Graphics

[unmerged(5110)]

Is that sapele mahogany?

From a practical point of view, I think that the darker colour is better as it contrasts more with the text. Personally, I'd reduce the amount of red in your colour balance slightly, so it's more of a brown.

Going back to the counters, sorry but I'm not keen: they look "cheap". Maybe it's the white backgrounds? Or the extra lines dividing up the counters? I also think that the flags are too small, at the screen resolution you have to work with. Perhaps try expanding the size of the flag, reducing that of the NATO symbol, and using a darker background?

well the redness seems to scream "cherry" at me... which looks quite nice.

 

[unmerged(18738)]

[shuffles in, kicking at the dirt...]

"What's up, blokes?"

Ok, GwaltneySmokedHams, what is going on that you want feedback on? I read back about 5 pages or so and saw the progression of the interface and current situation with the counters.

 

[Halibutt]

The uppermost version seems great to me. Gwalcmai, what .bmps are part of the interface window? I'd like to give it a try...
Cheers

 

[Gwalcmai]

well the redness seems to scream "cherry" at me... which looks quite nice.

Yes, I chose the red because using brown would probably make it look like old oak, or something similar. And who uses that kind of patterned decoration on oak, anyway?

Files. What I've been fiddling with so far is just Topbar.bmp, Middle.bmp, Bottom.bmp and Top.bmp (I think you can guess where they display). All in gfx\interface. Also setupscreen_bg.bmp (for the save/load/options/etc menu) in gfx\settings. There are also several other minor changes that have to be done, mainly making the background of certain buttons be transparent instead of having a small chunk of the HOI interface. Something that I still have to change is alignment.bmp and war_gauge.bmp (I made a dial like thing for war_gauge, but I have to get a hand pointing at the correct place on the dial. I also have to redo Attackplatta.bmp again, for the combat control box.

Phil, what I wanted was some feedback on the counter design. As StephenT says they look cheap, and he seems to be the most experienced wargamer here, I'm taking that into account. I'm gunning for a redesign, trying to get good visibility on the symbols and the flags. And I thought it best to call on the CORE counter artist for help. Also, what about those nice see-through counters?

 

[StephenT]

Which files are the counters in? And how do you get different counter designs for each nationality?

 

[Soapy Frog]

Also, what about those nice see-through counters?

You mean that's intentional?

 

[Gwalcmai]

Stephen, to change the counter design you have to edit hoi_counter_strip.bmp in gfx\map. That file defines which colour in the indexed palette is used for each of the pixels in the counter. Then, each country has it's own palette, which is used in the game. So, you can define the counter to use colour #3 for the background. Then, if the UK has dark blue as the 3rd colour, the bg for the UK counters is dark blue. If France has red, its counters are red. The way I created the flags was make a block of pixels 18x10 in which each has its own colour. Then, I made palettes for each country whith repeat values for those indexes (Portugal would have i:20 - green; i:21 - green; i:22 - red i:23 - red; i:24 - red... you get the picture). No, I did not hand edit close to 100 palettes. I made a little program that converts raw RGB data into a MS palette file, and just painted the flags.

You mean that's intentional?

Yes, it is. Not that I planned to include them, just thought "wonder if that works" and tried it. The more serious attempts at counter design are a couple of pages back.

 

[Soapy Frog]

I saw, very neat!

 

[StephenT]

Here's my suggestion for a counter design:

 

[unmerged(18738)]

.......

Now THAT... is pretty freakin' sweet.

I am stealing them all for CORE.

(just kidding)...

Now are those shot from a 1024 screen or 800? Because if that is 800, you are going to have a bitch of a time on 1024 in distiguishing unit symbols.

But my hat is off to you guys! You have the nicest HoI stuff I've seen yet.

And no, we won't pillage anything.

 

[unmerged(18738)]

My 2.5 farthings sez, "Do IT!"

 

[Allenby]

Here's my suggestion for a counter design:

Fantastic! Well done, Stephen!

