold. Now I´m more than ready to write some more Byzantine events. If only that damn 1.02 would ever get out with fixed triggers.
 
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