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I wanted to say that the AI is still not prioritizing pretender rebels if they risk a personal union. If they're in a war, they will completely disregard the rebels despite losing their PU. Poland-Lithianuia is the biggest offender, if the rebels siege down Vilnius, then the fort will reach full maintenance at level 3 with 3.000 defenders and Poland will never be able to take it back in time.

On top of that, I tagged into to Poland and saw that there's not even a notification of them about to lose their personal union by pretender rebels holding their subject's capital. You only notice this if you go into the stability and expansion screen.
 

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@James Capstick

Gave my feedback earlier. Thanks for the reply. It clarified the situation about republics.

There is a massive bug in beta patch atm. You can kill rulers by attritioning on board a ship. It incurs the stability penalty like normal but it does not incur prestige penalty. this means as castille you can get rid of enrique without prestige hit you normally get for disinherit. My suggestion is to rework it so that you get any penalty you normally would if your leader dies as if it was in battle or disinherited. Leaves ship-killing leaders as a role play element but wouldnt leave theocracies and monarchies in even greater state compared to republics as monarchies can right now semi "design" rulers by killing off useless heirs and theocracies into supermonarch generation with absolutism (especially papal states). With ship killing theocracies dont incur stab hit so they cann endlessly reroll rulers until you get a ruler good enough.
 
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They updated the patch to allow you to take land as long as you've taken the main objective of the CB as well (vassal, PU etc.). It's a fine compromise for me.
Thanks for your answer.
Thats better than before, although I still disagree with it, for example in a PU war, where you "only" have 40 war score or so. Not enough for PU, so you can take nothing at all.
 
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I've tried this new beta version. Playing as Castile, as the wiki says, is for beginners ;). Hmm... In general, everything is very good, but ... There is always a but, but this is very big.

1. Number of forts. Not the ones the AI built itself. And those that the game designers conceived and placed. Which meet you from the very first day of the game. Some of the developers had a lot of fun. Thanks.

In the past, the AI quickly removed most of these forts, and everything somehow stabilized. But now he was taught to protect valuable property. But this property was originally too much. Therefore, the problem was initially, only became noticeable only now. That is, it can only be solved by completely revising the original fort placement design at the beginning of the game.

Why, in my opinion, so many forts is too much. Of course you can play, but it's better to avoid it.

a) Perfect imbalance of placement. Each country has forts at key points. If a country has vassals, then each vassal has one or two forts. If the country is in patches, then each patch has its own fort. If at the beginning of the game the country has vassals, and even it is scattered in patches, it has very, very serious advantages.

For example Morocco. One country, three vassals. There are 6 forts in total, 2 of which are 3 levels. And in Castile there are only 2 (two) forts. Or Burgundy, which had 3 (three) forts on the patch with the capital. I don't even want to talk about France. It was already a super monster, but now.

b) There is no technology to besiege forts, no ideas, no tools like cannons. There is nothing but a dull siege. Due to chance, this can happen quickly, or very slowly. My favorite number is 753 days of siege. It seems that so many forts will give a boost to military traditions, but this is not so. The siege is so slow that all traditions have time to fly away before new ones come. Therefore, with the generals, everything is also sad.

The war turns into a long, tedious and boring series of sieges that seem to go on forever. Sieges eat up the manpower, which is already scarce at the beginning of the game. Because of them, war exhaustion is constantly growing, which is why the speed of the siege drops even more.

I took part in three wars. One with Granada, Morocco and Tunisia. The second against Burgundy, which attacked Liege. And the third with France, which I am angry with for the last game, and therefore I decided to sort it out at the very beginning. Each lasted 5 years.

And please devs remove this idiotic system where after 5 years human player gets "Call for Peace" when they are not a war leader. Until then, it only interfered in this great war of religious leagues, but now it seems to be permanent.

c) Another problem is that if the enemy has captured your forts, it is very, very hard to get them back. So it all comes down to who is faster, who has more forts. It is very important if the enemy cannot physically reach your forts or you can guard them. This also applies to allies. There is no time and resources for skirmishes and battles (the beginning of the game).

It follows from this that the allies should be located close to each other. The alliance of a small state with a big one is always a loss. Whatever the war and no matter how it goes, it is always the first to be occupied, and AI in this case immediately signs the peace. An alliance of a bunch of small states against a big one is useless. Welcome to the world of unstoppable blogging.