 

[Gwalcmai]

Those flags are 24x13, right? That's 312 pixels, which can't be covered by the 256 colour palette that's supposed to be used. Is there a way to save on colours? Because the way I was doing it, you need one colour index/pixel in the flag. Is there some generic rule that every flag has a run of equal coloured pixels in the same place? Also, you can't use the first index (see-through) the second (shaded see-through) and at least a couple others for the counter colours. In that design, you need one for the black lines, another for the symbol blackground and a third for the counter blackground. So that just leaves 251 indexes for the flag. Either we need to scrape some index requirements off flags, or the best that can be used is around 20x12.

That design also lacks space for the "loaded troops" and "planes carried" symbols (as mine did). And I'm still a bit concerned about the ease of identification of the units. Which doesn't mean that design isn't much more pleasing to the eye than mine.

edit :
The somewhat whimpy counter I designed:

Here's what I mean. See the gradient in the space that's later occupied by the flag? Because I didn't make the generalization "every flag has pixels 20, 21, 22, 23 and 24 the same, I only need one colour there" that 18x10 block eats up 180 of the 256 colour indexes. We can use some more, but until we can make some rules about common colour areas it's hard to break 250 pixels. Less on this design because I eat up some more with the glint in the corner.

 

[unmerged(5110)]

Gwalcmai would it not make more sense to make the flag 18x12 pixels? That way you can get roughly the same 3:1 ratio that HoI has on their 70x44 pixel shields.

Also do you have photoshop? If you don't I can do a batch process to convert all of the HoI shields to 18x12 images and then rotate them. Then I can give you the collection of 18x12 images and you can use your program to make flags for every HoI country...

Oh whoops, but I don't have all the flags for TGW tho;

 

[unmerged(5110)]

Oh also, see what you can do about adding the bevel on the counters to hoi_counter_size.bmp instead of hoi_counter_strip.bmp. If my theory works that will allow you to free up some more palette spaces and thus increase your flag size.

 

[Gwalcmai]

Gwalcmai would it not make more sense to make the flag 18x12 pixels? That way you can get roughly the same 3:1 ratio that HoI has on their 70x44 pixel shields.

That would be 3:2 ratio. But yes, 18x12 would be very workable, but let's first try to scrape together some rules about how to knock off some index needs off flags. For example, it seems like the last third of the mid rows in are a line all the same colour (anyone noticing a problem with this theory, shout out). With a width of 24 and applying to two rows that slashes off 14 indexes (you still need one index/row). Unfortunately, I also noticed that StephenT's flags were 24x14, which adds 24. Net gain +10.

Also do you have photoshop? If you don't I can do a batch process to convert all of the HoI shields to 18x12 images and then rotate them. Then I can give you the collection of 18x12 images and you can use your program to make flags for every HoI country...

Oh whoops, but I don't have all the flags for TGW tho;

I think PSP also does that batch thing. The problem is, the shields have that shading. Hmm, maybe it actually looks good with it? Excuse me, I can see a test run coming.

 

[StephenT]

I've edited the graphics so that the flag is now 20 x 12 instead of 24 x 13 - see picture above. Better?

 

[unmerged(5110)]

Stephen, yes that is better, but I think that Gwalcmai may be able to use PSP to do batch size reduction;

what this means is that he'll be able to get all of the flags for each country to look really nice really small in a way that is fast; i.e. it won't give him carpel tunnel syndrome.

Gwalcmai, about the middle third thing; i'd watch for countries like bhutan, brazil, australia, nepal, new zealand, maybe saudi arabia, maybe even yemen.

 

[StephenT]

The trouble with reducing the size of the existing flag graphics is that they don't shrink "cleanly" - the pixels lost aren't necessarily symmetrical, the program introduces new colours to get an anti-aliasing effect, and you end up with something that looks OK if you squint at it from a distance. While actually drawing the graphics at the correct size lets you control how they appear.

(Of course, I'm not saying an automatic process wouldn't be acceptable when it comes to doing all the flags of all the minor countries!)

 

[Gwalcmai]

Oops, you're right about those flags not allowing that. Good point.

Stephen, you're just much better at this than I am. I just can't fit everything in the counter, let alone making it fit in a way that actually looks like it has space to spare like you did. So, I'll just go with your design. It just needs one thing: the space to fit the icons indicating if the fleet/plane has troops loaded, or the fleet has planes carried (feel free to redesign the icons, of course). In the normal HOI counters, those show up in either of the lower corners. Also, can the unit size stand out more? The darker shades make that hard to see.