Eu2Vic: Feedback and Comments

[Golden_Deliciou]

I converted a couple of other finished games.

An Austrian GC game I converted a while back;
This is MUCH better. My only complaint is that Britain and Russia are both underpopulated. The populations of these areas should be increased by at least 50%. Also possibly North American populations should be increased regardless of whether they are owned by the USA.

Literacy numbers are better than the above, but my comments there still apply for this conversion.

An Age of Mercantilism game as the Dutch;
Obviously this period hasn't received much attention. All the countries outside the Far East have about half the population they should have, and far too many countries are civilised. Khiva and Ethiopia are civilised!

 

[montyP]

Great G_D!!! Here are some comments.

"Gave China + many other territories extra population. China ~100 mil."

This doesn't seem to have happened. China only had 186 million people. What were the other territories? Extra population should be based on multiplying EU2 population, not just adding lumps of extra people.

I have a special modifier for China. Then some lumps of extra population is added, many minorities.

I boosted China even more in later scenarios. But the 1773 and 1795 scenarios are pretty god damn crappy regarding the population in China. There are a lot of territories that have 5,000 pops and a lot that has 10,000 pops. So population in those scenarios are VERY low for China. If we come over 200 mil. I think we should be satisfied?

"Generally cut population in half, except for some areas that get more (China, Korea, Indochina etc.) and some that get less."

Presumably only for early games. I'll convert one of these later to test this. Certainly this change wasn't in affect in this conversion.

Yea, this is true - Only for GC scenario. Was the population generally to high in your game?

"Yankee and dixie population in the USA are doubled."

What about British population? Broadly, not enough people in the Americas as a whole, for late games at least.

Population in NA generally gets a higher modifier than other areas. If USA is formed I think more people would go there, therefore they get extra population added.

"Toned down prestige modifier to 0.05."

Prestige seemed fine.

Great!

"It's now a little bit harder to get civilized in later scenarios."

This is movement in the right direction- a lot more uncivilised countries in this conversion than before. However you could stand to go further. There were still nine uncivs that were civilised this time around- including China, which had been a mess. Civilised China can be game-breaking.

Tweaked it up a little bit more. It’s in the test version that I put up!

"Added Literacy conversion."

For Latin tech group countries this worked just fine- a lot of the literacy values looked like they could have been from the GC. Russia, Ottoman and the uncivs had too high literacy, however. What was the formula used? Perhaps tech group should play a major role.

Reworked the algorithm for literacy conversion. It's in the test version.

An Austrian GC game I converted a while back;
This is MUCH better. My only complaint is that Britain and Russia are both underpopulated. The populations of these areas should be increased by at least 50%. Also possibly North American populations should be increased regardless of whether they are owned by the USA.

What areas in Russia and UK were under populated?

Ireland can if they are haunted by war early on get crippled regarding population. The same goes for some Russian territories.

An Age of Mercantilism game as the Dutch;
Obviously this period hasn't received much attention. All the countries outside the Far East have about half the population they should have, and far too many countries are civilised. Khiva and Ethiopia are civilised!

Increased pop modifier for this scenario.


Put up another test version at the usual place. I added:

* Increased the pop modifier for China + Korea + Indochina + India + NA + "many other areas" in later scenarios.
* Reworked literacy conversion algorithm.
* It's now even harder to get civilized in later scenarios.
* Fixes to "provinces.txt".
* Minor tweaks.

 

[montyP]

Some questions G_D:

Generally, how much of the world is colonized in your games?

How high are the pop levels in the colonies? Is NA colonized early or late?

Are there many trading posts? If there are many trading posts, in what regions are they generally located?


Otherwise, keep the great test results coming!

 

[unmerged(10564)]

Wow... a new version... I'll try to test it.. haven't been playing much lately...

BTW, free cake for everyone here on the forum... it's my birthday today!

 

[montyP]

Wow... a new version... I'll try to test it.. haven't been playing much lately...