2. Allied AI can do amazing things. Since he was taught the basics of economics, he can ask for a siege at level +35, since there is nothing to loot from the province. And go besiege another fort, one where you can profit. This happened twice before my eyes. Since the successful siege of each fort is the key to victory, then for such an escape you want to kill someone.

3. AI knows how to use sea transport, but for unknown reasons, he can sit on the island for years, although there is a war.

4. After a long and hard work on AI, the developers completely intimidated him. AI is afraid of everything and everyone. The slightest superiority in technology, discipline, spacecraft, and when the army approaches, all the enemy scatter like cockroaches. Although they could probably stumble me. No one canceled random numbers, but AI should be 140% sure that they will beat. By the way, allied AI also has a habit of not supporting me in battle, but standing aside.

The AI is so smart, knows so much and thinks so well that even at the very beginning of the war he decides that he lost or won. Those. he categorically refuses to fight. And the war turns into a long and boring series of sieges. It's a game. The AI is just designed for the player to defeat him. And what kind of victory is this, if in order to join the battle you have to run after the enemy for a long time.

If he is so smart, then give him the opportunity to give up right away. Or reduce the threshold of necessary confidence, let it be not 140%, but for example 90%. The desire to save the AI from suicide is understandable, but you should not intimidate him so much.

5. The Hundred Years War lasted 2 years. England declared war, it looked like an event, then the English AI looked at France, estimated the number of forts, the size of the army, and did nothing. The French besieged what they could, for a couple of years they captured all and then waited until the points were ticking. And that is all. And why is this mockery necessary at all. In the current scenario, England has no chance. Even I understand this, and the intimidated AI even more so. France at the beginning of the game is too strong. Either it needs to be reworked somehow, or just thrown out, otherwise it's a mockery.

Some illustrations

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5. The Hundred Years War lasted 2 years. England declared war, it looked like an event, then the English AI looked at France, estimated the number of forts, the size of the army, and did nothing. The French besieged what they could, for a couple of years they captured all and then waited until the points were ticking. And that is all. And why is this mockery necessary at all. In the current scenario, England has no chance. Even I understand this, and the intimidated AI even more so. France at the beginning of the game is too strong. Either it needs to be reworked somehow, or just thrown out, otherwise it's a mockery.

I cannot possibly disagree more.

In 1.30-1.32 we saw France disappearing too many times. Their million useless vassals prevent them getting any decent starting alliances. Austria would almost always get the Burgundian inheritance and France would then disappear because they had absolutely zero chance against Austria-Burgundy-Hungary-Bohemia and whoever Austria would ally. If it wasn't via the succession war, then Austria would vital interest France and attack them.

France needed help. Even with some of the improvements, they're still on 1.33 too scared to attack Brittany and Provence which is rightful French clay.

This change means that if the Hundred Years War fires, France actually manage to get their cores back like they did in real history giving them a better chance against their powerful neighbours.

I have never seen France reach their modern day borders in EU4 because they're always too scared to attack the HRE and the Inheritance usually goes to the Emperor...At least on 1.33 Burgundy now sometimes rivals Austria which means we might every so often get the historical outcome (France annexed the two Burgundies and Picardy in real life).
 
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I cannot possibly disagree more.

In 1.30-1.32 we saw France disappearing too many times. Their million useless vassals prevent them getting any decent starting alliances. Austria would almost always get the Burgundian inheritance and France would then disappear because they had absolutely zero chance against Austria-Burgundy-Hungary-Bohemia and whoever Austria would ally. If it wasn't via the succession war, then Austria would vital interest France and attack them.

France needed help. Even with some of the improvements, they're still on 1.33 too scared to attack Brittany and Provence which is rightful French clay.

This change means that if the Hundred Years War fires, France actually manage to get their cores back like they did in real history giving them a better chance against their powerful neighbours.

I have never seen France reach their modern day borders in EU4 because they're always too scared to attack the HRE and the Inheritance usually goes to the Emperor...At least on 1.33 Burgundy now sometimes rivals Austria which means we might every so often get the historical outcome (France annexed the two Burgundies and Picardy in real life).

I have great respect for your opinion, but... having played 4.5 thousand hours, I can confidently say that I have seen the collapse of France only when I myself put some effort into it.

