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Nikolai II said:
While I agree that random stab hits should be in the game I don't think it should be to the extent of -4 stab if you don't do something.
(Or if you enjoy seeing Spain actually take out the Incas/Aztecs) But if you want to be able to play France with any sort of challenge, then maybe EU2 is worth a look-see.[/QUOTE]
Spain never takes the Inca's in any of my EU2 games. 2, My France game with EU1 is alot harder then EU2, I absorbed my neighbors uber quick in EU2, you don't have this advantage EU1.
but for a beginner, EU2. For the rest of us here EU1.
Cow Pie said:
Spain: That was my point - in EU1 they manage to do what they should, in EU2 they fail.
France: In EU2 GC France at least has some sort of problems at game start, while in EU1 the only problems I recall was finding enough diplomats to do the necessary annexations...
I only came into this forum by accident. I didn't know people still played the first game! EU1 I had and loved, till EU2 came out. With the latest patches, it is just more polished in every way
the latest tweaks have toned down the rebel thing a bit.
and once you learn some decent stab strategies, like when to invest in stab, and when to move the sliders, and which provinces to convert or vassalise-out, it get much easier to manage; it does becomes second nature.
and once you learn some decent stab strategies, like when to invest in stab, and when to move the sliders, and which provinces to convert or vassalise-out, it get much easier to manage; it does becomes second nature.
I trust neither side. I'll find out when my copy of EUII gets here though and see which I like more.
Maximilian I said:
Amen.
I never played EU1 but I dont like the idea of annexing a huge nation outright.
I bought Victoria but Its to complicated for my tastes and the time period is boring I think.
I don't like the idea of not being able to annex a huge nation outright. The way I see it is, if you don't like the full annexation thing, there's a simple solution for that: don't choose annexation. No AI country is going to be able to try that full annexation on a big country, unless they are much bigger, in which case it seems perfectly feasible for the conqueror to annex its enemy.
I dunno. Annexing a large nation is fine with 20th and 21st century thinking but in the period represented it's ahistorical for sure until the end of the time period.
I've played them both now and I do like the added complexity of EU2, the groovy events and let's not forget the falalalala song!
EU2 does even a more even playing field as well. The big red blob and the big blue blob aren't so gigantic and in a way this makes it easier.
I like them both and depending on my mood I'd play one or the other.
I've played them both now and I do like the added complexity of EU2, the groovy events and let's not forget the falalalala song!
EU2 does even a more even playing field as well. The big red blob and the big blue blob aren't so gigantic and in a way this makes it easier.
I like them both and depending on my mood I'd play one or the other.
Hmmm, guess it depends on your definition of "large nation." There was Turkey's annexation of Hungary (1526) and the Mamluk Sultanate (1517) done with single wars, Russia taking Crimea in a single war in 1787. Having never played EU2, how large does a country have to be to avoid one-war annexation? I say that's good for a "large" country like France but historically inaccurate for a medium-sized country like Hungary. Also, I understand a country must be reduced to one province prior to annexation, so how many provinces can be taken in a single, non-annexation war? Is EU1 limit of 3 preserved? If it is, then EU2's annexation system is definitely ahistorical, as that would require 4 wars for any country larger than 6 provinces!
No, EU2 doesn't have EU1's old peacesystem. You can't annex nations outright, they have to be a oneprovince nation first.
Oh, and IIRC, the annexation of Hungary was more than one war. IIRC Greven lectured someone on this matter early on when EU1 was released. I might be mistaken though.
Oh, and IIRC, the annexation of Hungary was more than one war. IIRC Greven lectured someone on this matter early on when EU1 was released. I might be mistaken though.
zacharym87 said:
No - it uses %ages as cost for provinces and you can demand varying amount of provinces based upon their values, TPs are worth 2%, colonies 4% and then it goes on up until Andalusia CoT worth 40% (and there might be even more expensive ones). You can get 50-80% worth from a nation that you have overrun (and 80-100% worth if it is completely vanquished, including all navies, armies and allies)
So the only nations taking 4 wars or more are the horribly bloated ones - colonial Spain, HRE-Austria and China (Russia if they have actually managed to get into Siberia)
Revolutionary said:
after a lot of playing of EU2 i learned how to manage this a lot better. six months ago i found it very harsh. now im usually at postive stab, just not plus 3.
Yeah Zach, you have good examples but by and large European powers seemed to be content to let their enemies survive after stripping off some territory, contain and weaken them but not remove them from the politcal landscape. AFAIK, it wasn't until Friedrich the Great that powers started to think in terms of removing nations outright but Prussia wasn't exactly a large power either. Poland disappeared after this but was divided among three powers. Then Napolean came but even he kept most of the 'larger' nations intact though he gave serious thought to removing Prussia also. It wasn't until modern times that Europe (the Latin West to be more specific) removed powers but this also happened more because of nationalism (Russian Empire and Austro-Hungary).
The peace system is much different in EU2 and getting more than 2 provinces is easy (getting three can be difficult in EU1 as you know) and battles seem to count for more also. Wars are harder to wage as religion only gives -4 to revolt risk so eight and nine year wars just aren't feasible though maybe if I play around with the DP settings some I can find a way.
I like the DP aspect of the game as I enjoy setting my government the way I want it. I like that enemy provinces in rebellion will leave a nation to join yours if culture is the same. Poor England lost all the main island to Scotland except the capital this way and I got Calais and Poitou this way.