BTW, free cake for everyone here on the forum... it's my birthday today!

Congratulations kokomo. I’m sending you a virtual cake!

 

[Golden_Deliciou]

I boosted China even more in later scenarios. But the 1773 and 1795 scenarios are pretty god damn crappy regarding the population in China. There are a lot of territories that have 5,000 pops and a lot that has 10,000 pops. So population in those scenarios are VERY low for China. If we come over 200 mil. I think we should be satisfied?

Sure- I realise there is a big problem with the EU2 scenarios here. It's worth putting effort into this, since as has been noted a lot of people will use the converter as a way of playing a full game starting in the 18th century. Of course, a 200 million China will probably not behave substantially differenlty from a 400 million China.

Population in NA generally gets a higher modifier than other areas. If USA is formed I think more people would go there, therefore they get extra population added.

Migration to the USA up to 1836 was, I think, almost exclusively from the British Isles. So they would be going there regardless of whether it's independent.

What areas in Russia and UK were under populated?

Now there's the $64,000 question. Dunno. I was just looking at overall population.

Ireland can if they are haunted by war early on get crippled regarding population. The same goes for some Russian territories.

This is a scenario I had converted before and the UK and Russia had been fine then. Just that this time they were underpopulated. Further, the Russian problem seems to crop up in most conversions.

* Increased the pop modifier for China + Korea + Indochina + India + NA + "many other areas" in later scenarios.
* Reworked literacy conversion algorithm.
* It's now even harder to get civilized in later scenarios.
* Fixes to "provinces.txt".
* Minor tweaks.

Great! Feedback that works! If only Talonsoft was as responsive as this project.

 

[Golden_Deliciou]

Some questions G_D:

Generally, how much of the world is colonized in your games?

Well in the Austria game, about normal. It's largely hands off colonisation- I only colonised five or six EU2 provinces. In my Dutch game and the "Age of Revolutions" conversion I posted about I think a little more than normal- but not hugely so, because there wasn't that much time to do the colonising.

How high are the pop levels in the colonies?

In EU2 or Victoria?

Is NA colonized early or late?

NA? North Africa?

Are there many trading posts? If there are many trading posts, in what regions are they generally located?

I don't normally build a lot of TPs in EU2, but the "Age of Revolutions" game I converted as the UK was an exception. TPs all over. Also quite a few unfinished colonies.

 

[unmerged(10564)]

NA? North Africa?

North America I think he's referring to

 

[montyP]

Sure- I realise there is a big problem with the EU2 scenarios here. It's worth putting effort into this, since as has been noted a lot of people will use the converter as a way of playing a full game starting in the 18th century. Of course, a 200 million China will probably not behave substantially differenlty from a 400 million China.

Test your latest scenario game with the newest test converter and tell me what you think.

Migration to the USA up to 1836 was, I think, almost exclusively from the British Isles. So they would be going there regardless of whether it's independent.

Well... There were a lot of Germans, Italians and Scandinavians emigrating to the USA during that period. Don't think they would have gone there if it was a British colony.

Now there's the $64,000 question. Dunno. I was just looking at overall population.

It would be great if you checked!

 

[montyP]

In EU2 or Victoria?

Doesn't matter.

NA? North Africa?

No, North America

 

[Golden_Deliciou]

Well... There were a lot of Germans, Italians and Scandinavians emigrating to the USA during that period.

Prior to 1836? I don't think so.

Besides, only 667,000 people migrated to the USA in the period 1820-39 (and likely as much as a third of those after 1836) anyway. I doubt that immigrants and children of post-revolutionary immigrants accounted for more than a million Americans in 1836.

 

[Golden_Deliciou]

Doesn't matter.

Well in Victoria the American colonies are always underpopulated, despite a reasonable number of the provinces being settled.

No, North America

In my British GC, I made sure to colonise as much of the continent as possible as quickly as possible, at least in terms of the coastal areas. The interior I left as other powers couldn't reach it. But the American interior wasn't significantly populated in 1820 anyway.