This is a very curious game in the following aspect. The player has an extremely strong influence on the events in the game world, simply by their existence, not to mention actions. He is like a butterfly of chaos, he will do something simple and harmless, and circles diverge all over the world. Perhaps it was you who provoked the destruction of France by your actions.

I don't know about 1.30, 1.31, but I just dropped the campaign at 1.32 and France was alive and well. True, with my modest help, but she survived on her own. And she returned the territories herself. And you in vain underestimate the power of the crowd of vassals. And in 1.33 it's just a great bonus, they can't make peace.

And by the way, England also did not land, but simply surrendered territories. A long time ago, England always landed troops, though then lost. This fact made it possible to call it a hundred years' war. The fact that England declares war and silently waits for the loss to come turns it all into a big top circus. It would be better if they did the "end of the hundred years war" event so that France would get all its provinces back automatically.

AI was completely intimidated back in 1.32, which led to the fact that in order to start a war he needed 4-5 times superiority. This is the reason why France sat like a mouse, not the fact that she is weak. Any person in the place of AI would simply solve all the problems. But no one ever attacked her. One plus to morality is worth it.

And at 1.33 it seems even worse, Austria at some point almost refused "we have few troops." Because of these forts, the combined efforts of Castile, Aragon, Portugal and Austria won, but very long and tedious. AI wouldn't go for it at all, never. But if the French AI would have been less careful and fought as it should, it’s not a fact that we would have succeeded. Yes, and we almost lost, if the siege of Vienna had been successful, then Austria would have withdrawn from the war, and there were still many forts. But here I was lucky, I managed to raise military technology. And the arrival of 24 thousand to Vienna immediately put to flight more than 30 thousand besiegers.

France is very, very strong, even too much. I can't imagine anyone being able to beat her.
 
The AI is so smart, knows so much and thinks so well that even at the very beginning of the war he decides that he lost or won. Those. he categorically refuses to fight. And the war turns into a long and boring series of sieges. It's a game. The AI is just designed for the player to defeat him. And what kind of victory is this, if in order to join the battle you have to run after the enemy for a long time.
Most times AI will not just sit, it will try to siege some far usless lands-forts. To be fair while this algorithm for AI is on avarage actually good( it dodges fights in order to conserve warscore and waits for situation to change), it is not usssualy best way, it only works if your caountry has high attrition everywhere otherwise you'd better try and fight to deplete your enemy resources more rapidly and if you are lucky it will be dragged to other war. So AI uses low-risk low-revard strategy while humans would prefer opposite. Ideally, I'd say AI should use both strategies, would be even better if it was somehow tied to monarch personality. Buy it is probably too much to ask.
 
To complete what I have already said here:

- TAGs tends to try reaching their FL, except some of them like the Jurchen, for a reason or another. I rarely see Jianzhou with over than 10/12k men even if their FL would allow them to go over that. Meanwhile, Korea steadily maintains 25k to 35k men.
- After a lot of observer runs, Japan is less likely to invade Manchuria early, contrary to what I feared at the beginning. They are still trying to do so by the end of the 16th century.
- The Ming Dynasty Crisis occurs a way too early IMO, a better compromise could be: Age of Reformation +50 years.
- The Ming are totally out of control. I made a panel out of 20 games (spoil below), the screenshots were taken just after the Age of Reformation begins. Why? Because from there the Ming Disaster starts, determining all that will follow (including a potentially too strong Shun, and bordergore).

- You taught AI to dev its high goods value provinces, including coal even if it hasn't been revealed yet. It's kind of good. Kind of only because it sometimes leads to this situation (with an occurrence of about 20%):
IA_Dev_Coal_Instit.jpg

Ming deving for Renaissance...

- One last thing, natives are back at colonizing:
NAmerica.jpg
 
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I'm having fun on the current build, and I think the current fort meta actually works really nicely for the most part, at least outside of the HRE. But I do have a few observations:

1. Weird vassal behavior. Restarting the game seems to have done the trick, but I had a vassal with ~0% liberty desire set to siege down forts just stand around in its own territory during a war. Then rebels spawned in the vassal country, and the troops didn't react despite easily outnumbering the rebels. Restarting seemed to jog the vassal back to life, but that sort of thing has happened two or three times on my current Sirhind -> Delhi -> Punjab -> Rajputana playthrough, with vassals Tsang and Shu, and I don't recall it happening on 1.32. So I think it's just a bug.