EU2 isn't great in other aspects though. A lot of historical conquests don't happen like the Aztecs and Incas for Spain and so far the Ottomans can't handle taking the Mamelukes out. Governments can't seem to balance budgets and go bankrupt all the time (Spain and Portugal go bankrupt every six months or so) and never disband troops because of it and it seems that support limits don't apply to the AI which is a bit silly, an obvious anti-WC ploy.
It's a fine game and great if you like responsible nation growth. WC people won't like it though and there are a few annoying things like one province minors having huge standing armies that you could never deploy as a player but it's easy enough to diploannex them and disband your new army.
The peace system is much different in EU2 and getting more than 2 provinces is easy (getting three can be difficult in EU1 as you know) and battles seem to count for more also. Wars are harder to wage as religion only gives -4 to revolt risk so eight and nine year wars just aren't feasible though maybe if I play around with the DP settings some I can find a way.
I like the DP aspect of the game as I enjoy setting my government the way I want it. I like that enemy provinces in rebellion will leave a nation to join yours if culture is the same. Poor England lost all the main island to Scotland except the capital this way and I got Calais and Poitou this way.
EU2 isn't great in other aspects though. A lot of historical conquests don't happen like the Aztecs and Incas for Spain and so far the Ottomans can't handle taking the Mamelukes out. Governments can't seem to balance budgets and go bankrupt all the time (Spain and Portugal go bankrupt every six months or so) and never disband troops because of it and it seems that support limits don't apply to the AI which is a bit silly, an obvious anti-WC ploy.
It's a fine game and great if you like responsible nation growth. WC people won't like it though and there are a few annoying things like one province minors having huge standing armies that you could never deploy as a player but it's easy enough to diploannex them and disband your new army.
Play EU2 multiplayer and then tell me Eu1 is better :rofl:
Especially the 2nd Great War of Cross Quill and Sword. 6 years of total war between 2 huge coalitions. Simply not possible in Eu1
Especially the 2nd Great War of Cross Quill and Sword. 6 years of total war between 2 huge coalitions. Simply not possible in Eu1
Sure it is. Get two big alliances, make them fight. On the right settings, it's certainly possible.
Having played 1/2 my first-GC in EU2, here are my humble thoughts on this topic, listed as EU2's pros and cons.
Pro:
--Better Soundtrack
--More nations to play, or alternatively, more nations to annex
--Expanded diplomacy allows force-vasalizations and gives opportunity for gaining CB on just about anyone if you're patient. Also love the military access option
--Events help guide history to approximate real-life (i.e. Habsburg inheritance of Burgundy, Unification of Prussia, etc.)
Con:
--Army matientience out of sight. I've had to radically demobilize twice to keep competitive in tech races. Also, the AI seems to pay 0 matientence (Cologne's got 42,000 men sitting around, I'm ten times their sizer and would go bankrupt in a month if I kept those kind of forces on all my teritories) (OK, granted the AI needs all the help it can get, but still)
--fortress expansion also hideously expensive
--Event guide history to approximate real life even if the AI nations aren't doing what they need to (i.e. Austria inherited Hungary in 1526 despite the fact that the Ottomans aren't anywhere near Hungary. Thus, Austria gets all of St. Stephen's realm instead of the tiny sliver of "Royal Hungary" that they kept in real-life)
--Stability irritatingly difficult to maintain (i.e. mine falls to 0 through some event, then another event comes along and drops it to -2, I shift my research priorities into stability and get it back up to 0 when another event drops it back to -2, I continue to invest, raising stab. to -1, and another event drops it back to -2, it took the best part of a decade to get back into positive territory)
--2 wars needed to take 2-province countries like Granada and Fez (I'm playing Castile/Spain)
Things I'm not sure of yet:
--Missionaries: love the idea, but they're awfully expensive and they fail half the time
--Domestic Policy: I probably just haven't played enough to get the feel of this tool yet (I keep forgetting to move it every ten years :wacko: )
Pro:
--Better Soundtrack
--More nations to play, or alternatively, more nations to annex
--Expanded diplomacy allows force-vasalizations and gives opportunity for gaining CB on just about anyone if you're patient. Also love the military access option
--Events help guide history to approximate real-life (i.e. Habsburg inheritance of Burgundy, Unification of Prussia, etc.)
Con:
--Army matientience out of sight. I've had to radically demobilize twice to keep competitive in tech races. Also, the AI seems to pay 0 matientence (Cologne's got 42,000 men sitting around, I'm ten times their sizer and would go bankrupt in a month if I kept those kind of forces on all my teritories) (OK, granted the AI needs all the help it can get, but still)
--fortress expansion also hideously expensive
--Event guide history to approximate real life even if the AI nations aren't doing what they need to (i.e. Austria inherited Hungary in 1526 despite the fact that the Ottomans aren't anywhere near Hungary. Thus, Austria gets all of St. Stephen's realm instead of the tiny sliver of "Royal Hungary" that they kept in real-life)
--Stability irritatingly difficult to maintain (i.e. mine falls to 0 through some event, then another event comes along and drops it to -2, I shift my research priorities into stability and get it back up to 0 when another event drops it back to -2, I continue to invest, raising stab. to -1, and another event drops it back to -2, it took the best part of a decade to get back into positive territory)
--2 wars needed to take 2-province countries like Granada and Fez (I'm playing Castile/Spain)
Things I'm not sure of yet:
--Missionaries: love the idea, but they're awfully expensive and they fail half the time
--Domestic Policy: I probably just haven't played enough to get the feel of this tool yet (I keep forgetting to move it every ten years :wacko: )
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