The 1773 games, North America is pretty much as colonised as historically.

In my other games, I would guess the continent is fairly lightly colonised.

 

[montyP]

Well in Victoria the American colonies are always underpopulated, despite a reasonable number of the provinces being settled.

In my British GC, I made sure to colonise as much of the continent as possible as quickly as possible, at least in terms of the coastal areas. The interior I left as other powers couldn't reach it. But the American interior wasn't significantly populated in 1820 anyway.

The 1773 games, North America is pretty much as colonised as historically.

In my other games, I would guess the continent is fairly lightly colonised.

The reason I’m asking these questions is that the population in a converted game is so closely related to city population in EU2. If North America is colonized late in the game (or only colonized with TPs) the population will be low. If on the other hand it is populated early in the game (with native pop included) the population in a converted game will be pretty reasonable, even high. I had a game were I released USA as Britain very early in the game (around 1750) and let them colonize the rest of the USA. They ended up with a huge population (40 million). So before we raise population modifiers for North America even more I think we should test the converter on some more games, just to be sure on the best modifier.

 

[Golden_Deliciou]

The reason I’m asking these questions is that the population in a converted game is so closely related to city population in EU2. If North America is colonized late in the game (or only colonized with TPs) the population will be low. If on the other hand it is populated early in the game (with native pop included) the population in a converted game will be pretty reasonable, even high. I had a game were I released USA as Britain very early in the game (around 1750) and let them colonize the rest of the USA. They ended up with a huge population (40 million). So before we raise population modifiers for North America even more I think we should test the converter on some more games, just to be sure on the best modifier.

OK. It's just been my experience that North America is underpopulated in all the games I've converted so far. I'll reconvert some others and see if the latest converter is better.

 

[Sute]{h]

Which literacy algorithm are you currently using? My lastest conversion gave Mongolia (using an Uxx tag) a literacy of -2.5%.

 

[Sute]{h]

Also... for some reason there is no machine parts what so ever... the machine parts icon doesn't even exist. Has my uncivilised Inca Empire I've just invented Publishing Industry which should give +5 machine parts, but there is still no machine parts. Is there something I'm missing, or is this a bug in the converter?

EDIT: Surprise, surprise... I did get the machine parts... there just isn't any machine part icon... but when I try to build factories I've got them. But this means I can't import them.

 

[montyP]

Which literacy algorithm are you currently using? My lastest conversion gave Mongolia (using an Uxx tag) a literacy of -2.5%.

I have reworked the algorithm for the next release. It should be much better now.

 

[montyP]

Also... for some reason there is no machine parts what so ever... the machine parts icon doesn't even exist. Has my uncivilised Inca Empire I've just invented Publishing Industry which should give +5 machine parts, but there is still no machine parts. Is there something I'm missing, or is this a bug in the converter?

EDIT: Surprise, surprise... I did get the machine parts... there just isn't any machine part icon... but when I try to build factories I've got them. But this means I can't import them.

I know. This is an oddity. It happens even though a country is given appropriate techs and inventions, and has a machine parts factory. They have machine parts, but the icon never shows. The only way to solve it that I know of right now is to load a GC game and then quit it right away, then load the converted game. Not great, but it gets you machine parts.

 

[unmerged(10564)]

I know. This is an oddity. It happens even though a country is given appropriate techs and inventions, and has a machine parts factory. They have machine parts, but the icon never shows. The only way to solve it that I know of right now is to load a GC game and then quit it right away, then load the converted game. Not great, but it gets you machine parts.

Why am I not surprised having a Paradox game where to load a game you need to quit to the main menu???

That's something that surprised me at Victoria and CK...

 

[maekh]

Why am I not surprised having a Paradox game where to load a game you need to quit to the main menu???

That's something that surprised me at Victoria and CK...

it is a silly change, really. o