2. While I'm rather loan-averse, I don't like the new restriction on Indebted to the Burghers/Merchant Guilds/Jains/whoever not being revocable unless you've paid back all of your 1% loans. I think the -20 hit to estate loyalty and the requirement to have more loyalty than influence in the estate to revoke it are enough to prevent that estate privilege from truly being abused. My preferred solution here would be to have that -5% trade efficiency malus double if you have more than five estate loans active at a time.

3. I'm still seeing an awfully static HRE well into gameplay. While I've been playing in India, Persia, China, and Indochina, I can see that the only major territorial changes in Europe now into the Age of Absolutism have been that Brandenburg got divvied up by its neighbors and a few breakaway states have calved off from Lithuania and the Livonian Order. I theorized this may be an issue with the AI incorrectly calculating the risk of bringing a shared overlord into the war on their enemy's side. The forts may present an alternate explanation, as an early-game OPM doesn't have the force limit to siege down a level 3 fort without calling allies or subjects into the war to help out. Historically, the HRE was too weak and fractious to prevent warring among princes, so while I understand the desire to simulate more realistic early-game expansion, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Not sure how to fix this except maybe don't allow a fort to be built in a country with only one province, or (as suggested upthread) allow some AI personalities to temporarily go well behind their land force limit to win a war?

4. I'm also not seeing the desired results with the Timurids and their vassals. All of Tim's vassals had close to 100% liberty desire for well over a century before finally declaring an independence war — even after Tim had been substantially weakened by wars with, well, me — only once Transoxiana had the support of two great powers. Again, I'm wondering if the AI is miscalculating the risks here either based on Tim's mountain forts or incorrectly calculating that Tim's other vassals would enter the war on the overlord's side even if all of the vassals are allied with one another. This issue dates back to at least 1.32, maybe 1.31, but it appears to have gotten worse in the 1.33 beta as I'm now never seeing Tim's vassals declare an independence war in the early game even when they would definitely win.

5. This is maybe the biggest issue I've seen, given what the patch's primary goal is, and it's that no one took or seemingly even tried to take the Mandate of Heaven from Ming. In my current run, Ming was in full collapse within about 75 years of the game start, and by late in the Age of Reformation, it had been reduced to an OPM in some low-dev province it had taken from Oirat decades earlier. That's all well and good — a rather spectacular Mingsplosion, but as intended. The problem is that while Shun took Beijing, virtually all of North China and Mongolia, most of South China, and parts of Central Asia, it never claimed the Mandate of Heaven. The Emperor of China ceased to exist when Ming was finally annexed by, like, Kazakh or one of the other rump hordes fighting over worthless steppe and desert provinces. As far as I can tell, neither Shun, Qi, Shu, Yue, Wu, Korea, nor any of the other Chinese warlords even attempted to take the Mandate of Heaven. (Entertainingly, at least, AI Lanfang formed for the first time I've seen in a campaign.)
 
I have great respect for your opinion, but... having played 4.5 thousand hours, I can confidently say that I have seen the collapse of France only when I myself put some effort into it.
You beat me in hours, but I have coming up close to 4k hours and I've seen France die a lot post 1.30. You can do a little search on Reddit. I know it may not be the best place but there's loads of examples of France dying to Austria.


This is a very curious game in the following aspect. The player has an extremely strong influence on the events in the game world, simply by their existence, not to mention actions. He is like a butterfly of chaos, he will do something simple and harmless, and circles diverge all over the world. Perhaps it was you who provoked the destruction of France by your actions.

It wasn't. I've told you the scenario.

Austria gets a good Burgundian Inheritance. France suicides into them on succession war. Now the succession suicide war has been patched, but even still, if Austria gets the Burgundian Inheritance they will vital interest France and attack them. France stands zero chance especially if Austria have gotten Hungary for free and PU'd Bohemia.

In a standard 1vs1 it's a fair fight. What tips the balance is just how often Austria gets the Burgundian Inheritance and all the other free stuff they get whereas France is scared to even attack Brittany.

My main beef here is the Burgundian Inheritance and how it works. The state of West Burgundy in game was within the realm of the Kingdom of France. I don't think Austria (or anyone) should be getting all of the Duke of Burgundy's holdings for free.

And by the way, England also did not land, but simply surrendered territories. A long time ago, England always landed troops, though then lost. This fact made it possible to call it a hundred years' war. The fact that England declares war and silently waits for the loss to come turns it all into a big top circus. It would be better if they did the "end of the hundred years war" event so that France would get all its provinces back automatically.

The AI seems more hesitant to engage when it feels it is outnumbered on 1.33 in my experience. I think that's something they should look into.

France is very, very strong, even too much. I can't imagine anyone being able to beat her.

Can you answer my question? Have you ever seen France reach their modern day borders in EU4?
 
Am I the only one who finds it a bit annoying how often my subjects deal with rebels from seizing land?

@BjornB and team, would it be possible get the AI to consider estate loyalty levels before seizing? I really like the change and how much more intelligent the AI is with estates but I think they're seizing a bit too aggressively now.
 
I definitely think something is wrong with the evaluation for declaring independence wars, because i have seen none of them. I have seen Wu and Yue sit at 100% liberty desire under a devastated Ming and refuse to declare. I have seen Sweden supported by a strong Muscovy refuse to declare. I have seen 9 province Wolgast in PU under 6 province Stettin supported by independent Lithuania refuse to declare. I have seen Holland and Flanders stay under 3 province Burgundy. I have seen a massively successful Mughals formed by a Timurids that didn't seem to have had any trouble with vassals.
 
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Can you answer my question? Have you ever seen France reach their modern day borders in EU4?

Didn't I answer? Probably it was lost in a post of many letters. I'm sorry. I have never seen the opposite. Never. Only when I spend a lot of time and energy dismantling France for parts :rolleyes:. France always goes far beyond these borders.

Burgundian Inheritance. I looked at the wiki for a complex event system. In my opinion, the scenario you describe should happen 5-10% of the time. And even less often. Perhaps the outcome depends very much on the presence of the Emperor add-on. There is a vote, which usually decides by majority to forget this problem.

About such a superpowered Austria. I have never seen the PU with Bohemia. The last time even a free PU with Hungary did not work. And usually Austria finds itself allies from small states. And in the latest versions she also loses the title of Emperor in five seconds.

Those. the problem is not in weak France, but in a very unfortunate combination of circumstances that I have never met, but you are constantly faced with this. I told you, the chaos butterfly flapped its wings, and now there is no France.
 
The AI seems more hesitant to engage when it feels it is outnumbered on 1.33 in my experience. I think that's something they should look into.

You're not right. AI takes into account a lot of factors. The difference in Technology, Pips, Morale, CA, Discipline, Professionalism, and also level of Drilling, although last he should not know. Then it calculates the coefficient, how many times there should be more troops for a sustainable victory. According to the latest dev diary, he also takes this into account not only for a separate army, but also for closely spaced ones. And in 9 cases out of 10 decides that it is better to run away.
 
The AI seems more hesitant to engage when it feels it is outnumbered on 1.33 in my experience. I think that's something they should look into.

This is my sense as well. AI tends to be more conservative with the result that relatively fewer offensive wars are being declared. I thought it was telling that in my latest run, my allies were hardly ever calling me into wars up until around tech 13, when the major powers of India found themselves at a significant advantage to SEA states and Ming had lost most of its tributaries. Bengal suddenly started declaring rapid conquest wars in the Burma and Siam nodes. Bahmanis went on an absolute rampage once Malwa and Vijayanagar had been taken down a few pegs, declaring on them or one of their allies or guarantees every few years, but they did practically nothing until I won a few wars against their rivals and left them weakened enough for the AI to take advantage — as it should, of course, but I wonder if they'd still be sitting and staring at each other if I'd just left the Deccan trade node alone altogether.
 
Can't say for sure yet, but very soon! However, as mentioned by Björn, this should be the last batch of changes before the full patch goes live. The idea is that if this beta is stable, this will be the build that we will be pushed live for everyone. Making additional, rushed changes by then could compromise the stability of the patch and introduce new issues (and don't we all hate that...?)
There's a rather serious bug in the old 1.33 beta where allies would sometimes simply fall asleep during war and not do anything with their troops. Has this been addressed?

It would be very unfortunate if this bug made it into the final 1.33 patch. As you can imagine, it is quite game-breaking.